To bee or not to bee

[Lillefix]

Bees. My God.

 

[Annex]

Bees. My God.

You worship bees?

 

[azzaman333]

Well, where did he say that?

Narz didn't need to say it, because we all know his agenda.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Stupid hippie anti-technology sentiment doesn't amount to dick. The point is Narz is jumping to a conclusion based on a pre-existing belief without evidence. Evidence or GTFO.

Jumping to a conclusion based on a pre-existing belief without evidence... It isn't Narz that is doing it here.

Just like you might be right about Narz without evidence, he might be right that there are environmental aspects caused by man that are behind the bees dying. Scientific evidence aren't required to make reasonable conclusions.

 

[amadeus]

How am I supposed to feel about this? I mean, if a billion bees die... uh, what? How many is a billion relative to the bee-niverse? Is that more than usual? Less? Where's the context?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How am I supposed to feel about this? I mean, if a billion bees die... uh, what? How many is a billion relative to the bee-niverse? Is that more than usual? Less? Where's the context?

The world may be on the brink of biological disaster after news that a third of US bee colonies did not survive the winter

It's very significant.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

It's like the oil spill in the Mexican Gulf - there's plenty of fish in the sea.

 

[Lillefix]

The British bee died out during the first world war(allegedly),and the world still stands.

 

[Mise]

Because the factor causing CCD might have been present for last couple thousand years of beekeeping and it's just a coincidence it started to manifest itself this decade? Yeah, that sounds credible.

I agree, it's only in the past decade that this has been happening, therefore it must be a result of some kind of human action during the past decade. Similarly, the volcano in Iceland hasn't erupted in 200 years, therefore it is entirely due to something we've done quite recently. The Westboro Baptist Church may be on to something here - perhaps it is a punishment from God for tolerating homosexuality!

For the record, here are the potential causes:

Potential causes range from parasites, such as the bloodsucking varroa mite, to viral and bacterial infections, pesticides and poor nutrition stemming from intensive farming methods.

 

[Yeekim]

I agree, it's only in the past decade that this has been happening, therefore it must be a result of some kind of human action during the past decade. Similarly, the volcano in Iceland hasn't erupted in 200 years, therefore it is entirely due to something we've done quite recently.

The volcano in Iceland has been erupting before there were any humans around.
You fail...

 

[Rashiminos]

Jumping to a conclusion based on a pre-existing belief without evidence... It isn't Narz that is doing it here.

Just like you might be right about Narz without evidence, he might be right that there are environmental aspects caused by man that are behind the bees dying. Scientific evidence aren't required to make reasonable conclusions.

Things that might be true if not for other things like

The latest piece of straw on the camel's back

 

[Mise]

The volcano in Iceland has been erupting before there were any humans around.
You fail...

Species have gone extinct before humans were around.
You fail...

Fact is, your argument that it isn't a coincidence is patently absurd. Just because two events happen to coincide doesn't mean they are related. Human action is one of a range of possible causes -- if any of those other causes are correct then yes it would indeed be a coincidence.

 

[Yeekim]

Species have gone extinct before humans were around.

And it has always been for one of two reasons:
1) changes in environment;
2) getting competed out.
I believe we can exclude 2. As for 1, what's the likelihood that critical environmental change of continental scale is not human-induced?

Fact is, your argument that it isn't a coincidence is patently absurd. Just because two events happen to coincide doesn't mean they are related. Human action is one of a range of possible causes -- if any of those other causes are correct then yes it would indeed be a coincidence.

What "other causes"? Let's see...

Potential causes range from parasites, such as the bloodsucking varroa mite, to viral and bacterial infections, pesticides and poor nutrition stemming from intensive farming methods.

My bet is that's all those things combined; whereas causes 3 and 4 are direct results of human activity. It is also obvious that poor nutrition and insecticides would make bees weaker and more susceptible to parasites and infections. On top of that, add here US beekeepers' practice of driving their beehives across huge distances - pollinate one crop on eastern coast one week, another one on western coast the next - and you get a great mechansim for spreading parasites/infections.

 

[Oerdin]

My understanding is that there just isn't that much genetic diversity in most US honey bee populations so if a disease effects any of them it is likely going to effect all of them.

