To american users
- Thread starter ellie
- Start date
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
Another question? How about a veto?
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Normaly the Congress is the only one that can aprove the Declaration of war against another country. But events leading up to the Vietnam War changed things around and opened up some loopholes.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
It's worse in the UK.
Our Prime Minister can do what he wants regarding invading other countries. Parliment are toothless.
Our Prime Minister can do what he wants regarding invading other countries. Parliment are toothless.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
Only Congress can declare war but as CivGeneral said there are loopholes to the system. The other way Congress can affect war plans or than the declaration of war is withholding funds since the House of Representative controls the country's purse strings. However I believe Congress has already given the greenlight to any action in Iraq.
Need a 2/3 majority to override a veto.
That isn't technically correct. The power of war is reserved for the monarch, however in effect it is has now been given to the Prime Minister.
The President is Commander-in-Chief.
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
What I meant: Can a veto be used for anything? even for declaring war? Or just for minor topics?
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
Technical schmecnical. We both know that the monarch has no power.
The armed forces do what the Prime Minister says.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
She uses no power, big difference.
Or the war cabinet.
Veto are used for bills. And there is no point in declaring war if the President doesn't want it since he controls the armed forces.
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
What if a majority in congress is anti-war. But 1/3 +1 is pro war. Can a president declare war in that situation?
Actually the power of the queen to declare war (known as the royal perogative) has been restricted by parliment. She must now seek ministerial approval before making a declaration of war.
The royal perogative is the means used by prime ministers to take actions without taking it through parliment. A recent example is edward heath using the royal perogative to take us into the EEC.
The royal perogative is a complex issue, however in THEORY the queen has the power to veto any declaration of law.
Ellie
The royal perogative is the means used by prime ministers to take actions without taking it through parliment. A recent example is edward heath using the royal perogative to take us into the EEC.
The royal perogative is a complex issue, however in THEORY the queen has the power to veto any declaration of law.
Ellie
Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
And in fact, Parliament is not toothless; it has it within its own power to ram through a law forbidding a war in a particular place, or it can promise to restrict appropriations for the war (which is now Congress's chief leverage over the President post-Vietnam).
It's just that there are too many cowards who don't want to lose their plushy cabinet jobs for that to happen, since you'd need a parliament engaged enough to interrupt the government agenda, which is no mean feat and would probably require some cabinet "errors" or defections, particularly in the house leader's office.
Plus, US law does have provisions to allow Congress to override foreign deployments after a certain time period has passed.
It's just that there are too many cowards who don't want to lose their plushy cabinet jobs for that to happen, since you'd need a parliament engaged enough to interrupt the government agenda, which is no mean feat and would probably require some cabinet "errors" or defections, particularly in the house leader's office.
Plus, US law does have provisions to allow Congress to override foreign deployments after a certain time period has passed.
As others have pointed out...the President can use troops for a limited period of time, after which he must consult with congress. In the current instance he has two Congressional resolutions backing him, one to do whatever is necessary against terrorists and the other specific to Iraq.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
Congress declares war not the President.
Shaitan
der Besucher
The Executive branch is mandated to protect America from "foreign slight forces" (essentially anything dangerous to America). Following this mandate, the President can send troops anywhere he wishes to do whatever he wishes without a declaration of war. This power has waxed and waned depending on the relationship between the Pres and Congress and has even been regulated by specific laws passed by Congress. These have included a mandatory order that the President must notify Congress before beginning police actions and that Congress must justify the actions within a certain time frame or troops must be recalled.
The reality is that the President can do what he needs to do and there is little that Congress could do to stop or even limit him without destroying their own careers (which your average politician is loathe to do).
To get back to the original question, President Bush cannot declare war at all. He can only request that Congress do so. That is essentially a rubber stamp to Presidential action though as no declaration of war is required under US laws for the President to effect war upon a foreign threat.
The reality is that the President can do what he needs to do and there is little that Congress could do to stop or even limit him without destroying their own careers (which your average politician is loathe to do).
To get back to the original question, President Bush cannot declare war at all. He can only request that Congress do so. That is essentially a rubber stamp to Presidential action though as no declaration of war is required under US laws for the President to effect war upon a foreign threat.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
They didn't abdicate their power. They used it. Congress has, in effect, declared war on Iraq. They are just waiting for the President to start that war.
Flak
vBülletin Förum
There's been a declaration of war on Iraq? Funny I didn't see any headlines about this. Could you provide a link?
