Tipping at an Indian resturant

[Ansar]

Its also bad to tip when you dont realize it and the restaurant adds a mandatory 15% tip(15% of the full price).

 

[ew0054]

If you work at a resturant where the tips are pooled how would they know if you keep some of it? Like if you get a $5 tip and put only $3 into the pool saying you got $3?

I'm not saying it's nice but if I were making a lot in tips why should I have to redistribute it among those who don't make a lot? Pooling tips is a socialist idea.

 

[Rik Meleet]

(..)I'm not saying it's nice but if I were making a lot in tips why should I have to redistribute it among those who don't make a lot?

Because the chef is not the one who does the financial transaction. The person bringing the food from the kitchen to the table is. Just paying the "transporter of food" extra, but not the bartender/cook/cleaners/etc. who work just as hard.

Pooling tips is a socialist idea.

You mean a good idea ?
Or do you not have knowledge of socialism and just use the words randomly ? Please explain your remark.

 

[WillJ]

If I can repeat a question that has been asked but not answered in this thread: WHY in the world is the customary tip dependent on the price of the food? It doesn't take any more effort or courtesy to serve filet mignon than it does to serve fish sticks.

And hell, why are waiters' salaries determined by tipping, period? You don't ask a roofer to work on your roof, and then pay him whatever the hell you like.

It's all absolute madness, I tell you!

 

[RedWolf]

If I can repeat a question that has been asked but not answered in this thread: WHY in the world is the customary tip dependent on the price of the food? It doesn't take any more effort or courtesy to serve filet mignon than it does to serve fish sticks.

And hell, why are waiters' salaries determined by tipping, period? You don't ask a roofer to work on your roof, and then pay him whatever the hell you like.

It's all absolute madness, I tell you!

I think part of it is because you're generally getting higher calibre of service when the food costs more.

If I go to my local pub and pay $10 for a hamburger I'm being waited on by an 18 year girl who might have 3 months of waitressing experience.

If I walk into an expensive resturant in Niagra Wine Country and pay $50 for a steak my waitress is probably in her late 20's, has been waiting tables for 10 years, is dressed nicely, has an amazing knowledge of the restaurant's menu and wine list and generally provides a superior level of service. Both girls are going to earn the province's minimum wage however one of them is going to make far more then the other due to the price of the food and thus the drastically higher tips.

 

[RedWolf]

Ok I will admit that I have had bad experiences at resturants. Rudeness, as I have described, has always been the top one of them. It totally ruins the night.

I guess you can't quantify the amount of happiness just like you can't quantify current flow from the positive terminal of the battery (imperialistic morons).

I eat out at restaurants probably once a week - my dining experiences run the gamut from pubs, to national family-style chains to expensive european style restaurants.

I can't even remember the last time I received truly terrible service yet you seem to have this happen ALL the time? Don't you think if service was as bad as you claim the establishments would quickly go out of business?

Perhaps your attitude is part of the problem. You have essentially expressed your disdain and contempt for the job they do multiple times in this thread. The "your job is simple now hurry up and serve my needs now wench" attitude hardly endears you to people in the service industry. I suspect you're part of the problem.

 

[RedWolf]

I'll ask you then: Why is it normal that a whole sector of business is paying its employees below minimum wage? In my country it is illegal to pay below minimum wage. That's what "minimum" means, doesn't it ?

I don't disagree with you. I hate the phenomenon of tipping because it puts the onous on customers to pay decent wages to employees. If as we claim our economy is market based and that labour rates are dictated by supply and demand we should force restaurant owners to pay at least minimum wage, remove the concept of tipping and see who still wants to be a waiter/waitress. Probably not many people I can assure you. Wages would increase if restaurants wanted to atrract qualified, professional serving staff.

The problem is the transition would economically shatter people who currently depend on tips so it looks as if we're stuck with tipping. Therefore when I dine out I understand the phenomenon and realize that the staff depend on tips to survive. I generally give 15% for average service and more if service is better.

If you can afford to dine out, you can afford to tip.

 

[Urederra]

If you want the restaurant to pay the same no matter what an employee does, what's their motivation to give good service?

Well, I choose the restaurants I go depending on the quality of the food, not for the service (I go over there to eat, not to be asked how I was doing). The better the food tastes the better I like (quite redundant, I know). Service is not important for me. I don't care if the waiter has a good dress or a not so good one. (I would be nice if she does not have dressed at all, but that would be way more expensive ) I don't care if he/she asks me if the food is good or not. or if he/she tells me to have a good day.

