There is something seriously wrong with my Barbs!!!
- Thread starter Fluxx
- Start date
JBossch
King
Lame. What you mean is they make the game harder. Why not just turn off AIs? They really unbalance the game. You could just play by yourself and win every time!
@TMIT: I think people like events because they make the game more interesting. Obviously Vedic Aryans is broken but I think you are exaggerating how often it occurs. I have seen it hit me maybe twice ever and I play this game a lot. Sure it is annoying when you get that ******** "ambassador commits a faux pas" event but I still get ones Ive never seen before and it helps keep the game interesting.
Ai Shizuka
King
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 856
Don't know about him, but I really dislike a lot of events, both positive and negative.
Negatives: if I . .. .. .. . up a game, it's because of my own errors and not some ******** dice roll. A string of bad events can easily screw up a game if the current diff level isn't completely mastered.
Multiple slave revolts or forest fires in the BCs.
I've had a faux pas making me one AI's worst enemy in the BCs.
Uprisings.
Improvements destroyed.
The absolutely ******** civil unrest: in one of the early MS games (Cathy) I've had library, granary, a cottage, a farm and a mine destroyed. In the BCs.
Free war declaration from that espionage event. Are you kidding me?
Same thing for the positive events.
Free cover promo for melee units.
Free random great people.
Inflation reduction.
If I pick a level I want to play at that level, thankyou. Not a level below. Stuff like free cover can be totally gamebreaking.
I don't care about events if I'm playing below my current level, but I'm far from mastering Immortal (about 40-60 I think). And when playing Immortal a bad combo of events can completely screw my game.
Obviously I'm not trying to convince people to disable them. But events ON by default is poor design, plain and simple.
Negatives: if I . .. .. .. . up a game, it's because of my own errors and not some ******** dice roll. A string of bad events can easily screw up a game if the current diff level isn't completely mastered.
Multiple slave revolts or forest fires in the BCs.
I've had a faux pas making me one AI's worst enemy in the BCs.
Uprisings.
Improvements destroyed.
The absolutely ******** civil unrest: in one of the early MS games (Cathy) I've had library, granary, a cottage, a farm and a mine destroyed. In the BCs.
Free war declaration from that espionage event. Are you kidding me?
Same thing for the positive events.
Free cover promo for melee units.
Free random great people.
Inflation reduction.
If I pick a level I want to play at that level, thankyou. Not a level below. Stuff like free cover can be totally gamebreaking.
I don't care about events if I'm playing below my current level, but I'm far from mastering Immortal (about 40-60 I think). And when playing Immortal a bad combo of events can completely screw my game.
Obviously I'm not trying to convince people to disable them. But events ON by default is poor design, plain and simple.
admtanaka
Warlord
Quoted for truth.
I personally like the change of pace that the events provide, and I'm too lazy to disable the gamebreakers in the XML. Rather than throw away a game though, there's really no harm in just deleting the VAs.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 3,663
It still seems odd to me - my read of the code is that your city is far enough away that it shouldn't be targeted by the barbs (my read of the code is that they aim for the weakest city in a 9x9 square around them - so they should have been going after Delhi anyway...?)
barbs unbalance the game because they are random. you can watch an AIs play and learn how to play against it. you can see the tactics they are programmed to use and adapt to them. you can't do that with barbarians. what is so great about having my warrior eaten by a bear on the tenth turn? how can i stop that? i am fine with having a challenge, but if the challenge is something that i can't prevent from happening, then i turn it off. with AIs i can learn that if i start next to montezuma, then i better build up my army. with barbarians, there is none of that. you don't get any warning when your scout is eaten, or the archer guarding your settler gets killed in some freak 10% battle. and there is nothing that i can do about those things.
just for the record, i also play with huts and events off as well. and they make the game easier.
admtanaka
Warlord
Without barbs, events, or huts, I feel like the game becomes even more formulaic than it already is. On the other hand, by their very nature they also unbalance the game, but mostly to what I feel is an acceptable level (the VA event and some others aside, of course).
I think it's also important to bear in mind that having your warrior eaten by a bear on turn ten or a couple of barb archers more than the AIs is really inconsequential compared to starting BFC variance. Does it really matter if you lose 15 turns of scouting or need to whip a unit or two? How much does that change the game compared to a start with copper, gold, and two irrigated corns? I don't see too many players on the forum playing balanced starts.
