Things you *don't* want to see in Civ7 and its expansions

(anyone else notice she goes from being flirty, to looking completely stoned?)

:hmm:

If she ever manages to seduce any of the lame squad that are her fellow leaders, resorting to recreational substances to numb the subsequent ennui is likely her only escape.
 
No one?

Guess it's up to me then.

I loved movement in Civ 6. Speed is much more important than in previous games, as is carefully planning out your route to maximize tiles covered. Also, it benefits a chasing unit over one that's running away, which is a major improvement imo.
I actually agree, but combined with 1UPT it makes strategic (multi-unit) movement painstakingly annoying.

I would support returning to that movement system provided that some form of stacking is implemented, and that ranged units return to "first strike" units, as in Civ 4, perhaps upgrading to 1-tile and 2-tile range with industrial era sharpshooters, then machine gunners.
 
It's annoying because it is slow. But it's good because it's slow. Too often in earlier games, you can basically speed through hills and jungle because you have the occasional flatland that you can use to hop through to get to the next tile.

I think if the map was like 2x wider and 2x taller than it is now, then sure, I would love to have the extra movement allowances, and have a bit more flexibility. But given the maps aren't terribly large, if you let units get those extra movement points all over the place, I think it just makes exploration too easy. It's fitting that it's a struggle to get through the jungle.
I don't know why but your comment reminded me of something I hate about the current movement bonus that roads and railroads provide.

As it is, they reduce the cost of each move. But really, for infantry, there should be no difference between a classical road and a modern pavement. Walking is walking. Same idea for horses. Gallop is gallop, no matter the road (in fact, the horse would probably prefer the roadside grass/dirt). Thus, it follows logically that Civ roads make your infantry into motorized infantry. They're not walking faster, they're getting on trucks/chariots and driving.

Similarly, for railroad, it should make no difference whether you're a tank or infantry, because you're jumping on that train.

Therefore, whether it's roads or rail, all troops should get the same movement bonus. Armor with 4 points shouldn't get to move 16 tiles because cost of movement is reduced to .25 where infantry only gets to move 8.

Irl, it's actually harder to move armor on roads than it is motorized infantry (dramatically higher cost of fuel and greater wear & tear on the road, fewer manoeuvrable intersections, etc).

Consequently, roads and rail should provide flat bonuses to movement. Ex: +0.5 Ancient, +1 Classical, +1.5 Medieval, +2 Renaissance, +2.5 Industrial, +3 Modern, +6 railroad. Bonus is lost when you get off the road/rail tile.
 
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Mountains are passable, even improvable, in Civ3. Roads, railroads, and mines. In the early turns, mountains are very slow to cross.
Taking the high ground imparts key defensive bonuses.

I tolerated impassable mountains in Civ4, because the pathfinding algorithms still worked. I could issue a "go-to" command and be confident that it would work. But both civs and barbarians have been passing over mountains since the classical era, with different rates of speed. Even in modern times, the game had no way to build tunnels.

I really despised impassable mountains in Civ5 because the reasons above. People can, and have, built tunnels through them and built roads on passes among them. The impassable canyons in BERT were eventually crossed by futuristic "hover" units. But the 1UPT broke the pathfinding algorithm for the AI, so we got the sliding tile puzzle.

Civ6 allowed the player to build mountain tunnels with military engineers. Not a bad compromise, but still not as good/conventient as Civ3. Sliding tile puzzles are still problematic for the AI in a way that was not the case in Civ3 and Civ4.

TL;DR - I hope that impassable mountains don't return in Civ7.
 
The problem is that 'you' aren't playing the leader but some sort of god that wears the leader's face as a mask.
This is precisely the point cin a single leader there can be no evolution from one era to another from a monarchy to a republic from an absolute Tsarist state to communism who claims otherwise is an ignorant in history!
 
I don't know why but your comment reminded me of something I hate about the current movement bonus that roads and railroads provide.

As it is, they reduce the cost of each move. But really, for infantry, there should be no difference between a classical road and a modern pavement. Walking is walking. Same idea for horses. Gallop is gallop, no matter the road (in fact, the horse would probably prefer the roadside grass/dirt). Thus, it follows logically that Civ roads make your infantry into motorized infantry. They're not walking faster, they're getting on trucks/chariots and driving.

Similarly, for railroad, it should make no difference whether you're a tank or infantry, because you're jumping on that train.

Therefore, whether it's roads or rail, all troops should get the same movement bonus. Armor with 4 points shouldn't get to move 16 tiles because cost of movement is reduced to .25 where infantry only gets to move 8.

Irl, it's actually harder to move armor on roads than it is motorized infantry (dramatically higher cost of fuel and greater wear & tear on the road, fewer manoeuvrable intersections, etc).