So, if I like the food, I repeat the experience, If I don't like the food, I might repeat another dish or two, and i don't go back any more. And I go to some restaurants so often that the waiter already give me my favorite drink before I ask for, which is nice, but is not a a huge point in the decisiont making process.

I tip, usually 15 - 20 %, because it is the tradition in the US, (if you go to Rome, behave as a roman) I would prefer to have a slightly more expensive meal and don't have to tip. I don't know why waiter's wellness should depend on my tip. I am with Rik M. in this point. The waiters should be paid minimal wages, at least, being paid less should be illegal.

And answering the question of the thread, which nobody has answered yet. I you don't get served in a buffet, don't tip. (it is a buffet, it is self service, after all) But if a waiter gives you water, coffee, etc... leave a buck or two in the table.

 

[Malba]

Well, I choose the restaurants I go depending on the quality of the food, not for the service (I go over there to eat, not to be asked how I was doing). The better the food tastes the better I like (quite redundant, I know). Service is not important for me. I don't care if the waiter has a good dress or a not so good one. (I would be nice if she does not have dressed at all, but that would be way more expensive ) I don't care if he/she asks me if the food is good or not. or if he/she tells me to have a good day.

Service is not only that. Service is also how fast they can serve you the food. Sometimes service is so bad that people that come after you are served before you are. Are you saying that you would go to a restaurant even after they have given you bad service, because they have good food?

 

[sanabas]

And I bartended my way through college so I get the program.

'Tis funny, bouncing never got me tips, behind the bar in the exact same pub does.

Right or wrong it's what we do in the U.S. As you know we still work inches and yards.

Not saying it's easy to change, I'm saying the system you use is insane, and arguments about the superiority of the system you've got in the U.S. are mostly bunk. It's an inferior system, but it stays in place because it's the norm, and needs to be changed en masse, not bit by bit. Quick bit of legislation to say that the minimum someone can be paid is the minimum wage could be a good start.

If a restaurant wants to change the rules and charge more for a meal and compensate their employees more they will fail.
Assuming the restaurant owner paid a larger wage (say 10%) then his costs just went up. In turn, he has to price it into the meal which his competitors have not. As it is, margins are razor thin for most family restaurants and it's why so many fail. Raise their cost and they are guaranteed failure.

Sure, but if I'm a customer and I know that this restaurant is 10% more, but doesn't carry the expectation of a 10% tip, there's no difference in the cost to me. Although if I'm a really tight customer, I'm not tipping in the first place.

As you see we have some people in the U.S. (as we're seeing in this thread) who don't tip. Should the restaurant bear the cost and burden?

Of course the restaurant shouldn't. My point is that if waiting deserves to be paid $10/hour, the employer should actually be paying $10/hour, not paying $5 and relying on customers for the rest. Even if it's the customer's money that's the source of that $10/hour, the customer shouldn't be relied on to provide it directly. If you've worked in hospitality yourself, you know that the mantra of 'the customer is always right' shoulde actually be 'the customer is probably an idiot.' Trusting some of the morons I've encountered and had to be polite to in the course of work to provide half my wages is not an appealing prospect.

 

[WillJ]

I think part of it is because you're generally getting higher calibre of service when the food costs more.

If I go to my local pub and pay $10 for a hamburger I'm being waited on by an 18 year girl who might have 3 months of waitressing experience.

If I walk into an expensive resturant in Niagra Wine Country and pay $50 for a steak my waitress is probably in her late 20's, has been waiting tables for 10 years, is dressed nicely, has an amazing knowledge of the restaurant's menu and wine list and generally provides a superior level of service. Both girls are going to earn the province's minimum wage however one of them is going to make far more then the other due to the price of the food and thus the drastically higher tips.

Sure, but that destroys (what I assume is) the purpose of tipping: letting the customer him/herself gauge how good the service is and tip appropriately. And with the percentage method, once you've chosen a particular restaurant with a particular serving staff, how much you should tip depends on what in particular you order, even though the waiting will be exactly the same regardless. Pretty silly.

I'm assuming you agree with me on my general point about tipping?

The problem is the transition would economically shatter people who currently depend on tips so it looks as if we're stuck with tipping.

