Tipping is stupid

[TheLastOne36]

Pfft... .Tipping is for Rich people.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

How does that work exactly? I use a card alot, its just easier than carrying around cash all the time. How and when does the tip get to the waiter?

At least when my wife and I worked at restaurants (a while ago), your credit card tips would be totaled up in the computer system, and at the end of the day you'd get paid the amount of those tips out of the giant wad of cash you were carrying around from your cash tables (the remainder would go to the restaurant to pay for your cash tables). You'd have to go to the manager/owner to get paid out at the end of the night, and depending on the place, they might keep a portion (since credit card companies skim a percentage of all purchases made with their cards). I don't know if it's legal, but there's a lot of illegal stuff restaurant managers do to waiters anyway so it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't.

Yeah, it's annoying to carry cash around, but we do, and if we have to over-tip a little, that's fine. It's not like we go out much anyway, and when we do we generally know ahead of time.

Cleo

 

[Berzerker]

non-tippers pay less thanks to the people who do tip

 

[I'm Cleo!]

The entire card transaction charge or the portion attributable to the tip?

It depends on the restaurant. (Not where I worked -- I'll have to talk to my wife about her experiences. She's much more strident about the cash tipping thing.)

Oh, and it also helps servers commit tax fraud. I should have mentioned that earlier.

Cleo

 

[Cutlass]

The entire card transaction charge or the portion attributable to the tip?

Credit card issuers take a percent of every transaction made with the card. That's the justification behind some places having 2 prices, 1 with card and a lower one without. And the reason you can't make some extremely large purchases, like say a car, with a credit card.

 

[JollyRoger]

Credit card issuers take a percent of every transaction made with the card. That's the justification behind some places having 2 prices, 1 with card and a lower one without. And the reason you can't make some extremely large purchases, like say a car, with a credit card.

I'm aware of that - I take credit cards in my business. My question was who was absorbing how much of the cost. Let's say a $100 check, with a $20 tip and a 2% credit card fee. That's a fee of $2.40 that, if apportioned, would be a 40 cent reduction of the tip. My question was if the entire $2.40 would be taken from the tip, thus having the waiter absorb the restaurant's credit card fees.

 

[Colonel]

I more often then not when I used to frequented the same place would tip the bill entirely.

 

[TopDog]

How much do meals and drinks cost in the US or other tipping places? If they're much cheaper than here, i would definitely tip.

 

[Shylock]

How much do meals and drinks cost in the US or other tipping places? If they're much cheaper than here, i would definitely tip.

An entree runs about 10 dollars at an average causal family dining place.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Credit card issuers take a percent of every transaction made with the card. That's the justification behind some places having 2 prices, 1 with card and a lower one without. And the reason you can't make some extremely large purchases, like say a car, with a credit card.

You can buy cars on credit cards. I was with my dad when he bought each of our last 3 cars in his credit card. I believe he said that putting it on the credit card gives extra protection in case the cars break down soon after you buy them. I think he said a dealer would give you better protection anyway of the car were new, so it only really makes sense for used ones. These were of course used cars, ranging from $2000 to just under $7000. He payed off the cards in full by the end of the month, so we did not pay any interest on them.

 

[Camikaze]

To be fair, I think it's fine for a restaurant to charge a large group more than a small group. They're more difficult to cater for. Calling it a "service charge" rather than a gratuity would be better though.

But bigger tables are easier to cater for, per person. You have to put just as much effort into five tables for two as you do into a table for twenty. The more individual tables, the more individual orders, the more things to juggle at once. Looking after one big table, however, only really involves doing one round of orders, one round of taking drinks, one round of taking food, etc. Seeing as big groups will generally pay more per person anyway (they hang around longer, therefore buying more drinks), so if anything, there should be a surcharge for small tables.

 

[Yeekim]

I always tip, unless the service is genuinely bad.

Losers who rant about tipping should restrict themselves to McDonalds.

 

[Perfection]

But bigger tables are easier to cater for, per person. You have to put just as much effort into five tables for two as you do into a table for twenty. The more individual tables, the more individual orders, the more things to juggle at once. Looking after one big table, however, only really involves doing one round of orders, one round of taking drinks, one round of taking food, etc. Seeing as big groups will generally pay more per person anyway (they hang around longer, therefore buying more drinks), so if anything, there should be a surcharge for small tables.

