TJS1 -- Going on the Pill-age

[Lanzelot]

Sounds like good progress so far. A few comments:

• Before joining Workers, make sure the town (city) is at size 7. Would be a pity to sacrifice a Worker, if the town could as well grow on its own in just 2 turns. And probably we won't need to join a total of 5 Workers into Bergen and Trondheim to get it from 7 to 12: with a granary and +5fpt we could join 3 Workers and let the remaining 2 citizens get born the "natural" way... We only need to remember that once they hit size2, we need to convert those +5fpt into 5 extra shields. (Mining plains and irrigated BGs, planting forest on ordinary grassland or switching tiles with neighboring towns that can make good use of the extra food.)
• Sounds like it's a lot of trouble to set up Yekaterinburg as a 4-turner (Courthouse and Aqueduct...). I'd say just let it do Workers. We have more or less built all the Settlers we want now. The core now has more important stuff to do, Settlers can now be rushed/chopped from crap towns in the boondocks, where needed. (E.g. the two fish towns can easily take care of 2-3 more Settlers for the remaining tundra spots.)
• If the Russian Settler pairs are still running around inside our territory, there is no need to declare on Russia: just make them furious by repeatingly demanding their towns, and then ask them to leave... If you do this, while we are still AVERAGE, it's 100% guaranteed that they will declare on us. So we can enjoy some more war happiness in addition to the luxes we are going to take from them... This should come handy with our plan to boost our cities up to size 12 now...

• I had to make another RoP with Willy (and pay 2gpt)

  ?? When I checked the save, Willy was even willing to pay us for a RoP?! (See my previous post.)

 

[tjs282]

Before joining Workers, make sure the town (city) is at size 7. Would be a pity to sacrifice a Worker, if the town could as well grow on its own in jsut 2 turns.

I did know that already, so I'm just going to assume you emphasised that for Robbus' benefit... Bergen will get to Pop7 this IBT. Trond will be (back) at Pop7 in 7T unless I switch its current Settler-build (which I wanted for the Fish-town) to e.g. a Harbour, in which case it will be at Pop7 in only 3T.

Sounds like it's a lot of trouble to set up Yekaterinburg as a 4-turner (Courthouse and Aqueduct...). I'd say just let it do Workers.

Yup, already decided to do that.

If the Russian Settler pairs are still running around inside our territory, there is no need to declare on Russia: just make them furious by repeatingly demanding their towns, and then ask them to leave... If you do this, while we are still AVERAGE, it's 100% guaranteed that they will declare on us. So we can enjoy some more war happiness in addition to the luxes we are going to take from them... This should come handy with our plan to boost our cities up to size 12 now...

Sneaky. I like it. I'll need to get some (more) Horses up to that front-line first, though, and get the road built to Yaro (3T -- a Worker is already in place, IIRC).

?? When I checked the save, Willy was even willing to pay us for a RoP?! (See my previous post.)

Yeah, but he cancelled our 'Furs for Silks' deal on an IBT. With town-foundings (and town growth?), his Silk-export got more expensive for us, and adding an RoP (and gpt) to the deal was the only way I could afford to renew it, since I had very little income (3gpt, which was 'close to a deal', but not enough in itself), and no lump-sum gold to speak of at that point -- and I didn't want to have to drop SCI% further. But if/when we can found our town NW of Utrecht (and/or capture Moscow + Novgorod), then we'll get Silks (and/or Ivory) of our very own...

Worth putting up CHs in any 2nd/3rd-ringers, do you think?

 

[Lanzelot]

Worth putting up CHs in any 2nd/3rd-ringers, do you think?

In a long running game: always!
In a quick'n'dirty military game: probably not.

So it depends on how well we play and how fast we conquer the world...

 

[Elephantium]

Let's see. We intend to push back the AI a bit with Horsemen, but the REAL action begins with Berserks, cost 70.

35 spt: 2T (LOL)
24 spt: 3T
18 spt: 4T
14 spt: 5T
12 spt: 6T
10 spt: 7T
9 spt: 8T
8 spt: 9T
7 spt: 10T
6 spt: 12T

We should start looking at which breakpoints we can hit with which cities.

Anyone we can coax above 6spt is a win, saving 2 turns on 'zerk production. Similarly, hitting 11 spt doesn't help us above 10 spt.