Consequently, roads and rail should provide flat bonuses to movement. Ex: +0.5 Ancient, +1 Classical, +1.5 Medieval, +2 Renaissance, +2.5 Industrial, +3 Modern, +6 railroad. Bonus is lost when you get off the road/rail tile.
These arguments would be true if we were talking about movements of individuals and individual vehicles, but in the game we are not: we are talking about Units of several hundred, thousand, or tens of thousands of men, animals, and vehicles.

Even Roman infantry had a donkey or mule for every 8-man squad to carry the 50-pound canvas tent, cooking pot, and food supplies.
Tang Chinese armies averaged 4 or more civilians hauling supplies for every 'warrior' in the army.
18th century European Armies had an average of one cart or wagon for every 100 infantrymen.
The 1942-45 US Army averaged 47,000 men in each Division Slice - and only 15,000 of them were in the division itself, and only about 7,000 of those were Infantrymen.

In every case, moving large groups of men means moving men, animals, and vehicles, and it is much, much easier on any kind of cleared space - paved or unpaved. Unpaved and rained on, however, has you marching, hauling, or riding through Mud which is Mother Nature's Giant Brake on all movement.

By the way, hard/soft surfaces were well understood by roadbuilders: the Roman Roads had a thin layer of dirt on top of the highest 'surface' layer of stones when they were built, to make the surface easier on pack or draft animals' (unshod) hooves and for the hob-nailed Roman sandals to avoid slipping on slippery stone surfaces and a rash of twisted or sprained Roman ankles.

Railroads are something else: the movement rate has noting at all to do with the rate of the unit, it is based on the capacity and efficiency of the Railroad and so should be a 'standard' distance regardless of the type of unit using it - but that distance might be changeable with later technology, since modern freight trains are both much heavier (10,000 tons is not uncommon) and move much faster than they did 100 or 150 years ago.
 
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These arguments would be true if we were talking about movements of individuals and individual vehicles, but in the game we are not: we are talking about Units of several hundred, thousand, or tens of thousands of men, animals, and vehicles.
A phrase I heard often from superiors (and eventually found myself repeating): "what's the "So what?" here?"
Even Roman infantry had a donkey or mule for every 8-man squad to carry the 50-pound canvas tent, cooking pot, and food supplies.
Tang Chinese armies averaged 4 or more civilians hauling supplies for every 'warrior' in the army.
18th century European Armies had an average of one cart or wagon for every 100 infantrymen.
The 1942-45 US Army averaged 47,000 men in each Division Slice - and only 15,000 of them were in the division itself, and only about 7,000 of those were Infantrymen.

In every case, moving large groups of men means moving men, animals, and vehicles, and it is much, much easier on any kind of cleared space - paved or unpaved. Unpaved and rained on, however, has you marching, hauling, or riding through Mud which is Mother Nature's Giant Brake on all movement.

By the way, hard/soft surfaces were well understood by roadbuilders: the Roman Roads had a thin layer of dirt on top of the highest 'surface' layer of stones when they were built, to make the surface easier on pack or draft animals' (unshod) hooves and for the hob-nailed Roman sandals to avoid slipping on slippery stone surfaces and a rash of twisted or sprained Roman ankles.

Railroads are something else: the movement rate has noting at all to do with the rate of the unit, it is based on the capacity and efficiency of the Railroad and so should be a 'standard' distance regardless of the type of unit using it - but that distance might be changeable with later technology, since modern freight trains are both much heavier (10,000 tons is not uncommon) and move much faster than they did 100 or 150 years ago.
So you agree on railroads, and provide detail, but essentially no counter-argument on roads.

Then what are you disagreeing on?
 
This is precisely the point cin a single leader there can be no evolution from one era to another from a monarchy to a republic from an absolute Tsarist state to communism who claims otherwise is an ignorant in history!

That's why I'd like to see some sort of dynamic system. Changing Leaders work very well to represent pivots in the game. The AI is losing a war? It changes its leaders and gets a new bonus that can stem the tide. Like in Humankind, it allows some sort of change, but it's way more sensible with Leaders than with Civilizations. As a bonus, this allows for "bigger" civs to be better, in that they have more leaders to change into. Flexibility as a bonus. Sometimes this may also include civ-wide changes like Rome -> Byzantine (Or for the sake of playability Byzantine -> Rome), but mostly most elements stay (between f.e. Napoleon, Catherine, Louis XIV, Charles de Gaulle and Eleonore). That makes sense for the AI, but now the player? :)
 
That's why I'd like to see some sort of dynamic system. Changing Leaders work very well to represent pivots in the game. The AI is losing a war? It changes its leaders and gets a new bonus that can stem the tide. Like in Humankind, it allows some sort of change, but it's way more sensible with Leaders than with Civilizations. As a bonus, this allows for "bigger" civs to be better, in that they have more leaders to change into. Flexibility as a bonus. Sometimes this may also include civ-wide changes like Rome -> Byzantine (Or for the sake of playability Byzantine -> Rome), but mostly most elements stay (between f.e. Napoleon, Catherine, Louis XIV, Charles de Gaulle and Eleonore). That makes sense for the AI, but now the player? :)
have already addressed this topic in the topic government is a problem! , this is a big topic for me. The only possible solution is to accentuate the political and ideological aspect of the people and the government.
 
