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Too easy to discover the whole world; and urban sprawl

Discussion in 'Orbis Modmod' started by Pazyryk, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. Willgar

    Willgar Prince

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    I had the HUD missing issue as well - tabbing to desktop cleared that. The main problem i had was that it needs a fresh install from FfH 41d and you need to run a "Play now" as well to clear options.
     
  2. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    If you want a unit to only be able to reveal tiles in the direction it's facing, turn bLineOfSight to 1 ;)
     
  3. Bootsiuv

    Bootsiuv Prince

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    @Pazyryk

    Some interesting ideas. I don't know much at all about modding civ IV, but I was reading the features for trimming thread and Valkrionn mentioned something about using Cyther's Leash System with the guardian of pristin pass.

    Would it be possible to create a unique feature (completely invisible if possible, call it boss lair if not), to keep the bosses near their "lair"?

    Then you would have to have the unique feature check for certain requirements, such as 3x3 tiles of desert or whatever.

    Not sure if that would work, but I know the guardian of pristin pass never pops on grassland, so there must be a way to have features check terrain, no?
     
  4. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Unique Features are only placed on the terrains listed in their <TerrainMakesValids>, but that can only check the tile the improvement is on, not the tiles surrounding it. The tile can also be terraformed after that, or changed temporarily by the End of Winter Option, The Deepening Ritual, or certain constellation events.
     
  5. Bootsiuv

    Bootsiuv Prince

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    I see.

    Poo.
     
  6. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Well, assuming you spawn them all in 'on GameStart', you could afford to do a loop of the plots to search for an appropriate location to spawn the baddie... Then when found, set the leash however wide you want it for that unit.

    For reference, here's the python code for the leash... All the rest is handled in the DLL.

    Code:
    newUnit1.setLeashed(True)
    newUnit1.setLeashX(iX)
    newUnit1.setLeashY(iY)
    newUnit1.setLeashRange(5)
    iX and iY are the plots x+y values, range is the range he can wander from that location. Wider the range, the more dangerous the baddie will be. ;)
     
  7. Schwarzbart

    Schwarzbart Prince

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    Just wone a Tower of Mastery Victory without even explored 50% of the Huge Ereberus Continent I played in. (Using LENA .40 without any future Changes) So the to fast exploring is your personal taste/play style.
     
  8. Breez

    Breez King

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    I also don't like urban sprawl

    this is exactly how I play and love it.

    The other thing I did is...
    Every modmodmodmodmod I play has this restriction now. It works great and, while the AI is effected by the change, Set at 3 it is a possitive effect. They don't pack their cities so close together they stifle each others growth. You COULD increase it to 4 or 5 or 10 even if you are crazy. That would guarantee wilds late into the game and probably even until the end. I have not tried anything over 3, no clue how any number hihgher would effect the AI.
     
  9. Schwarzbart

    Schwarzbart Prince

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    Thanks for pointing me out the Location where I can change the min distance ... its one thing I allways think the AI messes up to place the citys to close together.
     
  10. Breez

    Breez King

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    just in case it wasn't clear, changing that Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML. (I think you actaully do it under the BtS folder) changes it for every version including base BtS games UNLESS that mod choses to overwrite that file which most don't, but that is what I wanted.
     
  11. Schwarzbart

    Schwarzbart Prince

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    the direct Change in the BTS Folder ist bad becuase then Mods like FF where a Civilisation just use 1 Runing instead of 2 would have problems.
     
  12. Breez

    Breez King

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    The Jotar are fine with the change really. It prevents you from cramming them in so tight which prevents some of their sprawl also. FF+ is trying to limit that same thing via maintance increases etc. I play with it changed in the BtS direct folder and have had no bad side effects yet. Been tempted to try raiseing it to 4
     
  13. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Should wait and see the patch before saying we're doing it via maintenance. ;) Got some surprises in store.
     
  14. abqaiq93

    abqaiq93 Chieftain

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    So after playing a couple of games with my changes on the first page, I must say that I like them a lot. Scouts and hunters gain a new importance in the game. Also the sentry promotion now has much more significance as it now returns the ability to see farther than one square, so it is a harder decision when upgrading your exploring units.