 

[Lanzelot]

We should build a few more Archers, while we still can, so we have something for upgrading, after we turn off research!
How many Archers do we currently have?

 

[Elephantium]

We should build a few more Archers, while we still can, so we have something for upgrading, after we turn off research!
How many Archers do we currently have?

Only 4 or 5, IIRC

 

[tjs282]

Only 4 or 5, IIRC

Fewer than that now, sorry... But we can build more, in the 13T (or less) before we get Zerks...

Spoiler Turns 125.5-130.5, 50BC to 50AD :

T 125, 50 BC
IBT
Oslo: Worker
Treasury warning!
Carthage begins KT in Sarratha
2 more Arab Archers appear near Kufah

T 126, 30 BC
Worker-jobs assigned first: roading Forests, mining Hills, etc.
Arab Archer-pair needs to be cleared to allow me to 1T-road the sugar to Hareid:
3/4 Archer kills 1st (now 2/4), but 4/4 vHorse dies redlining no.2
Workers moved to Sugar, covered by eArcher and 2nd 2/4 Archer
Settler stopped short of his destination, which was vulnerable to the Archer
SCI% back down to 30%: Eng still in 3T, but +8gpt
Bergen's new citizen Geeked to prevent riot (Pop8 in 10T at +3fpt)
Alesund (3rd-ring at best) switched to building Rax (16T, Pop2 in 3T)
IBT
Abu wants to talk, but will give nothing substantial for peace
Bergen: vHorse (4T)
Reyk: rHorse (4T)
Aarhus (now at Pop4): Duct (25T, Pop5 in 4-5T -- needs MM to rebalance food-box, because I dropped the ball)
Another Arab Archer-pair appear

T 127, 10 BC
Workers build road, and all units outside Kufah retreat across to our side of the border, to heal
eArcher kills rArcher, vHorse kills 2nd, and retreats to OrangeDot, to cover Settler's arrival
Aztec Galley snuck past my 'blockade', so I move 2 Horses back to Trond
IBT
2nd Aztec Galley sunk by ours (1/4)
Oslo: Worker
More Arabs appear

T 128, 10 AD
Workers begin chop near Trond (for imminent Rax-build)
Stav's Worker begins irrigating newly cleared Grass (4T)
Core-Workers start dispersing to the cities they're going to join
Karasjok (OrangeDot) finally founded! --> Rax (20T, Pop2 in 10T)
All nearby units move to defend it from incoming rArchers, but our eArcher shoots itself instead of the enemy. Luckily, the 3/4 Horse kills the 2nd (1/4)
On a brighter note, we can now lower SCI% to 20% for Eng in 1T, and raise LUX% to 10% and put our Pop7-Geeks back to work, allowing me to speed up some Horse-builds
Even better, Feudalism is now known to 4 Civs, so we should be able to trade Eng for it
IBT
Eng --> Feud (SCI=0%, +58gpt)
Trond: Rax (3T, before chop in 1T, growth in 2T)
Cope: 3T-Horse
Stav: 10T Horse
Hareid: 10T Archer
Karasjok pops its corner, giving our Horses a clear run at Kufah (a road will help, though)

T 129, 30 AD
Forest 1T-chopped into Aarhus' Duct (now 21T) --> BGrass exposed!
Archer-pair looks like it's going after the Russian Settler+Spear. Good, they can do the work, we'll take the Slaves
Settler ship-chained to Tundra -- now-healed vHorse covers his landfall
Road completed to Yaroslavl
Stockholm MM'd to finish Horse in 1T, at +0fpt
Workers added to Reyk, Bergen and Cope (2 also fortified in Trond, waiting to join it at Pop7)
Yek MM'd to finish Gran in 5T and grow to Pop5 in 7T
Workers begin 2 Chops near Stockholm -- it could do with a CH, since it will get to Pop12. Also, we need an irrigation path to the west, or the Wheat-farms will stall.
Trond's 2nd Horse sent to K'jok
Iiiiit's trading-time!
Byzzies are richest, so they get first dibs on Eng -- but Dora wants us to pay her for Feud!
Hanni, OTOH, will pay us 94g+16gpt+Feud! We have a winner!
Dora will now pay 198g+4gpt. Thangyuverrymutch, darlin'
Willy and Cathy have no gold to speak of: Cathy will pay Dyes, but I think we'd rather just take those, along with Rostov...
With 333g now in the kitty, and >100GPT raw income, we could drop LUX% to 0% and raise SCI% to 80% for Invention in 10T at -33gpt. But I would rather have some gold for upgrades, so I'll keep us at net income: SCI=50% for Inv in 14T, +13gpt
We're back to WEAK vs Russia -- has Cathy started building Maces and/or Pikes? (Yaro is still garrisoned by a Spear...)
IBT
Arabs attack Alesund: rArcher dies, 2nd rArcher pillages the road I just built *grr...*
Reyk: 3T Horse, Pop9 in 10T before Worker-joins
Oslo: Rax (4T, Pop7 in 2T)
Stock: CH (10T before chops, Pop6 in 10T)
Byzzies begin GWall in Dyrrachium

