#this is a coup -- poll: do you think that the EU is now more moribund than ever?

[Kyriakos]

In the aftermath of the very notable - and angry - response to the deal offered to Greece, there has been a clear wave of dismissal, and also contempt, against the deal offered as pretty much a blackmail.

Googling the popular twitter hashtag 'this is a coup' can provide info on what this is about. A Guardian article is the following: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/greek-supporters-social-media-backlash-germany

The hashtag has now been used more than 200,000 times, alongside thousands of angry comments denouncing the demands being made being made of Athens, from reforms of public administration to tax increases and pension cuts.

The campaign was given further impetus when Paul Krugman, the Nobel laureate economist, praised it on his New York Times blog. “The trending hashtag ThisIsACoup is exactly right,” he wrote. “This goes beyond harsh into pure vindictiveness, complete destruction of national sovereignty, and no hope of relief.”

On Monday those behind the campaign thanked the thousands who helped to spread the message. “It trended because of the hope, anger and activism of thousands of people all over the world,” they noted. “They want us in isolation, but they’ll find us united.”

This is a poll asking if you think that the deal offered was abominable to the degree that indeed it is anti-european and will lead to further destruction of the once popular view that the EU would be a force for good for the countries and people in Europe. The IMF again stated publicly that the debt must be cut, or it will never be viable.

So, poll question:

-Do you think that the EU is now more moribund than ever?

Options:

-Yes
-No

Your favorite chewing gun is going to come back in style.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I think Greece messed up and now have to deal with some of the consequences, the rest, EU as a whole has to deal with.

It does show that the leaders of EU and many nations don't have a clue though. Greece shouldn't have been allowed to enter the EZ and the expansion of EU that many leaders are lobbying for is similarly ridiculous. So, EU messed up too, yes.

 

[FriendlyFire]

The IMF again stated publicly that the debt must be cut, or it will never be viable.

You can read the actual IMF report.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2015/cr15186.pdf


IMF report repeatably attributes the Greek economy collapsing due to the actions of the Greek Government, says the Greek government has been Blocking reforms, and the disastrous cost of the confrontation which resulted in capital controls. There also warning against overly optimistic forecast and there are other options other then straight up forgiving of debt.

“Greece’s public debt has become highly unsustainable. This is due to the easing of policies during the last year, with the recent deterioration in the domestic macroeconomic and financial
environment because of the closure of the banking system adding significantly to the adverse dynamics. The financing need through end-2018 is now estimated at Euro 85 billion and debt is
expected to peak at close to 200 percent of GDP in the next two years, provided that there is an early agreement on a program. Greece’s debt can now only be made sustainable through debt relief measures that go far beyond what Europe has been willing to consider so far.

“This is due to the easing of policies during the last year, with the recent deterioration in the domestic macroeconomic and financial environment because of the closure of the banking system adding significantly to the adverse dynamics.”

the significant shortfalls in program implementation during the last year led to a significant increase in the financing need—by more than Euro 60 billion—estimated only a few weeks ago.

The events of the past two weeks—the closure of banks and imposition of capital controls—are extracting a heavy toll on the banking system and the economy, leading to a further significant deterioration in debt sustainability relative to what was projected in our recently published DSA.

Greece is still assumed to go from the lowest to among the highest productivity growth and labor force participation rates in the euro area, which will require very ambitious and steadfast reforms. For this to happen, the Government— which has put on hold key structural reforms—would need to specify strong and credible alternatives in the context of the forthcoming program discussions.

There are several options. If Europe prefers to again provide debt relief through maturity extension, there would have to be a very dramatic extension with grace periods of, say, 30 years on the entire stock of European debt, Other options include explicit annual transfers to the Greek budget or deep upfront haircuts. The choice between the various options is for Greece and its European partners to decide.

 

[gay_Aleks]

200k people are disagreeing with the EU, oh no! There it all goes down, cra-

Huh.

It ain't going anywhere yet.

 

[azzaman333]

The only moribund political entity in that region is the Greek government which has consistently shown itself to be incompetent over a long period of time.

 

[Yeekim]

As I said in the other thread, the deal may indeed have been designed to be rejected.
Somehow, it wasn't.

Greece has brought problems with € into spotlight, hopefully that is the first step in overcoming them.

 

[Zelig]

EU is objectively better than it's ever been, as are most places in the world other than maybe AIDs-stricken Africa, or Russia.

 

[Bootstoots]

I didn't vote because I don't think the EU is "moribund", but I think this debacle did weaken it.

 

[Quintillus]

I voted that yes, it's more moribund than ever, since I think that's accurate... but I don't think it's actually moribund. Just closer to being so than previously. I could very much see Greece leaving the Eurozone, and possibly the EU as well - and those may be necessary economically, as well as for national sovereignty. But I don't think that would lead to the collapse of the EU. There's still plenty of countries that could do quite well from staying in the EU, and no reason to disband the whole union.

My opinion of the situation has changed significantly over the years. At first, I saw it as primarily a Greek problem - caused by overspending and insufficient revenues. And while that was a factor, as time has gone by and the situation has stagnated or become worse, I've come to view the ongoing problem as the Eurozone and the Euro - the EU continues to impose austerity measures, but those have worsened the Greek economy, not improved it. At a certain point the primary problem going forward becomes the non-working imposed austerity measures rather than the initial poor budgeting, and I think that point has most likely been passed.

 

[Agent327]

This is a poll asking if you think that the deal offered was abominable to the degree that indeed it is anti-european and will lead to further destruction of the once popular view that the EU would be a force for good for the countries and people in Europe. The IMF again stated publicly that the debt must be cut, or it will never be viable.

Seeing as the IMF isn't the major creditot to Greece's debts, they can criticize the deal agreed upon as much they like. The real question is if Mr Tsviras will live up to the agreement.

As for the rest of your rant, it's kind hard to follow, seeing as it seems to stem off your thwarted idea of what the EU is. Of which Greece is still a part last I checked and no Greek party will stand for leaving it. Get real.