Timerover51 Naval Mod

[timerover51]

Since I have posted my modding philosophy in the General Discussion Forum, I thought that I might as well start posting some of the mods that I have made for various reasons. This one is focuses on reworking virtually all of the naval units in the game to a greater or lessor degree. The artillery is also reworked, along with changes to Wonders and buildings. The changes are pretty extensive, so I have included a PDF file giving better guidance to all of the changes. There are no added graphics, nor have a changed the Civilopediea file. I have tested both on my Macs and my Windows box, and it runs fine on both. There is no preset map, so that you can load a random map chosen from the opening map screen. It there are any questions by Windows users, I would recommend checking the modified biq. file in the standard editor. For Macintosh users lacking an editor, I will answer questions, and if enough are asked I will post a detailed list of changes.

Comments are welcomed.

 

[da3dalus]

Just downloaded, I'll play it and get back to you in a few days. Thanks timerover51, have a good weekend.

 

[timerover51]

I have noticed something interesting when I play with the setting for this mod. Just about every time I build the Great Library and get a tech with it, I am also getting a Science Great Leader. I am also getting a second one during the Middle Ages on a pretty regular basis. I suspect that it has something to do with the setting combination, but I would appreciate any additional feedback on this issue.

 

[da3dalus]

Hey man, I didn't get as far as that in the game I played, I got sidetracked with other projects in the weekend but I played up until around 1785 AD.

I like how you've upped the naval units abilities, such as making the Curragh equal to a Galley, etc. It makes early expansion feasible on an archipelago map, and if you get stuck on a tiny island, it's not a death sentence. I think it's a little more realistic also, because you see examples in history of mass migrations of people (esp. throughout the Mediterannean) by sea in times before they had galleys (The Sea People raiding Egypt, the Phonecians), and even the Polynesians and their ancestors who were spreading throughout Oceana with basic catamaran style outrigged canoes.

I like also how you upped trade and commerce for sea squares, however the shield production increase makes mining and irrigating almost obselete. I don't *necessarily* have a problem with this, but it does take away the terrain improvement aspect of the game. It would be nice if you could create sea workers (Fishing fleet, etc) which you could assign to permanently work a sea tile therby increasing the shield production.

I did find it very difficult to fight a war however. It seems like defenders are beefed up somehow. I noticed that you upped the HP for each promotion level of a unit, not sure if that is why but it seems that battles I *should* be able to win unmodded are not winnable in this mod, thereby increasing the number of units needed for a successful invasion. This is perhaps something I could get used to, but I certainly found it challenging.

I may keep playing, I'll let you know if I find anything else you might find useful. I've uploaded my last 6 autosaves if you want to check them out, I'll PM you the URL.

 

[timerover51]

Hey man, I didn't get as far as that in the game I played, I got sidetracked with other projects in the weekend but I played up until around 1785 AD.

I like how you've upped the naval units abilities, such as making the Curragh equal to a Galley, etc. It makes early expansion feasible on an archipelago map, and if you get stuck on a tiny island, it's not a death sentence. I think it's a little more realistic also, because you see examples in history of mass migrations of people (esp. throughout the Mediterannean) by sea in times before they had galleys (The Sea People raiding Egypt, the Phonecians), and even the Polynesians and their ancestors who were spreading throughout Oceana with basic catamaran style outrigged canoes.

I like also how you upped trade and commerce for sea squares, however the shield production increase makes mining and irrigating almost obselete. I don't *necessarily* have a problem with this, but it does take away the terrain improvement aspect of the game. It would be nice if you could create sea workers (Fishing fleet, etc) which you could assign to permanently work a sea tile therby increasing the shield production.

With respect to mining and irrigation, for a coastal city, that depends on how many coast and sea squares lie in the city radius. My optimum coastal city is one with half of the city's squares on coast and/or sea, with most of the rest mountains for maximum shield production. However, right now I am playing the mod on two huge continent maps, where the inland cities are heavily dependent on mining and irrigation. On an archipelago map, irrigation may be less critical, but I find that I am always using mining. As for the Sea Workers, I have downloaded a mod that uses them, from the Creation and Customization Forum and I just need to work on it a bit, or do some adapting of ideas from it. it is designed for Play the World, so it needs to be brought up to Conquest standards.