T 130, 50 AD
2nd Arab Archer trampled by vHorse
Workers working (chopping forests, mining Hills, sent to hook Molde)
Tromso founded by southern Fish -- Settler (30T, Pop2 in 7T)

Spoiler Handover notes :

Towns:
Trondheim is still smaller than our 1st-ringers because of the last Settler-build. It is building a Harbour to avoid shield-overrun -- it will need it at Pop12, anyway, and it can easily build a Rax in 2T at Pop7
I took Bergen off Worker-duty during the 1st half of my set, and Oslo last IBT, preparatory to letting it grow to Pop7 and build military -- but the latter decision can be reversed within the next 2T.
Yek will be ready to take on Worker-production shortly: it is currently MM'd to build its Gran in 4T (at 6spt) and reach Pop5 in 6T (at 3fpt), but can be reassigned for 5fpt(?) on the turn after the Gran is built, build Wealth for 1T, and then start 2T-Workers at Pop5-6 for any necessary jobs, or town-joins
Birka is getting 3fpt but needs 5f to reach Pop5, so MM it next turn (e.g. Yek could use the iBGrass instead)
Our other 'wet' core-towns may now be able to sustain Pop12 with a little LUX%-spending, but I have not yet pumped them up fully, because they are doing a neat 10spt/will finish their builds in 1T with current tile assignments. It may be worth doing this next turn (apart from Trondheim, which should be grown back to Pop7 ).

Workers:
There are Workers available to join to the 1st-ringers in/ near the core (including 2 Workers currrently fortified in Trond). Priority for Worker-joins should go to Cope and Reyk (and later Birka), which are doing only +2fpt; our ex-pumps still have their Grans, and can all still do 5fpt (as can Aarhus, though it has no Gran), so do not need (m)any Workers joined. On the contrary, they could instead build 1-2T Workers/ Settlers when they hit Pop12, to fill in/improve our conquered territory...
Many Worker(-stack)s will finish their jobs this IBT, and of those that won't, almost all the rest (including stacks which have not yet started building roads/chopping Forests) will be finished in max. 1-2T more
Stockholm's chops are intended for a CH. Since it can get to Pop12 without a Duct, it seemed a shame to leave such a potentially shield-rich town at ~70% corrupt...
Workers just finished irrigating near Aarhus can road and mine the Hill, then join the town when it's finished its Duct (20T, but 8T to Pop6 + full food-box). NB the Worker 3-pack and singleton near Reyk were sent there to road those Forests, but you might prefer to chop them!

Military:
During my set (partly/wholly due to my lack of competence with the military side of this game, TBH) I never succeeded in assembling a healthy enough stack for long enough to be sure of taking Kufah in 1T, so it's still Arab. (Every time I got close, another pile of Arab Archers appeared in the open within shooting-range -- they never attacked my stacks, though). I suffered a couple of unit-losses vs. the Arabs' 7 or 8 (wasn't counting -- but everything that appeared, I killed)
That said, there is now a fairly healthy garrison in Alesund (and more Horses due to finish this IBT), but ideally we need to rebuild the (pillaged) road from there to Kufah to minimise move-wastage (the Worker-stacks near Molde can build 1T-roads, then head south again). Kufah could/should be ours in 2-3T, max.
I also started garrisoning Horses near the Russian border, just in case of sneak-attacks: we are back to WEAK against Cathy (she has Feud and Iron, so it's possible she's building Maces), so I did not do Lanz's trick of forcing a DoW yet. She still has 2 Spear+Settler pairs on our turf (near Haried and Trondheim) and no RoP, so that's 4 free Slaves whenever we want them. (Willy also has a Horse+Settler near Bodo, but I expect he'll head north now that the southern Tundra is nearly filled with our Culture)
The Galley-pair east of Copenhagen is there to stop the Aztecs sailing to Trondheim/ Reyk/ points south. There is a Horse in Trond and another in Cope ready to repel landings.

