Tipping is stupid

I think having a fair and enforced minimum wage, no service charge and a culture of tipping for satisfactory or good service is the best way.

Service charge is just like mandatory tipping, only on a fixed percentage. There's no incentive for waiters to serve you well because they generally get the money anyway. And you don't even know where the money goes!
 
No incentive? Im pretty sure that If I complain, said waiter would get reprimanded.
And isn't the incentive the wages? Good job = wages. Bad Job = Fired
 
Saying that no tips means no incentive for waiters is ignoring the fact that hardly any other occupations involve tips. Incentive comes through wages. Wages = reward = incentive to work. Sure, tips may provide an extra incentive to fully maximise quality service, but they shouldn't make that much difference, assuming workers are being adequately compensated for their work by their employer. Which should be the case (and, yeah, I do understand that this not the case in America, but my point is that that system is stupid).
 
No incentive? Im pretty sure that If I complain, said waiter would get reprimanded.

Who do you have to complain against when everyone's just as bad?

aronnax said:
And isn't the incentive the wages? Good job = wages. Bad Job = Fired

At a crappy wage, I'd have no incentive to do much. Fired? Work for another place. There's a reason why the turnover rate is high. Nobody cares about staying, and there's the whole problem of skill set too. Any idiot can perform the bare minimum of service, but not everyone can do a good job. If all employers want is to pay as little as possible, don't be surprised that scraping the bottom of the barrel is par the course. People with better skills will simply look for better jobs.

Fair wages ensure that this doesn't happen, while a culture of tipping for good service ensures that there's enough incentive to be on the ball. It's a tough job after all.
 
Take your custom elsewhere. If the manager/owner doesn't care, they can expect less patrons. Lower quality = lower demand.

You don't understand. If wages are crap and tipping is non-existent, then who the heck would be motivated to do anything? Why do you think my country has a horrible service sector? There's hardly any place you can go where the service is not simply the bare minimum, if even that.
 
Well, yeah, the problem is low wages, so the solution is higher wages! No other profession depends on the charity of its customers to support its staff's wages, is the point.
 
15% is standard in America at an average restaurant (one where the waiter plays no major role with regard to wine recommendations and such) and 20% at nicer places. More or less for better or worse service, of course.

Keep in mind that the server doesn't keep all of his or her tip. They will give a portion to the busser, the expeditor, the host, the sommelier, etc.

Its easy to dig up a lame after-the-fact justification for your being a cheapskate, though, but we all know you're just a cheapskate!
 
Well I was going to come in here and tear you one for being a cheap sob, but seems everybody has already done so. Start tipping, don't be an ass.
 
Well, yeah, the problem is low wages, so the solution is higher wages! No other profession depends on the charity of its customers to support its staff's wages, is the point.

M hmm.

I think having a fair and enforced minimum wage, no service charge and a culture of tipping for satisfactory or good service is the best way.

Fair wages ensure that this doesn't happen, while a culture of tipping for good service ensures that there's enough incentive to be on the ball. It's a tough job after all.
 
You don't understand. If wages are crap and tipping is non-existent, then who the heck would be motivated to do anything? Why do you think my country has a horrible service sector? There's hardly any place you can go where the service is not simply the bare minimum, if even that.

Well, yeah, I kinda said that I understand the wages are crap and that is the problem. My point is that that system is stupid, so defending the institution of tipping based off that stupidity isn't really a good defence. Other than the fact that it is necessary to ensure the survival of people in those occupations, there is no need for it.
 
Well, yeah, I kinda said that I understand the wages are crap and that is the problem. My point is that that system is stupid, so defending the institution of tipping based off that stupidity isn't really a good defence. Other than the fact that it is necessary to ensure the survival of people in those occupations, there is no need for it.
Zackly!

Tangentially, British employers have increasingly used tips as an excuse not to pay workers minimum wage...
 
Perhaps a better way to think about tipping, especially restaurant tipping, is an ensurer of good service. If your pay directly depends on someone else's satisfaction then don't you think you'd provide more satisfying service?
 
