Theo van Gogh shot dead!

[thetrooper]

Newspapers here in Norway: Theo van Gogh made a movie about violence against women from muslim communities.

A sad day!

 

[Aggie]

Rik Meleet's link is a good start, but doesn't do Theo van Gogh justice regarding his ideas. He hated the narrow-mindedness of the Dutch. He raised certain topics like the integration of immigrants in Holland and other isseus that you weren't supposed to speak about. He was called a rascist by a lot of people in the early 80's, but in the years more and more Dutch understood that things WEREN'T going great with the newcomers. Pim Fortuyn, a.o. addressed these in the 2002 elections, but got killed (by an animal rights extremist by the way). Theo van Gogh didn't back down and continued to make his points. He made a movie with Ayaan Hirschi Ali about women's abuse in certain Muslim cultures. He got death threats because of this but ignored them. Theo van Gogh didn't expect to live to his 40th year (living the unhealthy life that he did), so he probably didn't care. He died at the age of 47 by the way.

The why? I dare to answer this one. The killer probably acted upon these death threats and thinks that he did a good thing for Islam...

EDIT: Who's next? Ayaan Hirschi Ali?

 

[boogaboo]

He got death threats because of this but ignored them.

Problem is.. police seem to have ignored them either..

 

[AceChilla]

EDIT: Who's next? Ayaan Hirschi Ali?

Probably or Geert Wilders. They are both receiving death threads.

I would be pretty scared if I where them, it seems that you can't say what you think anymore. Everyone voicing the same controversial opinions as Van Gogh runs the risk of being killed. Our society is pretty screwed up, and I have no idea how we can solve this.

The killer had an automatic rifle and shot it empty at the cops following him, and rumours are he slit Van Gogh's throat like they do in Iraq.

 

[Aggie]

boogaboo: He was asked to get police escorts, but he refused... He said that it was ridiculous and didn't feel threatened...

 

[addiv]

And I like Amsterdam, but after I've heard you can't SPEAK anything negative about muslims...
I don't think I go visit soon... I'll have to hide I'm an Israeli and live in fear...
Understand now why Israel is so important to jews??

It's getting pretty bad here, especially in the big cities. There are stories of jews being afraid to go on the street, and just recently a jewish couple was bullied out of their house and are now at a hiding adress.

 

[Aggie]

Let's keep this a topic on Theo van Gogh please. I'm afraid this is going off topic...

 

[storealex]

Boogaboo, get out of your dreamworld. Most of Europe is not dangerous for Jews to be in. At all.

On topic, what's going on in Holland? Used to be such a peaceful place...

 

[boogaboo]

boogaboo: He was asked to get police escorts, but he refused... He said that it was ridiculous and didn't feel threatened...

Srry.. didn't know. Same was for Rabin..

Boogaboo, get out of your dreamworld. Most of Europe is not dangerous for Jews to be in. At all.

True, 8 out of 10 people may be nice, the other 2 may want me dead, so I wouldn't consider it SO safe. Somewhere in the middle..

@all : no means to divert topic.
Please ignore me..

 

[luiz]

That's sad.
And out of curiosity, was he related to Van Gogh the painter?

 

[El Sop]

On topic, what's going on in Holland? Used to be such a peaceful place...

Years of political overcorrectness have screwed up healthy debate and society. It finally has led to more extremism.

Still, it only takes extremely few lunatics to wreak a lot of havoc.

 

[AceChilla]

That's sad.
And out of curiosity, was he related to Van Gogh the painter?

He was a very distant relative.

 

[Aggie]

He was a very distant relative.

The brother of Vincent v Gogh, Theo, was his grand-grandfather.

@El Sop: Indeed one lunatic is enough

 

[Stapel]

Van Gogh has made the movie "Submission", together with Ayaan Hirsi Ali (A female Dutch member of parliament, from Somalian/Muslim descent). This movie is about violence against women in Islamic societies.

After this movie came out, Both Van Gogh and Hirsi Ali were threatened by muslim extremists, mostly via internet. Since then, Hirsi Ali has been protected by the police, but Van Gogh always refused this service. He did fear for the life of his son, but never for his own.
Van Gogh was not a typical muslim extremism basher. He simply bashed anything on his way. Though I'd like to think the Dutch are not that narrow-minded (when compared to other countries), Van Gogh was always fighting the typical Dutch narrow-mindedness. This typical Dutch narrow-mindedness is usually linked to our calvinistic culture, which is rapidly melting away, but still has many features left.
The muslim culture in NL (1 million Muslims here), represents this narrow-mindedness, so it is perfectly logical Van Gogh fought that too.

It wouldn't be the first time I bring this up, but imho it is time we structurally limit the freedom of religion. We should no longer tolerate the public judgement over people, based on religious views. Whether it is Leen van Dijke telling gays are as much sinners as thiefs, or a muslim extremist condemning those who criticise the Muslim culture, we should realise freedom of religion has its boundaries where people are judged or condemned, based on this religion.

 

[Hitro]

It wouldn't be the first time I bring this up, but imho it is time we structurally limit the freedom of religion. We should no longer tolerate the public judgement over people, based on religious views. Whether it is Leen van Dijke telling gays are as much sinners as thiefs, or a muslim extremist condemning those who criticise the Muslim culture, we should realise freedom of religion has its boundaries where people are judged or condemned, based on this religion.

Very well said but still too politically incorrect to be successful.

 

[AceChilla]

@Stapel

Nobody has been shot yet for calling the Pope a gay donkey, or Catholics a treat to society. Christians are being made ridicoulous all the time and none of the people who do that receive treat's to their life, or need personal security. Van Gogh also bashed Christians just as hard as he bashed everyone else, but he didn't recieve treats from people with a Christian background. And it wasn't a Christian who shot him.

The problem isn't religious extremism it's islamic extremism. Or better yet Islamic intolerance of people who disagree with their religion and say it out in public.

 

[MaisseArsouye]

As I think he was not too famous (or notorious) outside NL:

Le Soir wrote an article about him. But I have to admit it's the first time I read his name

Anyway, I think it's a crap and I feel sorry for our dutch friends.

 

[Stapel]

Van Gogh also bashed Christians just as hard as he bashed everyone else,

Indeed he did!

The problem isn't religious extremism it's islamic extremism. Or better yet Islamic intolerance of people who disagree with their religion and say it out in public.

I have to disagree. We simply have very view Christian extremists here in NL, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. History is full of Christian extremism. I don't see a real difference between Christian extremism and Islamic extremism, apart from the fact that Christian extremism has had more time to fade away.

 

[AceChilla]

I think you would have a very hard time to find a Christian in The Netherlands who can't accept that other people have a different opinion than himself. Christians have pretty much accepted they live in a secular society and people can critises them and their ideas as much as they want.

Muslim extremist haven't accepted they live in a secular society and people can critize them. For them people who insult Allah or his prophet are lower lifeforms who can be slaughtered.

In principle both Christian and Muslim extremism can both be equally dangerous , but that's no the case in practise because Christianity has adepted to secular society (at least in Europe), Islam has not.

 

[Aggie]

In principle both Christian and Muslim extremism can both be equally dangerous , but that's no the case in practise because Christianity has adepted to secular society (at least in Europe), Islam has not.

That's a generalisation. Most islamic people in Europe know to seperate them, but sadly not all of them. I know of Christians in certain parts of Holland that haven't accepted the secular society at all. But they are non-violent (they won't kill people with different PoW's).