Science:
After selling them Eng, Hanni and Dora are paying us some nice gpt (we got Feud and >300g too). Carthage knows Chivalry, and others are likely researching it. We are now researching Invention (due in 13T) at SCI%=50% and +17gpt. We could do it ~50% faster (9T) with 'maximum' deficit-spending (i.e. no. of turns needed * gold per turn expenditure = total gold reserve), but would then have no cash left to upgrade any Archers we might build between now and then. If we're going to build Zerks from scratch, that's not an issue -- but we might want to start building Archers 2T before Invention comes in, so we at least have a 20s headstart on the Zerk-builds. OTOH, once we put SCI% to zero, we will likely be making >150gpt, even before our GA starts, and more if we build Markets in our Pop12ers (which will boost our Lux-happiness as well, once we start conquering Russia -- they have Ivory and Dyes).

Wonders:
There are many under construction all over the world -- I expect a major cascade soon.
I have not started a Leos prebuild, since it would seem that we're not building Wonders ourselves during this SG (unless with an SGL) but if we decided we want it, I would suggest Bergen at Pop12 to do it (or Stockholm, but its chops-in-progress should then either be switched off, or diverted into something else first)...

 

[Lanzelot]

Fewer than that now, sorry...

At the moment it's 4 Archers again... Still convinced that Leonardo's is useful for us...?
Let me tell you: even if we would get another SGL now, I would not use it for Leonardo's... The Hanging Gardens would give us much more gold in the long run.

It is building a Harbour to avoid shield-overrun -- it will need it at Pop12, anyway, and it can easily build a Rax in 2T at Pop7

Atm the Rax is still logged in. The next player will have to change that in the preflight, in order to avoid the shield-overrun. But instead of a Harbor, let me suggest a Marketplace. A Market will be needed in any case, while it is not yet clear, whether Trondheim will need a Harbor at all: all the coastal tiles could be worked by Copenhagen and Reykjavik. And if we give Trondheim 12 land tiles, we can get it to 20spt: 2 furs, 3 BGs, 5 grasslands and 2 forests give together with the city center 20 shields and 24 food. Then Trondheim could build Berzerks in 3 turns by short-rushing a Settler for 40g after turn 1.
This reminds me: the worker that started a mine 1NE of Trondheim should plant a forest instead.

I took Bergen off Worker-duty during the 1st half of my set, and Oslo last IBT, preparatory to letting it grow to Pop7 and build military -- but the latter decision can be reversed within the next 2T.

Oslo should keep pumping Workers. We still need many more of them. Stavanger needs more attention, and other Workers could go straight to T'heim, Copenhagen, Reykjavik for joining.

BTW: please, please, don't move a full stack of 3 Workers onto a new tile just for building a road! We don't have that many Wokers that we could afford that kind of waste...

The Russians have iron connected, so we need to hurry now, if we want to make a dent with Horsemen... (If we are not already too late.) First target should be the iron resource near Novgorod.

PS: I guess it is not feasible to start a Russian campaign on time, we have 10 Horses, which would be enough, but they are too much scattered around. Instead I suggest to send one Horse to Novgorod (via Dutch territory), and once it arrives, we let the Russians declare war and immeditately pillage their iron. We may lose a Horse, but won't have to face that many Pikes.

Also vote for faster research (maybe even 100%?!). It makes better use of our Library, and by the time Invention is finished, we'll have the first Marketplaces online and can earn new cash.

 

[choxorn]

Copenhagen isn't growing right now, which isn't good, so either we should join some workers to get it bigger or reassign some tiles, slowing production of Horses there a bit but allowing it to grow again.

 

[tjs282]

BTW: please, please, don't move a full stack of 3 Workers onto a new tile just for building a road! We don't have that many Wokers that we could afford that kind of waste...

