Tragdor
Radical for Freedom
"There is no point in flying the flag of a nation that no longer exists, and indeed, never legally existed."
Doesn't stop the Baques or Qubecces
Doesn't stop the Baques or Qubecces
To most white Southerners: Justify using the Confederate flag!
- Thread starter Sims2789
- Start date
lord42
Prince
The flag has come to symbolize a spirit of rebelliousness and individual freedom, which many feel are being taken away by our government as it is now, making the Confederate flag much more representative of these ideals than the US flag to those people, even though the US was created because of those same ideals. If people's intention was to fly a racist symbol, there are much better candidates than the Confederate flag, so I don't think it's fair to characterize people who fly the flag or display its likeness are doing so because they are racist. There are clearly other reasons for it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ahem I live in the north. it is not cultural. Also what are these people rebelling against? I see whole families doing this so that's not it. i makes no sense as far as opposing religion. Thus it can only be seen as rebelling against a democratic government.
Seriously take down your flag and vote if its pollitical and if it is not political it must by default be racist.
Oh and I have known people who are racist and from them know that it is thier racist symbol. If it is a symbol to the racists then how is it not a racist symbol?
Ahem I live in the north. it is not cultural. Also what are these people rebelling against? I see whole families doing this so that's not it. i makes no sense as far as opposing religion. Thus it can only be seen as rebelling against a democratic government.
Seriously take down your flag and vote if its pollitical and if it is not political it must by default be racist.
Oh and I have known people who are racist and from them know that it is thier racist symbol. If it is a symbol to the racists then how is it not a racist symbol?
Shadylookin
master debater
they have them because they can. were not a dictatorship yet so they still get the freedom to fly it. Let the racist have there symbol, I find it great that US can function quite fine despite the un-american symbol.
Pontiuth Pilate
Republican Jesus!
The flag has come to symbolize a spirit of rebelliousness and individual freedom
The Confederate Flag stands for individual freedom? Freedom for whom?
they have them because they can. were not a dictatorship yet so they still get the freedom to fly it. Let the racist have there symbol, I find it great that US can function quite fine despite the un-american symbol.
Sure - but should we allow that flag to be endorsed by state governments, by incorporating it in their flags? I think not.
The Confederate Flag stands for individual freedom? Freedom for whom?
they have them because they can. were not a dictatorship yet so they still get the freedom to fly it. Let the racist have there symbol, I find it great that US can function quite fine despite the un-american symbol.
Sure - but should we allow that flag to be endorsed by state governments, by incorporating it in their flags? I think not.
lord42
Prince
Yes, legally they can have it.
But they are racist scum in my eyes and the eyes of many others.
At least I can tell who they are and avoid them because of it.
aaminion00
Stoned
What do you mean justify it? Many want to wave it, and not for racist reasons either. End of story. If they want to wave it, let them wave it.
It doesn't belong in goverment however.
It doesn't belong in goverment however.
Perfection
The Great Head.
I never said that some people don't do it out of racism. But, it is unfair calling all those who fly it racist.
lord42
Prince
Well I'm in the North so I've never seen a nonracist do it. Maybe in the south it's different but that's how it is here.
Siegmund
King
It is part of history. That works for me.
Swastikas are part of history too -- a very popular artistic and architectural motif in the early 20th century, and well known as a sort of long-life / good-luck charm symbol rather like the Egyptian ankh for a very long time before they happen to have been appropriated by the Nazis. They were stricken from some of the buildings decorated with them when the Nazis came to power; others, 100 years old now, still survive. I recall seeing them as a kid, in the patterns of brickwork of some shop in a small town in Wyoming, and hearing my parents comment on how it was interesting they had been left there.
The Nazis used the Star of David and the pink triangle to brand jews and homosexuals ... yet we see those same folk proudly displaying those symbols today, having adopted them as their own (or, rather, in the case of the Jews, bringing it into greater prominence than it ever had in the public eye before WWII.)