A phrase I heard often from superiors (and eventually found myself repeating): "what's the "So what?" here?"

So you agree on railroads, and provide detail, but essentially no counter-argument on roads.

Then what are you disagreeing on?
Counter-argument on roads is that better roads increase movement of everybody because even infantry on foot or mounted troops on horses at the game scale are accompanied by numerous wheeled vehicles with their heavy weapons, supplies, 'impedimenta' to encompass all the 'tail' they dragged with them. And that's been true since at least the Classical Era.

On the other hand, there were specific military forces/units and Great Generals who could get units to move faster regardless of the baggage they supposedly needed: Thomas Jackson's "Foot Cavalry" or Pliev's Cavalry Mechanized Group whose horse-mounted troops moved faster than the mechanized units. Alexander the Great's 'pursuit groups' of infantry temporarily put on horses with the Hetairoi that ran down Persian mounted forces - lots of examples, point is that perhaps a single turn of Massively Exceeding the Movement Rate could be part of the Great General's general bonus in any Era.

And Railroads are a Singularity Change in movement of everything, including moving the City Radius to everywhere the railroad runs, but that's another topic entirely.
 
I like how CIV VI is kind flexible-ish in allowing the player to win by going either Tall or Wide...though wide makes it easier and faster. My real gripe is watching the AI getting too little punishment for going irresponsibly wide. So I would like for CIV VII to not have AI settling like blind locusts!
 
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I like how CIV VI is kind flexible-ish in allowing the player to win by going wither Tall or Wide...though wide makes it easier and faster. My real gripe is watching the AI getting too little punishment for going irresponsibly wide. So I would like for CIV VII to not have AI settling like blind locusts!
I'd like to have some kind of soft cap.
 
I like how CIV VI is kind flexible-ish in allowing the player to win by going wither Tall or Wide...though wide makes it easier and faster. My real gripe is watching the AI getting too little punishment for going irresponsibly wide. So I would like for CIV VII to not have AI settling like blind locusts!
Iroquois in Civ V!
 
Things I don't wanna see in Civ7, #1: Absurd barbarian rushes.
Spoiler :
I mean, WTH? There's not even any Iron anywhere on my part of the continent.
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- I don't want another pathetic AI.
No AI in 6 felt unique, they all felt the same. Every single one played the same (early aggressive attempt) then just going defensive with no wars once the medieval age started. It really killed the replay-ability of the game for me.

- No more endless deserts and tundra/ice. Its just not fun to play around.
 
Because we can't be too optimistic! Those things can be anything - civilizations and leaders that you dislike, mechanics, design problems, proposed innovations that you think are terrible etc.
Well, heh.... The way things have worked in gaming in the last 6 years, we have to be incredibly flexible and set a low expectation? I'm feeling pretty good about Civ compared to shooters I play.
 
lots of examples, point is that perhaps a single turn of Massively Exceeding the Movement Rate could be part of the Great General's general bonus in any Era.
I really like that.

There probably more instances of wars being determined by swift movement to an advantageous position on the strategic level than there are by brilliant tactics on the field itself winning important battle X.
 
No AI in 6 felt unique, they all felt the same. Every single one played the same (early aggressive attempt) then just going defensive with no wars once the medieval age started. It really killed the replay-ability of the game for me.
I kinda wonder if the AI is written to go defensive, or if it just simply loses all its units once walls go up.

It might be both. I don't know. It might be written to more heavily weigh peace depending on era.

I know from experience it's more likely to attack if it has a higher sum military strength rating and it usually loses half its units in a single siege post-walls. Pick a 5 turn approach with its one ram, while moving 2 swordsmen, 3 warriors and 3 archers into volley range in 2. No catapults. All gone.

Which reminds me of something I don't want to see: ranged attacks from walled cities. AI can't handle it. Can't adjust its gameplan. It picks a city, and because it's unwalled when AI evaluates, bring no siege equipment whatsoever. Chop in walls with a builder and the AI will happily lose 15 units trying to take it. No attrition assessment.

The balance of power walls give to the defender is just way too strong in 6. I can't even imagine a scenario in which the AI could snowball because it cannot clear the wall hurdle. Waaay high attrition rate. Even if the Aztecs manage to conquer 4 capitals in the ancient era, securethrough its eagle warrior ua huge infrastructure advantages, parlays that to a strong tech advantage, and commits to a military victory, it will STILL struggle against walls. Its rate of conquest will be far too slow.
 
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