Pretty sure that we have more than 2 Workers per town, all of which we're paying 2gpt for...

That said, I wouldn't usually stack-road, and yeah, the Workers who were out near the western fringes could have roaded Plains 1 Worker at a time instead, but without access to water, we couldn't have irrigated those tiles until Electricity. Also, with (still) so little military, I didn't want to spread those fringe-Workers out too widely, since I wouldn't have then been able to defend them (at least 3 of them were previously roading near Kufah/Hareid, and the Arabs were throwing Archers at me every couple of turns). So I figured to road those tiles quickly to hook the new towns to the core and each other (and for fast movement from the Arab to the Russian front after we take Kufah), then move them back towards Stockholm, to water the west after Stockholm's western Forest gets chopped+irrigated.

Yes, Stav needs (a lot) more attention, but I didn't want to move too many Workers up there, before our imminent Pop12ers had their tiles improved -- and also Stav will be a front-line town when the Russian war starts -- unless we found 'Utrecht-northwest' first. And I was expecting that those core-Workers would do the first round of joins. Nonetheless, there are several Worker-pairs NW of Oslo already, and improving tiles as they go.

The Workers near Reyk/Aarhus didn't have any other pressing projects within 1 move's range, so again -- a quick road and/or chop seemed reasonable before joining them to Reyk/Aarhus.

Atm the Rax is still logged in.

Oops -- thought I'd changed that before I saved Truth is, I miscalculated there -- with hindsight, I shouldn't have chopped that Forest, just roaded it. So to make the best of a bad job, I thought a Harbour, as a non-wasteful short-term project(s), so we could get to building Rax+Horses out of Trond too. A Market would eventually be good too, but it's not much use to us yet, with only 2 Luxes and Pop5-6...

Oslo should keep pumping Workers. We still need many more of them. Stavanger needs more attention, and other Workers could go straight to T'heim, Copenhagen, Reykjavik for joining.

As things stand, by passing the +3fpt tiles around, our pumps should be able to grow at 5-7fpt (3-4T per new citizen) -- so no need to 'waste' too many Worker-joins on them

Copenhagen isn't growing right now, which isn't good, so either we should join some workers to get it bigger or reassign some tiles, slowing production of Horses there a bit but allowing it to grow again.

Cope doesn't need to grow naturally: it's getting exactly 10spt. Any extra citizens can come from Worker-joins, and then go fishing to feed themselves.

But (I think) we will need more LUX% or Luxes to keep the Pop7+ers happy if we make them bigger than they are right now (at Pop7 I had 4 unHappy at LUX%=0%, but I still had 4 unHappy at Pop8, and I would therefore expect 4-5 unHappy at Pop9). I therefore didn't want to raise LUX%/lower SCI% until most/ all the 1st-ringers (including Trond) got their Worker-joins after reaching Pop7 -- so Trond still needs to grow a couple more turns, and Aarhus and Birka need their Ducts+joins. Then it will be worth increasing LUX% for everyone.

But first, the team needs to decide whether we are going to 'go for broke' (literally!) on Invention: at max-speed (SCI%=80%) we would be almost penniless just as it comes in (in 9T), although we can then earn pots of cash afterwards. If SCI% goes higher than 80%, we will run out of money before research is completed. Right now, at 50%, we need 13T (i.e. only 4T more than 'max.'), and put an extra ~200g into the kitty while doing so (i.e. just enough to upgrade our 4 Archers -- without Leos!).

 

[Lanzelot]

I did a little calculation: just assuming for simplicity that everything remains the same over the next 13 turns (which it won't, as we'll get many more citizens/commerce during that time), we can do Invention (1225 beakers left) as follows: 5 turns at 100% (5 x 189 = 945), upon which we'll have 11 coins left. For the remaining 280b we need 2 turns at 60% (gaining another 8g) and one turn at 30%, gaining 56g. So after 8 turns Invention is finished, 75g in the treasury. We can then run 5 turns at 100% tax (to match your 13T for invention). If we assume that by then the Market in Trondheim is finished, our income will be 189gpt, so we'll earn 945g.

See the difference? If we follow your "luke-warm" approach of 50% science, we will have Invention in 13T from now and have ~546 g in the kitty.
If we go "science full blast" followed by "tax full blast", we will get Invention in 8T from now and have ~1020g in the kitty at turn 13!