If your neighbor is racist, well - guess what - he is allowed to hold that opinion, long as he doesn't commit any crimes, and that includes displaying flags.
When you are ready to hack down the crosses off the front doors of all the churches because the KKK uses them, gather up the flags too. In the meantime .... I support people's right to express themselves, whether their ideas are popular or not.
Swastikas are part of history too -- a very popular artistic and architectural motif in the early 20th century, and well known as a sort of long-life / good-luck charm symbol rather like the Egyptian ankh for a very long time before they happen to have been appropriated by the Nazis. They were stricken from some of the buildings decorated with them when the Nazis came to power; others, 100 years old now, still survive. I recall seeing them as a kid, in the patterns of brickwork of some shop in a small town in Wyoming, and hearing my parents comment on how it was interesting they had been left there.
The Nazis used the Star of David and the pink triangle to brand jews and homosexuals ... yet we see those same folk proudly displaying those symbols today, having adopted them as their own (or, rather, in the case of the Jews, bringing it into greater prominence than it ever had in the public eye before WWII.)
If your neighbor is racist, well - guess what - he is allowed to hold that opinion, long as he doesn't commit any crimes, and that includes displaying flags.
When you are ready to hack down the crosses off the front doors of all the churches because the KKK uses them, gather up the flags too. In the meantime .... I support people's right to express themselves, whether their ideas are popular or not.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Actually I'm from Minnesota.
lord42
Prince
And you've seen non racist fly it?
Actually I live in pennslyvannia. I think a study showed the it in truth is the most racist state. We have 3000 kkk members. The people here that fly it are indeed racists.
Mescalhead
Vincebus Eruptum
It doesn't need justification. Thats because in the United States things like this are allowed. If someone says that it doesn't stand for slavery to them, then you should accept that. In fact slavery was not as large a reason for the Civil War as some wish. It was more of a catalyst than a true casus belli.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
You might be a redneck if...
However, I do think it is (and should be) protected by the First Amendment to display teh confederate battle flag from your pickup truck just as wearing KKK robes or displaying a swastika or other neo-fascst emblems would be protected.
Where I draw the line is at Southern states such as South Carolina and, until recently, Georgia that continue to display it on public grounds. To me this is completely reprehensible as are the states which have confederate battle flag vanity plates for sale.
To these people I say "You lost the Civil War long ago now get over it".
I love it when people try to rewrite Civil War history by suggesting it wasn't fought over slavery. They claim it was economics - because the federal government refused to pay them for property loss, e.g. slaves. Ore even better they suggest that it was states rights - such as the right to have slaves... What a crock.
However, I do think it is (and should be) protected by the First Amendment to display teh confederate battle flag from your pickup truck just as wearing KKK robes or displaying a swastika or other neo-fascst emblems would be protected.
Where I draw the line is at Southern states such as South Carolina and, until recently, Georgia that continue to display it on public grounds. To me this is completely reprehensible as are the states which have confederate battle flag vanity plates for sale.
To these people I say "You lost the Civil War long ago now get over it".
I love it when people try to rewrite Civil War history by suggesting it wasn't fought over slavery. They claim it was economics - because the federal government refused to pay them for property loss, e.g. slaves. Ore even better they suggest that it was states rights - such as the right to have slaves... What a crock.
I only display my Confederate flag on MLK Day - the day we are encouraged to "celebrate our diversity" (it is almost mandatory to do something celebrating diversity on this day in the place I once worked). The reaction I get confirms that only certain types of diversity are to be celebrated - and the PC bs of this attitude is more than enough justification for displaying the flag.
I realize that some will be ignorant enough to automatically deem me a racist for flying it, but the flag has more meanings beyond race. If you look to the degree that the Federal Government has ignored the Constitution to impede on states rights since the Civil War, you will see that the South had a point on the States Rights issue. Until the Federal Government starts respecting the Constitution, I take it as my duty to show my displeasure - and one way to do that is through displaying the Confederate Flag.