 

[Narz]

Maybe this can solve unemployment. We can just pay all the unemployed people to do the bees' job. Damn bees taking our jobs.

heh, individually pollentating millions of flowers sounds like a pretty tedious job. However, we can't outsource it, perhaps we should bring some teenage Chinese workers here but then we'd have to pay them the Federal minimum wage... probably the best bet is to actually try to keep the bees alive.

Don't we hear about this "The bees are gone! We are doomed!" thing every couple years?

No. It's recent (as others have said).

And you may have heard of it last year but there hasn't been much effort to figure it out & now it's worse.

exactly.

Exactly wrong.

I love how the article clearly states we have no idea what's causing it

Not true. There are many ideas as to what's causing it. It will require more research.

Evidently 10 million dollars of research... while we spend that every five minutes killing A-rabs in the desert. :suicide:

yet Narz obviously believes it's because of the evils of modern industrial mass living

I'd say it's a pretty good chance that's the culprit, yeah. Tens of thousands of untested, barely regulated chemicals floating around the natural world... it's not a matter of if something will give, it's a matter of when.

Or perhaps it's just a natural cycle like global warming or the Holocene extinction event.

My understanding is that there just isn't that much genetic diversity in most US honey bee populations so if a disease effects any of them it is likely going to effect all of them.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised of that's a big part of it, similar to potential threats to agriculture (since we grow just a tiny percentage of the variety of food we used to).

 

[JerichoHill]

Point 1: Bees pollinate our crops
Point 2: We're losing them at a fast rate. Population is in overall decline

Does it really matter what's causing it? This is a bad trend

 

[Mise]

And it has always been for one of two reasons:
1) changes in environment;
2) getting competed out.
I believe we can exclude 2. As for 1, what's the likelihood that critical environmental change of continental scale is not human-induced?

Uhh, we don't know? Please, show me the scientific research you knew of before asserting that it was directly attributable to human action. Tell me of the research papers that you have read which attribute it to human causes. Post all of the peer-reviewed research you have read on this subject, to support your assertion that it is human caused. Otherwise, your assertions are completely baseless.

My bet

Oh, I see, it's just your "bet". Your ignorant, baseless opinion. Great, now we can ignore it and move on!

 

[warpus]

The world may be on the brink of biological disaster after news that a third of US bee colonies did not survive the winter

It's very significant.

Why the entire world, though, even if this were true? Surely the biological disaster is only going to hit the U.S.! (I am assuming our Canadian bees are fine)

I don't mean to dismiss this out of hand, but.. what exactly is going to happen now that the U.S. has 30% less bees? 30% less flowers blooming? How are other countries affected? Did this hit only the U.S.?

Tune in tomorrow for more stupid bee questions from somebody who knows nothing about bees.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Europe was also affected.

edit: I did sa speech on bees when I was 11, but this was also in our news recently.

 

[Mise]

Why the entire world, though, even if this were true? Surely the biological disaster is only going to hit the U.S.! (I am assuming our Canadian bees are fine)

I don't mean to dismiss this out of hand, but.. what exactly is going to happen now that the U.S. has 30% less bees? 30% less flowers blooming? How are other countries affected? Did this hit only the U.S.?

Tune in tomorrow for more stupid bee questions from somebody who knows nothing about bees.

It says in the OP dammit!

The collapse in the global honeybee population is a major threat to crops. It is estimated that a third of everything we eat depends upon honeybee pollination, which means that bees contribute some £26bn to the global economy.

...

Flowering plants require insects for pollination. The most effective is the honeybee, which pollinates 90 commercial crops worldwide. As well as most fruits and vegetables – including apples, oranges, strawberries, onions and carrots – they pollinate nuts, sunflowers and oil-seed rape. Coffee, soya beans, clovers – like alfafa, which is used for cattle feed – and even cotton are all dependent on honeybee pollination to increase yields.

As for why a problem in the US might affect other countries, if there's less food being produced in the US, they will have to import more, which means prices worldwide rise. Not an answer for "biological disaster" worldwide but certainly a humanitarian disaster for people in poor countries who already struggle to put food on the table.