(This is what a meant by "making good use of our Library". The multiplier buildings work best at 100%... For that reason I go 100% science even in the later stages of a game, when I could already do 4-turn research at say 80% science (or even less). 3 turns at 100% followed by one turn at 10% will earn more cash than 4 turns at 80%.)

As things stand, by passing the +3fpt tiles around, our pumps should be able to grow at 5-7fpt (3-4T per new citizen) -- so no need to 'waste' too many Worker-joins on them

Which reminds me: we also need a few more Workers to turn the extra food into shields (mines and forests). Now the time has come to put everything into production. Over the next two turnsets we'll have some expensive things to build: Markets at 100s and then -- Berzerks(!) at 70s. We don't want those to take forever. The job for the next turnset is to get T'heim to 20spt and Cope/Rey/Bergen to 15spt. Soon to be followed by Stockholm and (once Yekaterinburg has taken over Worker-duty) Oslo. And then Stavanger, Aarhus and Birka should also be ready.

 

[Elephantium]

Is 24 in Theim feasible? And 18 in the first ring cities? Those are better breakpoints for Zerks than 20 and 15...

 

[tjs282]

The current roster that I should have posted already...

1. tjs282 -- Just played
   
2. Nathiri -- Up next
3. Lanzelot -- On deck, unless he wants to count as having played this round already
4. Robbus
5. Elephantium
6. Choxorn

I did a little calculation ... (etc.)

Argument for 100% SCI% accepted... How many Libs have we got though? Just the one in Trond?

Is 24 in Theim feasible?

It is if we don't mine the irrigation: If Trond works 12 land-tiles, each giving 1spt before the GA, then during our GA, each will give 2spt instead = 24 spt, plus whatever we get from the city-tile. OTOH, if by mining, we can get it to 30spt instead, then after 1T, we could short-rush something worth 40s (a Mace, once we've grabbed the Russians' Iron? = 40g), and then switch to a Zerk, getting it the next turn...

 

[Elephantium]

Trondheim can get to 20spt temporarily and 18spt long-term; BGs and Furs mined give +2 spt each, and the empty grassland will give 1 more spt. Adding that to the picture, we get 18 spt at size 11, with the 12th taking the * BG for 20spt or the coast for commerce.

Copenhagen can easily get to 14spt (but it requires some of Trond's tiles). 9th citizen working Tobacco or mining the BG and moving a riverside worker would do it:

Reyk should hit 18spt at size 12. It can do 14 now, and it can work 4 more mined grassland tiles after we chop them:

Bergen, OTOH, is trickier. It can get to 16 shields at size 12 (19-3 corruption), with two mined BGs. We can squeeze it up to 18spt if we steal a mined BG from T'heim and Oslo. I don't think it's worth it, though:

I also looked at Aarhus (should hit 14spt at size 10), Stockholm (should hit 14+ spt at size 12 with Courthouse), and Birka (maxes out at 10spt unless we steal tiles from Copenhagen).)

 

[Lanzelot]

Trondheim can get to 20spt temporarily and 18spt long-term;

If I didn't miscalculate, Trondheim can get 20spt permanently, which is perfect for 3-turn Berzerks. (We need to use our cash for shortrushing, anyway, as connect/disconnect is not possible for Berzerks. So forget the "magic numbers" for 70 shields, we just go for 15spt and 20spt: both can build Berzerks in 3 turns, either via Mace after turn 1 or via Settler after turn 1.)

And if we give Trondheim 12 land tiles, we can get it to 20spt: 2 furs, 3 BGs, 5 grasslands and 2 forests give together with the city center 20 shields and 24 food. Then Trondheim could build Berzerks in 3 turns by short-rushing a Settler for 40g after turn 1.

That means, during GA Trondheim would get 33spt. Hmm, if we can fill the food bin before the GA, we could forest two more grassland for 35spt at -2fpt! A Berzerk every other turn... And with 40 food in the bin, we can do this for the entire GA!

 

[Lanzelot]

Reyk should hit 18spt at size 12. It can do 14 now, and it can work 4 more mined grassland tiles after we chop them

Which would be the next corrupted shield? If we find a BG under one of those forests, we could get Reykjavik to 20spt -- unless corruption pees on our parade...