I think it's also important to bear in mind that having your warrior eaten by a bear on turn ten or a couple of barb archers more than the AIs is really inconsequential compared to starting BFC variance. Does it really matter if you lose 15 turns of scouting or need to whip a unit or two? How much does that change the game compared to a start with copper, gold, and two irrigated corns? I don't see too many players on the forum playing balanced starts.
JBossch
King
Exactly. Some of us want a challenge. Aside from the stupid vedic aryans event, barbs are relatively predictable as well. If you have a huge land area thats not fogbusted, barbs will spawn. Barb activity is a big part of the difference between difficulty levels. Barb onslaught is what top level players deal with. Turn them off if you want, just don't compare your games to those who play with default settings.
Yep. Play enough games and lack of formula becomes a lot more important than making it easy. Barbs, events and huts forever!
I've always wondered how uprisings work and what triggers them. I used to just think they randomly occurred, but upon reading this thread it seems that's not the case. In any rate, if I was good at modding/knew how to change the XML, I'd get rid of uprisings all together, as they're morbidly unfair. I've been wiped out by them before and I've seen the computer wiped out by them before.
...And, for what it's worth, I especially hate the one where four or swords show up. Though, in the end, I generally just WB uprisings out.
...And, for what it's worth, I especially hate the one where four or swords show up. Though, in the end, I generally just WB uprisings out.
Kwibuss
Warlord
Agree, I try not to use worldbuilder too much, but in this situation I would definately just delete them. Actually if I hear of this event and it isn't near me I look them up and delete them, but usually that spoils too much which spoiled the game anyways.
Damn... why do I have events on? :/
The moment I start using worldbuilder, the end is near 
@ voice
The start was pretty hard already. Think Ghandi's BFC was 6 tiles away from mine to the west, SB's was about 7-8 to the north. Dunno how the event works for real. But you can see I had no time to research both agri/masonry AND archery within the timeline.
@Jbossch
The reason I am most often not playing with Huts on is because the AI starts with 2 scouts, if not 4 at deity?
I will never get a hut or maybe one if I am not playing a civ that starts with hunting. Not only that, but the chance for Willem van Oranje f.e. to get 4-5 random techs from huts means I can almost throw the game away again. (something which I have seen happening).
Huts give you a very different game, and indeed it is easier to play with them off, but when I want to win Immortal on a regular basis I do not want the randomness of huts effect this to much.
@ voice
The start was pretty hard already. Think Ghandi's BFC was 6 tiles away from mine to the west, SB's was about 7-8 to the north. Dunno how the event works for real. But you can see I had no time to research both agri/masonry AND archery within the timeline.
@Jbossch
The reason I am most often not playing with Huts on is because the AI starts with 2 scouts, if not 4 at deity?
I will never get a hut or maybe one if I am not playing a civ that starts with hunting. Not only that, but the chance for Willem van Oranje f.e. to get 4-5 random techs from huts means I can almost throw the game away again. (something which I have seen happening).
Huts give you a very different game, and indeed it is easier to play with them off, but when I want to win Immortal on a regular basis I do not want the randomness of huts effect this to much.
pigswill
fly (one day)
One good thing about early barbarian uprisings is that you get to lose before you've invested too much time in the game 
.
.I think events is very different from huts and barbs.
Versus barbs one can fogbust, or not, but it "spends" units; so it's a strategic decision.
Versus huts one can try to get them faster or not; but it "spends" units; so it's a strategic decision.
Versus events...? If some day i fall in loved by events I shall play roulette instead.
Best regards,
Versus barbs one can fogbust, or not, but it "spends" units; so it's a strategic decision.
Versus huts one can try to get them faster or not; but it "spends" units; so it's a strategic decision.
Versus events...? If some day i fall in loved by events I shall play roulette instead.
Best regards,
DanF5771
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2008
- Messages
- 1,194
The vedic aryan city lemmings can only spawn in unowned plots adjacent to the triggering player's culture, so they start at least 2 tiles away from the nearest city. CvUnitAI::AI_attackCityLemmingMove() lets them switch on tunnel vision and march towards the barbs' target city for this area (as mentioned by TMIT). This is the fundamental problem --> the barbs' current target city can be located at the other side of the continent and belong to another player who does NOT meet the necessary requirements to trigger this event for himself (needs to be able to build the counter units = Archers). The lemmings only detour from the shortest path towards that city if they can attack any city directly. Improvements which could be pillaged don't interest them and units will only be attacked if they block their path.