One should bear in mind that occupations which are tipped, such as servers at restaurants or food delivery drivers, do not simply do it for the minimum wage they earn - the people who work those positions are looking to earn greater than minimum wage. After all, no one would bust up their car for minimum wage when they could simply get another job at minimum wage which doesn't involve busting up their car so much. With these occupations, you should realize that their service is only being compensated so much and it's on the customer to compensate for the rest. If this isn't compensated for, you will either see the wages of servers and drivers rise or you will see them put in an auto-gratuity in the bill (which I know is the case in places like Australia).

Many tipped occupations are paid at a sub-minimum wage in states where tip credit is allowed (I believe only 7 states do not allow tip credit and most of them are in the West, like Washington, Oregon, California, Alaska, and Montana - I forget what the other two are), with the expectation that the server or delivery driver will earn enough tips to meet minimum wage and perhaps then some. To not tip under those conditions for even just regular service is quite immoral, especially as the restaurant will assume the server or driver made a tip and tax them based on that even if they aren't tipped (and it is one hell of a process to prove that you didn't make the tip, to which it's not uncommon for an employer to fire the employee under the notion that if they don't make tips, they aren't performing satisfactory service).

Also, you shouldn't kid yourself - tipping most certainly does create an incentive. You can see this play out along racial lines as I've recorded in an unofficial study I did here during my time delivering pizzas and posted here:

http://tipthepizzaguy.com/discussion/thread.php?num=12915&ip=1

The unfortunate thing about tipping is that because the tip is given at the end of the service as opposed to the beginning, the server or driver providing the service will be inclined to recall from experience the demographics of the customers which tipped them and the customers which didn't and they'll start to think in terms of probability regarding this. After all, the notion that blacks do not tip is prevalent among workers of any tipped occupation and the data I collected shows that, when considered as a collective whole, blacks do not tip for perfectly good service 50% of the time (compared to whites which do not tip for perfectly good service about 8% of the time). This leads servers, drivers, taxi cab drivers, bartenders, and many other tipped occupations to engage in racial profiling for it does actually have an effect on the money they bring home at the end of the night, and this of course is very subliminal for the most part as they'll tend to only provide as much service as is required of them. It's why blacks have complained in the past that it's harder for them to get a cab in New York than a white person (for when a cab driver sees a white and black person calling for a cab, who's he going to pick?). If tips do not create an incentive, you'd have to explain why this dilemma exists for the groups who do not tip and why they tend to be treated with less satisfactory service.
 
Tangentially, British employers have increasingly used tips as an excuse not to pay workers minimum wage...

Not exactly tangental -this has been the practice in the US for years.
 
I only tip when I was in the USA for a while, I have never been anywhere else where tipping is customary. I am not used to breaking my cost down to the percentages, so I don't like it, I wish they would just charge a flat fee for te service and include it in the bill.
 
I'm not a waiter but I do sometimes get tipped by thankfull customers for selling them a winning lottery ticket.

Once a guy tipped me as an insult, he had two dollars change and told me to keep it "so you can buy yourself some rhinestone boots" I guess because I had a purple undershirt visible on the neckline of my uniform and I was therefore clearly gay.

I didn't care, as long as they pay me more than a dollar I can take an insult and just smile back at them
 
Well, yeah, I kinda said that I understand the wages are crap and that is the problem. My point is that that system is stupid, so defending the institution of tipping based off that stupidity isn't really a good defence. Other than the fact that it is necessary to ensure the survival of people in those occupations, there is no need for it.

I'm not "defending" tipping. You gotta understand where I'm coming from, and I'm not used to the American system at all. I don't think the job is ever going to pay very highly. It's just the nature of it. Fair wages are good, but let's say a waiter job pays the minimum wage, tipping would still be a good way to incentivise good service. Like I said, it's a pretty tough job after all.

But if you don't want to tip it should be fine. Personally, I do it in the UK because it's just my way of appreciating the service I got. If they got my order wrong or just did things badly, of course I wouldn't be tipping. It's entirely optional and motivated by how impressed you are, which is what it's supposed to be.
 
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