 

[Elephantium]

Trond can only go to 20spt by taking the BG away from Copenhagen, i.e. keeping Cope stuck at 13spt.

Reyk is 10% corrupt, so it should be possible for it to hit 20 if one of the forests reveals a BG. Two forests + mined BG = 6 spt + 16 (screenshot) = 22 - 2 (corruption) = 20.

TBH, I don't like the mace-rushing plan for zerk production. Short-rushing is helpful in some circumstances, but I prefer not to have a plan that requires me to check on all our core cities every couple of turns (I prefer to re-MM cities when they grow or when we gain/lose a luxury...CivAssist helps a lot here).

However, that being said, converting Reyk to 20spt may also allow 15spt in Aarhus. We're going to need more Workers.

5 in Trond + 4 in Cop + 4 in Reyk + 4 in Bergen + 5 in Aarhus + 5 in Stockholm + 5 in Birka + 5 in Stavanger = 37 Workers

For Trond: 50 Worker Turns (WT)
Mine 5 tiles = 30 WT
Forest 4 tiles = 20 WT

Cop: 6 WT
Mine 1 tile = 6 WT

Reyk: 60 WT
Chop 4 tiles = 24 WT
Road 4 tiles = 12 WT
Mine 4 tiles (possibly forest 1-2) = 24 WT

Bergen: 12 WT
Mine 2 tiles = 12 WT

Second ring:

Birka: 6 WT (mine 1 tile)

Aarhus: 42 WT
Mine 4 tiles = 24 WT
Road hill tile = 6 WT
Mine hill tile = 12 WT

Stockholm (should be able to hit 15 after corruption): 86 WT
Road Mountain = 9 WT
Mine Mountain = 18 WT
Chop 3 forests = 12 WT
Irrigate 5 plains = 20 WT
Road 3 tiles = 9 WT
Mine Hill = 12 WT
Mine Grassland = 6 WT

Stavanger (FP): 138 WT
Road 6 Hills = 36 WT
Mine 8 Hills = 96 WT
Mine 1 tile = 6 WT

* n.b. we need to take/raze Utrecht before Stavanger can hit its full potential.
City center = 2 food
1 FP = 4 food
3 irrigated grass = 9 food (assuming Yaroslavl is out of the way)
8 Hills = 8 food
Total: 23 food, -1 fpt @ size 12.
vs.
City center = 2 food
3 FP = 12 food (2 tiles from Utrecht)
8 Hills = 8 food
Grassland = 2 food
Total: 24 food, perfectly balanced at size 12
(neither of these use the Mountain tile...we can only use it in Stavanger if we only work 6 Hills...not worth it IMO).

Grand total: 400

First Ring: 128
Second Ring: 134
Stavanger: 138

40 Workers, perfectly placed, could accomplish all that. However, they'd have to move 2-3 times each; count it as 50 Workers needed. We have 35.
If we give up on either the Second-Ring or Stavanger, it's a much more manageable 260ish -- in line with what 35 Workers could accomplish in 10 turns.

Based on this, Oslo and Yekaterinburg should be focused on Worker production! Together, they give us another 26 WT to play with (if Oslo changes from Rax to Worker immediately).

We also need to position military to hit either Yaroslavl or Utrecht (and guard against the reprisals) if we're going to push that way.

 

[Lanzelot]

Trond can only go to 20spt by taking the BG away from Copenhagen, i.e. keeping Cope stuck at 13spt.

Fortunately not: I completely forgot that Trondheim was founded on a BG, so the city centers is going to provide 2s at size 7+...! Therefore my previous list is wrong and 2 furs, 2 BGs, 6 grasslands and 2 forests are sufficient. So Copenhagen can keep that BG, and Bergen (or Reykjavik) can even have another one.

 

[robbus]

for the record team I am trying to keep up! After logging 3000km last week in automobile I am got behind in discussions. I am on pg22 right now. FTR: I liked the FP build...From where I am war with Russia b4 dutch seems better

I would prefer to play before Lanzelot... I plan on playing fewer turns before posting saves as I will likely need some help

 

[Nathiri]

Me already?

So I guess from what I've read here, I build up our military for the next person to be able to use for war? You want me to chop a couple forests and replant? Do I need to worry much about happiness in the cities? I dont have CivAssist so I wouldnt have the alert.