I did find it very difficult to fight a war however. It seems like defenders are beefed up somehow. I noticed that you upped the HP for each promotion level of a unit, not sure if that is why but it seems that battles I *should* be able to win unmodded are not winnable in this mod, thereby increasing the number of units needed for a successful invasion. This is perhaps something I could get used to, but I certainly found it challenging.

I have beefed up the defensive value of cities and defensive positions in general, and boosted the hit points for combat experience. I did not say that this was going to be easy. You may want to look at the changes in the general settings editor to see how much things have been boosted. I did a study for the Marine Corps on urban combat, and thought that it was WAY TOO EASY to take a city in the standard game. The changes bring in more in line with what it should take.

I may keep playing, I'll let you know if I find anything else you might find useful. I've uploaded my last 6 autosaves if you want to check them out, I'll PM you the URL.

I will look at them with interest. Remember, I never said that I made the game easier. I just said that I modified it so that I enjoy playing it. Think about my background of an Army officer, military and naval historian, and someone who has studied all aspects of war from Ancient Times to the Present for about 45 years. What kind of game would I enjoy playing?

 

[just bob]

...

Think about my background of an Army officer, military and naval historian, and someone who has studied all aspects of war from Ancient Times to the Present for about 45 years. What kind of game would I enjoy playing?

Princess Pony Island Adventure? 8D

 

[timerover51]

Pardon the bump. I have been having some computer problems so was not able to play for a while. Windows laptop down, and then iBook froze up, along with not locating the original case with serial number for Mac version of Civ. However, back functioning.

I never really played on a random-generated map this mod, as I always set the map up in advance, making sure my preferred starting location was good. After playing this mod on a generated map, it is hard. I did not get iron until halfway through the Medieval Period, but really lucked out with the saltpeter, as it was only a few tiles away from my capital. I am just short of the Industrial Age, and I dread thinking about coal and oil, much less rubber and aluminum.

Presently, I am in a knock-down drag out with Shaka, Aztecs are ahead on population and area (ARGHHHHHH), but I have a big edge in points. With the map I have, I am building a LOT of armies with generated leaders. That is more of a first for me. I much prefer naval action. Really sinking a lot of Shaka's galleys though.

Note, when I make my own maps, I tend to be generous with resources, including the strategic one, and I will confess to stacking things a bit in my own favor.

 

[Ruskiy29]

Downloaded and trying out soon. So far all of the changes in the PDF have sounded appealing. Especially the Hot Springs improving Tundra, since I like to play on Earth maps and there's typically a ton of Tundra up North .

Did you find that adding Iron 25 or Hot Springs hurt any existing resources? I've previously experimented and found that adding two luxuries made aluminum disappear for me (a fact I was disappointed to discover so late in the game. Had to abandon it).

P.S. Love the Monarchy mod (I do the same for Fascism to make the AI more competitive) and Scientific Boosts. It sounds especially punitive to the lazy AIs (cough cough Japan) that never seem to do research.

Do you find that the AI is more likely to choose Monarchy over Republic in early stages of the game as a result? (mine always choose Republic over Democracy when I boost MP and increase unit support)

 

[timerover51]

Downloaded and trying out soon. So far all of the changes in the PDF have sounded appealing. Especially the Hot Springs improving Tundra, since I like to play on Earth maps and there's typically a ton of Tundra up North .

I got the idea for the Hot Springs from my co-teacher for a World War 2 and Historical Board Gaming class that we teach. His wife is from Iceland, which makes very good use of the hot springs that exist there, between using them to generate power and also heat greenhouses so that tomatoes and other vegetables can be grown all year round. The values are based on TETurkhan's Test of Time oasis.

Did you find that adding Iron 25 or Hot Springs hurt any existing resources? I've previously experimented and found that adding two luxuries made aluminum disappear for me (a fact I was disappointed to discover so late in the game. Had to abandon it)

.

As they are bonus resources, I have not had problems with them. Adding Iron 25 as a strategic resource also has not caused problems. You might want to check out the discussion on the dreaded "32 resource" bug when it comes to Strategic and Luxury resources.

P.S. Love the Monarchy mod (I do the same for Fascism to make the AI more competitive) and Scientific Boosts. It sounds especially punitive to the lazy AIs (cough cough Japan) that never seem to do research.

Do you find that the AI is more likely to choose Monarchy over Republic in early stages of the game as a result? (mine always choose Republic over Democracy when I boost MP and increase unit support)

I have discovered that the AI definitely will choose Monarchy as modded by me over Republic on a very consistent basis. I am considering modifying Monarchy, Republic, and Democracy to try to change that behavior. If I do, I will post the changes, along with an updated Naval Mod.