    In all 3 of my games, most of the world was still unexplored (Large maps) come turn 400, and was not completely revealed until the mid 500 turns. These changes really keep you focused on city expansion and instead of trying to discover the world, your early decisions are more focused on finding suitable new city locations.

    With Raging Barbarians and Wild Animals enjoying all the extra time in the dark, they become a force to reckon with, and I have lost untold number of scout and hunters through trying to explore the land. On the sea only revealing one square at a time, really represents how vast the ocean is and I feel is much more realistic. Of course once your ship can get upgraded to earn a promotion for sentry, it gains it's ability to see multiple squares.

    I have not tried the city distance change mentioned above but it does sound like something I am going to try in my next game.
     
  15. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Nice :)

    Also, I remember a member wanting to limit the urban sprawl... So he worked on a mod in which you have to pay some gold (exponentially increasing each time) to found your cities. In the end, he just raised the amount of culture necessary to gain a new ring of culture :)
     
  16. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Okay... I'm going to try a game with abqaiq93 settings in the defines, as well as moving map trading and not allowing work boats to scout. Plus, I'll change the culture needed to go up in cultural levels so it will require more of it :)

    ---

    On a related note, based on the new patch, I thought of something... It could be nice to spawn some forts and directly put a demonic/savage fort commander on it so it would become something like a 'Dungeon Keeper'. Making it spawn Skeletons or something similar (leashed to the improvement) could be interesting, as well as rarely popping some non-leashed monsters and spreading Haunted Lands/Swamps/whatever.
     
  17. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Okay, so... It's far from perfect.

    I like the idea but it needs tweaking. As of now, there's obviously some problems: it seems the AI barely wants to attack, I think because she can't see other units; also, when walking on an enemy city covered by fog, all defenders are pushed away and you gain the city without fighting...

    Here's my known map at turn 181 (normal speed):
    Spoiler :

    Check the minimap to see the world's urban sprawl:
    Spoiler :


    Maybe the Elves should get +1 sight from forest; maybe naval units should be able to see 1 tile around themselves...
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Looks like cartography is more down the naval line in the new patch i. I'll just have to try it, but here is my prediction:

    1) One AI will research cartography.
    2) All other civs will repeatedly trade maps with that one until all civs have the same map that reveals all territory explored by anyone.

    So, even if I don't bother to explore at all. Once I research cartography I can instantly reveal the whole world (just trade the most pathetic tech to the most pathetic civ for his map).

    Really, I think the only solution is to remove cartography altogether and put map trading very very late (say printing press) or never.
     
  19. abqaiq93

    abqaiq93 Chieftain

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    1. You played on a island map. I have not seen an AI play that well or attack players on other land masses all that well. I have played island maps with these changes and yes the ai takes longer to attack, but the ai has taken longer to attack on island maps before I made any of these changes.

    2. I am playing with default Orbis mod. I have not seen units get pushed out of cities when walking into them in the fog. Are you sure that there were units in the city the turn before you walked in? Did you save the turn before and then open the editor and see any units in the city? I have played 4 complete games with these changes and have never seen it. I have played island maps and yes the ai takes longer to attack, but the ai have taken longer to attack on island maps before I made any of these changes. Were these Barbarian cities or AI race cities? I have seen Barbarian cities empty with no defending units and yes you are able to walk right in.

    3. Once units get the Sentry promotion these sight changes are canceled out. These changes were only to slow down the initial exploration of the map. Once a ship or land unit gets flanking I and sentry I (btw mid game units usually get 2 free promotions because of buildings and/or civics) then sight changes I made are no longer applicable to those units. It does create more strategy because beside the usual promotion regiment that players follow, you have to decide if this unit wants to be able to have better vision.

    4.
    And on a more funny note, who ever said the AI is a she?
     
  20. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    I meant attack with its units; but I do remember being attacked by some barbarians...

    I was playing with base Orbis, patch I, too. And yeah, I checked, for the defenders. Can't understand why it did that...

    Yeah, I guess so :p It just seems so long to get Sentry :lol:

    Me? ;)
     

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