What about the U.S. flag? Has that always flown over a land of the free? How much race extermination (even post Civil War) has gone on under that racist banner? What justification is there to flying that flag? To show your pride of the near extermination of the Native American population?
The Confederate flag is "always racist" only to the degree that some will be ignorant and narrow minded enough to always infer racism when they see the flag. Just as some will always be racist when they see a person of another race or see me on a date with someone of another race. The same people that can't see the possible non-racist meaning of the Conderate Flag are amazingly the same ones that can somehow not comprehend the self-conflicting nature of the following policy statement made by most potential employers: "We recruit and hire qualified candidates without regard to race, religion, color, sex, sexual orientation, age, national origin, ancestry, citizenship, veteran or disability status and support and promote the concept of affirmative action."
And by the way Sims, didn't you used to diplay the Confederate Flag in your avatar? Should I have automatically concluded from that avatroll that you had hatred issues of your own? What justification did you have for using the Confederate Flag as any part of your avatar?
I realize that some will be ignorant enough to automatically deem me a racist for flying it, but the flag has more meanings beyond race. If you look to the degree that the Federal Government has ignored the Constitution to impede on states rights since the Civil War, you will see that the South had a point on the States Rights issue. Until the Federal Government starts respecting the Constitution, I take it as my duty to show my displeasure - and one way to do that is through displaying the Confederate Flag.
What about the U.S. flag? Has that always flown over a land of the free? How much race extermination (even post Civil War) has gone on under that racist banner? What justification is there to flying that flag? To show your pride of the near extermination of the Native American population?
The Confederate flag is "always racist" only to the degree that some will be ignorant and narrow minded enough to always infer racism when they see the flag. Just as some will always be racist when they see a person of another race or see me on a date with someone of another race. The same people that can't see the possible non-racist meaning of the Conderate Flag are amazingly the same ones that can somehow not comprehend the self-conflicting nature of the following policy statement made by most potential employers: "We recruit and hire qualified candidates without regard to race, religion, color, sex, sexual orientation, age, national origin, ancestry, citizenship, veteran or disability status and support and promote the concept of affirmative action."
And by the way Sims, didn't you used to diplay the Confederate Flag in your avatar? Should I have automatically concluded from that avatroll that you had hatred issues of your own? What justification did you have for using the Confederate Flag as any part of your avatar?
Sims2789
Fool me once...
so you're saying that owning slaves is a states right?
To JollyRoger:
you fly the Flag of Traitors because you're a redneck and you hate America and hate MLK. thats like me saying, "on Holocost Rmemberance Day, i'm gonna show my diversity by going to Israel and flying a Nazi flag. but im not rascist. only ignorant people see the Bazi flag as something rascist."
only ignorant, rascist America-haters fly the Confederate flag.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
If you feel that states have the right to be racist, yes, you are racist.
The biggest mistake the founders of the Constitution ever made was allowing each state to make their own laws. The only reason they did so was because they knew it was the only way to get the Constitution ratified.
The biggest mistake the founders of the Constitution ever made was allowing each state to make their own laws. The only reason they did so was because they knew it was the only way to get the Constitution ratified.
Mescalhead
Vincebus Eruptum
You can still be for states rights and against slavery. Regardless of whether or not the Union was victorious, slavery would be long dead by now. Much too unlucrative if anything else. Also, there was a large abolitionist movement in the South gaining a significant amount of momentum prior to the cecession of the Southern states.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
And what good did it do? The South still seceded and waged war against the US due to their stance on the abolition of slavery. And for this you are now somehow proud?
Sims2789
Fool me once...
there was a slash through it, moron! note the dark red line going through the confederate flag.
Sims2789
Fool me once...
LOL! freedom! don't dirty that word. the whole point of the flag was to oppress people with dark skin!