Are you saying waiters would be worse off if the tipping system were replaced with a more normal wage system? I find that very hard to believe. If that were the case, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

 

[RedWolf]

Are you saying waiters would be worse off if the tipping system were replaced with a more normal wage system? I find that very hard to believe. If that were the case, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

In the short term I would say certainly yes. Our minimum wage her is $7.25. I believe that "waiter minimum wage" is about $1 less then that.

A good waiter/waitress can make over $10 per hour (with tips) working even in a mid range restaurant. I suspect that in an expensive restaurant they could make probably in the $15 per hour range. And that's why people take those jobs - when you're a single mom, or a young adult trying to pay university tuition - it's a heck of a lot better then working a cash register at Walmart.

 

[Urederra]

Service is not only that. Service is also how fast they can serve you the food. Sometimes service is so bad that people that come after you are served before you are. Are you saying that you would go to a restaurant even after they have given you bad service, because they have good food?

of course I would go. I would rather go to a restaurant that gives me the food I like but bad service that go to a restaurant that serves bad food in a nicely manner.

Edit: ohhhh.... I just remember... .there is this bar/restaurant in the old part of my parents' home town that cooks the best octopus I have ever tried. They also cook mushrooms and prawns very well. I always go whenever I visit my parents. The service is bad, and I was told that the toilets are not very clean, but, i don't care. Food is wonderfully prepared.

 

[WillJ]

In the short term I would say certainly yes. Our minimum wage her is $7.25. I believe that "waiter minimum wage" is about $1 less then that.

A good waiter/waitress can make over $10 per hour (with tips) working even in a mid range restaurant. I suspect that in an expensive restaurant they could make probably in the $15 per hour range. And that's why people take those jobs - when you're a single mom, or a young adult trying to pay university tuition - it's a heck of a lot better then working a cash register at Walmart.

Okay. But I think you might be underestimating the market sensibilities of most restaurants. I'm sure restaurants know how much money most waiters/waitresses make in tips, and they could do away with the gratuity system and change their wage to accurately reflect tip money.

Doing away with tips makes sense in every way imaginable and you know it.

 

[Speedo]

Well, I choose the restaurants I go depending on the quality of the food, not for the service (I go over there to eat, not to be asked how I was doing). The better the food tastes the better I like (quite redundant, I know). Service is not important for me. I don't care if the waiter has a good dress or a not so good one. (I would be nice if she does not have dressed at all, but that would be way more expensive ) I don't care if he/she asks me if the food is good or not. or if he/she tells me to have a good day.

Apparently you've never sat at a table for an hour and a half waiting for your food to be served, or waited 20 min for your glass to be refilled so that you can actually finish eating without choking.

 

[Urederra]

Apparently you've never sat at a table for an hour and a half waiting for your food to be served, or waited 20 min for your glass to be refilled so that you can actually finish eating without choking.

Have you tried asking the waiter to refill your glass?

Edit: hahahaha, nice catch WillJ

 

[WillJ]

Have you tried asking the water to refill your glass?

But the problem is there IS no water!

(Sorry, I couldn't help but comment on that typo.)

 

[RedWolf]

Okay. But I think you might be underestimating the market sensibilities of most restaurants. I'm sure restaurants know how much money most waiters/waitresses make in tips, and they could do away with the gratuity system and change their wage to accurately reflect tip money.

Doing away with tips makes sense in every way imaginable and you know it.

Again - I'm not disagreeing with you. I'd rather that paying a fair wage was the responsibility of the restaurant owner and that waiters not have to depend on the generosity of the customers.

However as mentioned before assuming tipping was abolished people in the short term would see their wages slashed. Longer term, market forces may take over and people would see the wages go back up.

However with this of course would come an increase in food prices as restraunt owners would have to pass the labour costs onto the customers.

 

[WillJ]

However as mentioned before assuming tipping was abolished people in the short term would see their wages slashed.

That's what I was disagreeing with. I think restaurant managers are smart enough to avoid this. Again, they know how much waiters are tipped, don't they?

However with this of course would come an increase in food prices as restraunt owners would have to pass the labour costs onto the customers.

The total cost being paid by customers as a whole would remain the same. The only customers who would have to pay more would be the callous ones who weren't paying tips before.

...But I guess since we agree in the big picture, this discussion is turning rather pointless.

 

[Speedo]

Have you tried asking the water to refill your glass?

Hard to ask when they're nowhere to be found.