All players (i.e. the barbs too) have a 12.5% chance each turn to update their area targets. During the updating process there is a 33% chance to set the target city for a specific area to NULL, otherwise the city with the highest AI_targetCityValue owned by a potential enemy will be chosen. For the barbs relevant factors are: high pop, coastal, wonders, holy city, many resources, near other barb cities, RNG. In case of a tie the city belonging to the player with the lower ID "wins" --> quite often the barbs calculate the capital of the human player (ID==0) as their target city...
If the target city is currently unset or it is protected by the Great Wall, the lemmings will head for the city with the highest AI_targetCityValue divided by the necessary pathturns to reach it --> they will most likely attack the nearest city which will most likely belong to the triggering player.
All players (i.e. the barbs too) have a 12.5% chance each turn to update their area targets. During the updating process there is a 33% chance to set the target city for a specific area to NULL, otherwise the city with the highest AI_targetCityValue owned by a potential enemy will be chosen. For the barbs relevant factors are: high pop, coastal, wonders, holy city, many resources, near other barb cities, RNG. In case of a tie the city belonging to the player with the lower ID "wins" --> quite often the barbs calculate the capital of the human player (ID==0) as their target city...
If the target city is currently unset or it is protected by the Great Wall, the lemmings will head for the city with the highest AI_targetCityValue divided by the necessary pathturns to reach it --> they will most likely attack the nearest city which will most likely belong to the triggering player.
look, i've played enough games on immortal to be able to win 90%+ with or without barbs. and seeing as i have no real ambition to try deity, i'm just gonna play what i find fun. and that for me means minimizing the amount of luck and chance involved. sure, there will always be the map and the starting location, but i can't do much about them. barbs, huts and events are things that i can turn off to reduce the luck involved, so i do.
Sincro
Thou hast no Cu, again...
Did I read that first screenshot correctly? Christianity founded in 3445 BC and Taoism in 3385 BC? Theology and Philosophy founded when you are still working on getting basic worker techs? I can see from the screenshot it is turn 68, which implies you are playing at either Epic or Marathon speed. But I utterly fail to see how those two techs could have been gotten by then, let alone 20 or 30 turns earlier.
Is that normal for the higher difficulty levels? I play at Prince level, and I'm sometimes able to slingshot Philosophy or Theology with the Oracle, but that still doesn't happen until 1500ish BC at the earliest. Normally to slingshot either of those two techs I would need to delay the Oracle until 500ish BC.
-Sinc
Is that normal for the higher difficulty levels? I play at Prince level, and I'm sometimes able to slingshot Philosophy or Theology with the Oracle, but that still doesn't happen until 1500ish BC at the earliest. Normally to slingshot either of those two techs I would need to delay the Oracle until 500ish BC.
-Sinc
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Isn't it a bit more likely that the player selected "choose religions"?
And here Tatran posts some proof for us that even after this event is well-documented as being problematic, it's still not been officially patched. I guess they wanted a "you lose instantly" event in the game after all
. Part of the "fun" of events I suppose...but hey. At least it happens early.Events really screw things up, on occasion. Playing Emperor (above my difficulty) the game decided to give me Cover for all melee units. This is playing as Ragnar of the Vikings (aggressive, financial). I capture a capitol with 3 clam, 2 wine, copper, and gold...
After that came the cover-promoted city raider 3 Berserkers..
Spoiler :
After that came the cover-promoted city raider 3 Berserkers..
JTMacc99
That's a paddlin'
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 900
The Barb uprising event can also be a real pisser when it happens to an AI civ. Unlike when it happens to me, I am unlikely to either delete them or start a new game if they show up and destroy another civilization far away.
If the AI civ was on my continent, I'm probably going to be in good shape for the rest of the game if some of that land becomes available to me at my leisure. On the other hand, if it ends up being the French being destroyed and therefore giving Zara an entire continent to himself, I end up getting screwed worse than if it had happened to me.
If the AI civ was on my continent, I'm probably going to be in good shape for the rest of the game if some of that land becomes available to me at my leisure. On the other hand, if it ends up being the French being destroyed and therefore giving Zara an entire continent to himself, I end up getting screwed worse than if it had happened to me.