You know, you could've read my post about the issue while you were back on that page too, which pretty much demonstrates why it's harder.

Of course, the big thing you should note is that restaurants often charge more for it, and I'm pretty confident that people that run restaurants tend to have a be better at running restaurants then people that don't run restaurants.

 

[Moggy]

Another thing I don’t understand is why do you tip people in some industries and not others? For instance you are going out for a night out with a few drinks and a posh meal. You tip the taxi driver, the barman and the waitress. But why would you not tip bus drivers, the server at the supermarket selling you beer and the student working in McDonalds? You probably tip your paperboy at Christmas but why not your postman?

Waiting staff are underpaid? That’s not really my problem is it? I might consider myself underpaid but I don’t expect my employers clients to send me cash! If you are a waiter and you cant get by on the wages, ask for a pay rise or get another job!

Which I guess makes me a skinflint? Actually no, I agree with tipping good service but this should always always be an optional thing and not something that is expected. Average service should get no tip and really bad service should get a 1p (or the lowest coin in your currency) tip.

 

[Mise]

You know, you could've read my post about the issue while you were back on that page too, which pretty much demonstrates why it's harder.

Of course, the big thing you should note is that restaurants often charge more for it, and I'm pretty confident that people that run restaurants tend to have a be better at running restaurants then people that don't run restaurants.

Yeah -- that's perfectly consistent with my views on tipping. I.e. the restaurant should decide how much they want to charge me!

 

[Camikaze]

Absolutely not, because everything has to be done at the same time. If 20 people order, it'll take like 10 minutes to go through them all, okay in that time, you've pissed off all your other tables. Whereas with 5 tables, you can quick do an order, keep everyone else happy, do another order, keep everyone else happy, ETC.

This (plus seating issues) is why large groups need to have reservations often with a dedicated waiter (because they can't be serving other people because they'd be at the large group for long periods of time).

Let's assume for a minute that on a given night there are 5 waiting staff on. Now let's also assume that they could either have 5 tables for 20 or 50 tables for 2 (or even 25 tables for 2 to make it fairer). For the purposes of this, I'm assuming that the system being used is waiters having dedicated tables, instead of sharing responsibilities.

In the former situation, each waiter will be able to dedicate themselves to an entire table, and serve them adequately, as that is their only responsibility. You may get a big drinks order (which will usually involve a jug of water, or a jug of coke in the place of several individual drinks that would be ordered at a smaller table), but that is all you have to worry about. With a bigger group, people take longer to decide what they want to order. So you have additional time to prepare all the drinks for that table, before serving them, and getting around to ordering before they are even ready. Now, when the food comes out, all the waiter has to do is take it to one location. Which reduces confusion and time wasted on walking to and fro various tables.

Now, in the latter situation, each of the five waiters will each have five tables each to deal with. So, you must juggle multiple orders at once, and somehow fulfil them in a quicker time, due to the propensity of smaller tables to be ready to order in a shorter space of time. Also, the orders tend to be individual drinks orders, instead of say, a bottle of wine to share on a table, or a jug of coke. So, once you have been around to all five tables and satisfied their needs, after forcing them to wait for more than they would like due to their tendency to order faster, you would need to take food to various locations at once, thereby wasting time in the movement from one to the other. Most inefficiencies with regards to small tables come from what you could call frictional loss, as you move between various locations, instead of just to one central point.

It's basically just an economy of scale that comes from bigger tables. You get things to do in bulk instead of many smaller tasks. Chopsticks, for example. On a big table might want ten sets of chopsticks, so you would go get them ten sets of chopsticks (with bowls, of course). However, if three tables for two wanted chopsticks, you would've asked them individually, and therefore would have to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Gimme a bigger table any day.

You know, you could've read my post about the issue while you were back on that page too, which pretty much demonstrates why it's harder.

Of course, the big thing you should note is that restaurants often charge more for it, and I'm pretty confident that people that run restaurants tend to have a be better at running restaurants then people that don't run restaurants.