 

[timerover51]

Again a bump. I have not updated this mod in a while, so here is the latest iteration. I will need to update the changes information as well. I have included in the file packet Pounder's Resource Pack, as the scenario uses that quite heavily. You can run it with the standard resource pack, but you will need to add image for a number of resources. To see my changes more directly, I would encourage anyone who downloads this or the earlier mod to put it into an editor, either the standard Civ editor or Quintullus excellent cross-platform editor.

 

[Ozymandias]

Remember, I never said that I made the game easier. I just said that I modified it so that I enjoy playing it. Think about my background of an Army officer, military and naval historian, and someone who has studied all aspects of war from Ancient Times to the Present for about 45 years. What kind of game would I enjoy playing?

Regarding your question at the last, there: A war gaming pal of mine spent much of our senior year of high school (and beyond) making a WW2 East Front game - at the regimental level! Does this meet with your approval?



(Oh, & I can't wait to check out the updated mod!)

 

[timerover51]

Regarding your question at the last, there: A war gaming pal of mine spent much of our senior year of high school (and beyond) making a WW2 East Front game - at the regimental level! Does this meet with your approval?



(Oh, & I can't wait to check out the updated mod!)

I tried a division-level game for the Eastern Front. The Russians fielded well over 300 divisions, with the Germans and their allies fielding about 130. The counters were a nightmare to keep track of. A division had normally 3 regiments, so multiple those numbers by three. That would be a bit too much for my taste. I do enjoy Panzerblitz, but that is on the tactical level.

 

[Ozymandias]

I loved Panzerblitz! It was the first "modern" tactical game (although it made 81 mm mortars incomprehensibly useless.) Apropos these comments, and your mod, I think that the first game I nearly "drowned" in (pun intended) was the old SPI's USN.

 

[Ozymandias]

BTW, in Terra Fantasia, I give Palaces the "+1 Food In Water" Flag - with, of course, only Seafaring Civs starting with their first City (of course) on a Coast.

 

[timerover51]

BTW, in Terra Fantasia, I give Palaces the "+1 Food In Water" Flag - with, of course, only Seafaring Civs starting with their first City (of course) on a Coast.

The thing about seacoast cities is that throughout history, they could always import food from a distance away, like Rome getting about 100,000 tons of grain a year from Egypt through its port at Ostia. Athens was dependent on grain imports from the Black Sea area. Boosting food for coastal cities simply makes a lot of sense. Long distance transport of grain was not possible with land transport during earlier times. Animals you could drive, but again, the longer the distance, the greater the loss and cost.

 

[Civinator]

A war gaming pal of mine spent much of our senior year of high school (and beyond) making a WW2 East Front game - at the regimental level! Does this meet with your approval?

Early versions of SOE had a regimental setting, too (with naming and locating the units as close to history as possible). The screenshot of a 2007 version of SOE was done from the editor without reinstalling the old graphics of that time:

I later reduced it to divisional settings and cut out the US east coast to speed up the game and for not running into the MUA (that now could be avoided per example by the Flintlock mod).

 

[timerover51]

Early versions of SOE had a regimental setting, too (with naming and locating the units as close to history as possible). The screenshot of a 2007 version of SOE was done from the editor without reinstalling the old graphics of that time:

View attachment 639379

I later reduced it to divisional settings and cut out the US east coast to speed up the game and for not running into the MUA (that now could be avoided per example by the Flintlock mod).

Civinator, could you perhaps explain to this poor ignorant individual what you mean by "SOE" and "MUA"?

 

[Civinator]

timerover51, SOE stands for the WW II scenario Storm over Europe (at present to be reworked) and MUA stands for maximum units allowed on a map
( 8192).

 

[timerover51]

timerover51, SOE stands for the WW II scenario Storm over Europe (at present to be reworked) and MUA stands for maximum units allowed on a map
( 8192).

Thank you very much, Civinator. I did not know that there was a limit to units on a map.

 

[Ozymandias]

Early versions of SOE had a regimental setting, too (with naming and locating the units as close to history as possible). The screenshot of a 2007 version of SOE was done from the editor without reinstalling the old graphics of that time:

View attachment 639379

I later reduced it to divisional settings and cut out the US east coast to speed up the game and for not running into the MUA (that now could be avoided per example by the Flintlock mod).