Toddler falls in gorilla pit

[TheMeInTeam]

Does that logic still hold true, or did it change because we're no longer the superior species in that example?

The reality in such a scenario is that our opinions would be (to put it mildly) trivialized. It would be quite a poor value proposition to us and we'd reasonably try to avoid that outcome if possible, but it doesn't sound like we'd succeed in that case.

Really in this instance it's a question of our own sense of moral responsibility/valuation.

Just put a sign up "Open enclosure" WARNING jumping inside can cause death by Gorilla.

That has a low probability of altering the particulars of this case. I doubt most three year olds can read usefully, while anybody else there was likely aware than an animal several times heavier and stronger than strong humans could do serious damage if agitated. It's like putting a sign on the roof of every building "falling can cause death" (and it seems the fall did most of the damage to the child, the Gorilla's threat was one of further harm from inadvertent action or delaying treatment). The people with the mental capacity to understand the meaning of the sign probably understand the reality without having to read it.

The rail has been upgraded to a fence now, sadly this dose block the view guess you cant have it both ways.
That or mandatory leashes for all toddlers at the zoo.

The gorilla exhibit in the last place I visited had a very tall glass barricade across anywhere visitors to the zoo could go. Forget a child, in peak athletic condition an adult wouldn't be able to get through or over that using normal means (admittedly, I haven't tried hammering the glass and presume it to be strong, similar to tall buildings). It wasn't the only thing separating the Gorillas from the rest of the park, but it was the primary reason people couldn't get into the exhibit. A child would have to first enter the area meant for zookeepers and then navigate into the pit, and I'm not sure what they had on that side of things. It probably still is possible if you're willing to move through heavy foliage in a restricted area, but it would take longer.

 

[trader/warrior]

The last pit style animal enclosure I saw (for wolves, more of a viewing platform for a large enclosed area really) had your normal railings you could easily get through, but also a short horizontal chain-link fence along the ground sticking out over the pen in case someone fall in. Unless the pit is ridiculously small that shouldn't obscure the view at all, and easily doable.

 

[Archbob]

Let the two duke it out, Survival of the fittest. The superior organism will Triumph.

How long does the tranquilizer take to take the gorilla?

 

[aelf]

The last pit style animal enclosure I saw (for wolves, more of a viewing platform for a large enclosed area really) had your normal railings you could easily get through, but also a short horizontal chain-link fence along the ground sticking out over the pen in case someone fall in. Unless the pit is ridiculously small that shouldn't obscure the view at all, and easily doable.

Well, it seems to me that organisations regularly insist that they are already doing their utmost and nothing else could reasonably be done. And there are often people ready to defend them, even ordinary observers.

 

[Namor]

Well, it seems to me that organisations regularly insist that they are already doing their utmost and nothing else could reasonably be done. And there are often people ready to defend them, even ordinary observers.

The fact the world isn't always idiot proof doesn't mean the zoo is to blame for what happened.

And when I say idiot proof, I'm talking about the responsible parent not the child of course.

 

[aelf]

"To blame" and "could do more" are different things. There are solutions, evidently, but those who can implement them are not always interested in doing so, for whatever reason.

 

[Ryika]

The fact the world isn't always idiot proof doesn't mean the zoo is to blame for what happened.

And when I say idiot proof, I'm talking about the responsible parent not the child of course.

That seems equally unreasonable to me.

I agree that one cannot realistically expect a Zoo or really any place to be without possible hazards. But at the same time one cannot expect a mother to be so perfect that she's never distracted from her kids for even a second.

I'd go even further and say that parents SHOULD not be that vigilant anyway. Accidents like this may be the price we have to pay if we want our kids to be able to grow up as independent people who can take care of themselves.

 

[Namor]

"To blame" and "could do more" are different things. There are solutions, evidently, but those who can implement them are not always interested in doing so, for whatever reason.

They are reopening the exhibit with a taller barrier at the very least.

If that is considered enough or not has yet to be seen.

If the standard is "can somebody trying really hard make it over" then I think that should be considered too high of a standard in a court of law.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If the standard is "can somebody trying really hard make it over" then I think that should be considered too high of a standard in a court of law.

That isn't a very concrete standard anyway. Try as I might, I would never make it over the glass barrier I described above unaided by tools. However, I suppose if I dashed into the zoo with a ladder or knew how to pole vault I could do it. How "hard" is "trying really hard" ? If one's life depended on making it into the enclosure (instead of the opposite), then yes that would be an unreasonable standard.

If we're setting policies reasonably, the zoo demonstrating a 35 track record of no incident (if that's the case) suggests that there's no reason to believe they were particularly negligent, or that zoos should be held to the kind of standard you wouldn't hold car manufacturers or the military.

That said, within a given price range I think they can probably do better. See-through setups that an adult couldn't trivially bypass unaided shouldn't be anywhere near the price tag of creating an enclosure, acquiring gorillas, and maintaining them...the marginal cost of that is likely trivial.

 

[NovaKart]

You can't be 100% vigilant all the time I don't really blame the parents. Sometimes it just takes a brief moment for something to happen. I have been to the Cincinnati zoo a few times but last time was in the 1990s and I don't remember seeing gorillas.

I don't know what the enclosure looks like or what the parents were doing so it's my fair to blame the parents really unless there are witnesses who say they were not paying attention to the child at all for several minutes.