So restaurants charge more for it because they can, and because people will automatically think '10 people<20 people, this surcharge must be justifiable'. Plus, I work in a Chinese restaurant, so things are a little different again. Banquets with massive plates of fried rice are much easier to cook/serve than smaller individual dishes.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Another thing I don’t understand is why do you tip people in some industries and not others? For instance you are going out for a night out with a few drinks and a posh meal. You tip the taxi driver, the barman and the waitress. But why would you not tip bus drivers, the server at the supermarket selling you beer and the student working in McDonalds? You probably tip your paperboy at Christmas but why not your postman?

I would not tip a bus driver because their job is union. Trust me, they get a very nice wage+perks, with the added "benefit" that they can go on strike if they feel underpaid. Just ask anybody here from Toronto - I'm sure they don't feel like tipping their bus drivers (transit strike) or any other civic workers (ie. garbage strike this summer).

Grocery stores in Canada don't sell beer, so no problem there.

Tipping at McDonalds... when I have to get just about everything myself???

We used to tip the paperboy, but since I don't take the paper anymore, that's not a concern.


Tip a Canada Post mail carrier... excuse me awhile so I can go laugh myself sick...

That's another union job, they can strike whenever they feel like it (which used to be just about every year, coincidentally in December), and fairly often I end up with somebody else's mail and some of mine that I should have received... well, to this day I have no idea whatever happened to it.

Many years ago when we lived in the county, we sometimes tipped the mailman. But we were on a rural route and there were only three homes on our road. Sometimes the mailman would give me a piece of chocolate, and sometimes my mom would make him a batch of cookies.

 

[Moggy]

So Valka the answer is for waiters to get themselves a union?

 

[Fifty]

Let's assume for a minute that on a given night there are 5 waiting staff on. Now let's also assume that they could either have 5 tables for 20 or 50 tables for 2 (or even 25 tables for 2 to make it fairer). For the purposes of this, I'm assuming that the system being used is waiters having dedicated tables, instead of sharing responsibilities.

In the former situation, each waiter will be able to dedicate themselves to an entire table, and serve them adequately, as that is their only responsibility. You may get a big drinks order (which will usually involve a jug of water, or a jug of coke in the place of several individual drinks that would be ordered at a smaller table), but that is all you have to worry about. With a bigger group, people take longer to decide what they want to order. So you have additional time to prepare all the drinks for that table, before serving them, and getting around to ordering before they are even ready. Now, when the food comes out, all the waiter has to do is take it to one location. Which reduces confusion and time wasted on walking to and fro various tables.

Now, in the latter situation, each of the five waiters will each have five tables each to deal with. So, you must juggle multiple orders at once, and somehow fulfil them in a quicker time, due to the propensity of smaller tables to be ready to order in a shorter space of time. Also, the orders tend to be individual drinks orders, instead of say, a bottle of wine to share on a table, or a jug of coke. So, once you have been around to all five tables and satisfied their needs, after forcing them to wait for more than they would like due to their tendency to order faster, you would need to take food to various locations at once, thereby wasting time in the movement from one to the other. Most inefficiencies with regards to small tables come from what you could call frictional loss, as you move between various locations, instead of just to one central point.

It's basically just an economy of scale that comes from bigger tables. You get things to do in bulk instead of many smaller tasks. Chopsticks, for example. On a big table might want ten sets of chopsticks, so you would go get them ten sets of chopsticks (with bowls, of course). However, if three tables for two wanted chopsticks, you would've asked them individually, and therefore would have to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Gimme a bigger table any day.

So restaurants charge more for it because they can, and because people will automatically think '10 people<20 people, this surcharge must be justifiable'. Plus, I work in a Chinese restaurant, so things are a little different again. Banquets with massive plates of fried rice are much easier to cook/serve than smaller individual dishes.

At decent restaurants, its often harder to take one big table. If I have one big table and I want to give them good service, its quite hard, due to timing issues. I mean, merely walking around and giving good wine service to a table of 20 takes a long time (to the point where most of the time one server would never take an entire 20 top). In no good restaurant will service for a big top consist in giving them a couple pitchers of water or coke.

Also, the mandatory service charge for big tables is partially insurance. If one of 5 small tables consists of cheapskates, the server only loses 1/5th of his normal tips during that time. If a big table contains cheapskates they lose the entire thing!

 

[PiMan]

In no good restaurant will service for a big top consist in giving them a couple pitchers of water or coke.

A decent family restaurant will, but "family restaurant" and "good restaurant" don't have much overlap.