[RD] Toronto van attack

[Synobun]

I don't think you read that thread if you're claiming there's "not much hatred or misogyny". A thirty-second scroll brought me to a comment thread of several Incels insulting each other and trying to compete for who was the ugliest, and another comment thread which said the opening poster is justified in hating women. C'mon, dude.

 

[red_elk]

I don't think you read that thread if you're claiming there's "not much hatred or misogyny".

Not much hatred expressed by the author and many commentators only sympathize to him.
Of course you can find misogyny and hatred if you are looking for it. Just open comment section to any popular youtube video and a thirty second scroll will bring you some as well.

 

[Synobun]

We're not talking about a popular YouTube video. We're talking about a dedicated space for a specific philosophy.

Also, stop lying. Link spoilered because of excessive coarse language.

Spoiler :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Braincels/..._old_kissless_balding_virgin_54_this/dyk1r7a/

"Not much hatred expressed by the author"?

A couple more goodies from the author you're defending. Both spoilered for the same reason as above.

Spoiler :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Braincels/..._old_kissless_balding_virgin_54_this/dyk1okn/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Braincels/..._old_kissless_balding_virgin_54_this/dyjglr6/

Those examples are from your selected thread, not even his posts in other threads!

I gave you an opportunity to cherry pick a thread, any thread, in that community to defend your position, only for you to hand me exactly the kind of content that proves my point.

This has sufficiently spoken for itself so I'm unlikely to continue engaging on this point in particular, especially since I'm likely using up any good faith when it comes to linking to NSFW content right now.

 

[red_elk]

I gave you an opportunity to cherry pick a thread, any thread, in that community to defend your position, only for you to hand me exactly the kind of content that proves my point.

If your point is that part of self-identified incels are misogynists and haters, nobody argued against that.
But if you want to claim that everyone of them is - then your link rather disproves it, because noticeable part of comments are sensible and not hateful.

I gave you an opportunity to cherry pick a thread, any thread, in that community to defend your position

You offered me to look at the comments, not to cherry pick anything.
What I was supposed to cherry pick there - a thread completely without hate language?

 

[Lexicus]

No other difference? It makes it terribly tempting to ask why don't you change work if you actually believe that.

I'm skeptical that I'd actually be able to find a job I like better that would still let me pay my expenses. Of course, it's funny that you would use this sort of bootstrap rhetoric and then conclude your post by using "liberal" as a smear word. You of all people should know that wage labor is not exactly about free choice on the part of the worker.

I don't think anyone is actually so naive as to believe that "sex work" is or will ever be an appreciated profession. Sex work among the extremes of commodification of the human: the intimacy of the body, the sex... that which most people regard as proper to give but never to sell, to obtain but never to buy, is to be traded and regulated as any other commodity. And the good "sex worker" will provide a full "service" of course: pretend interest in the client, appear cultivated, perhaps act as an escort to some social function - thus "love" passes into commerce. Why am I not surprised that the "rights" of "sex workers" are on the agenda or certain very liberal political groupings?

I mean, with this sort of attitude "sex work" will never be an appreciated profession, sure. It is demonstrably harmful to criminalize sex work; it's demonstrably harmful to treat all sex workers as though they are being coerced. It demonstrably reduces harm to treat it like any other occupation, subject it to regulation like we have done with other forms of work. Policy based on your ideas is a recipe for sex work to still exist, but to exist in almost entirely coercive and abusive environment.

To some extent I share your attitude; I don't believe I would ever want to have sex as part of a transaction, but not everyone feels the way I do. At least I can recognize it.

 

[red_elk]

I agree with Lexicus here - while prostitution is a surrogate of love and intimacy, some people can't get proper thing and consider surrogate to be better than nothing. Criminalizing and alienating this profession does more harm than good.

 

[sophie]

I certainly hope you aren't implying, Innonimatu et al., that the Classical period was characterized by a desperate search for meaning, and this search abated with the rise of Christian theology, and that it's only just now popping back up (whether you want to define "now" as in present day or within the framework of the rise of modernity as a historical epoch). Because that is quite unequivocally not the case.

Also again - prostitution wouldn't solve this problem (ew, gross sexist implications of that statement aside), because the incel movement, even within their own terms, isn't really about sex. By their own profession, it's about companionship: wanting and being wanted. The subtext to be read there is that they see women as objects that they would like to possess and control. But even outside that quite apparent subsurface reading, the superficies makes it quite unambiguous that the movement and professed goals are about more than just sex.

 

[Farm Boy]

Wanting to be wanted is not the same thing as wanting control. One is want of power. The other is want of love.

 

[Synobun]

A basic want of love doesn't lead to feeling you are owed it, while a want of power does. This becomes especially apparent when a core underlying premise of being Incels is how you feel emasculated by the "alpha male" and the women who reject you.

 

[Lexicus]

Also again - prostitution wouldn't solve this problem

No but sex workers deserve dignity and good treatment regardless

 

[Farm Boy]

Want of love does all sorts of nasty stuff including turning people mean.

Wanting to be wanted is still what it is. I suppose you could say they don't know what they want, that's true enough sometimes, I guess. But if it's that basic it's probably not that far off.

 

[Kyriakos]

You know, sometimes (ie almost always) i think that CFC OT should not even exist. There, i said it

Like Red Elk said, it is unlikely that incel forums are some kind of hive mentality terrorist stomping ground. As in any self-help or support or whatever forum, one would see many types of people, some with very nasty views, others just depressed, others trolling, others not that depressed but moving on etc.

 

[Lexicus]

it is unlikely that incel forums are some kind of hive mentality terrorist stomping ground.

It is demonstrably true that incel forums are some kind of hive mentality terrorist stomping ground.

 

[Kyriakos]

It is demonstrably true that incel forums are some kind of hive mentality terrorist stomping ground.

Well, if you go to some general psycho issue support forum, you will see pretty much something similar. Many people are making threads about not being able to get a gf etc, and some would say nasty stuff, while others would say other stuff, as i noted.

 

[Broken_Erika]

They want their Love-Slaves, like in Lexx.

 

[Synobun]

Self-help is explicitly not a part of the Incels philosophy, nor is "moving on".

 

[Kyriakos]

Self-help is explicitly not a part of the Incels philosophy, nor is "moving on".

Incel aren't human?

I see there is no demonization going on, at least
There are crazy people everywhere. I doubt there is an organized movement of said crazies, as incel. Sounds more like a parody of a movement.

 

[Lexicus]

Well, if you go to some general psycho issue support forum, you will see pretty much something similar. Many people are making threads about not being able to get a gf etc, and some would say nasty stuff, while others would say other stuff, as i noted.

Incel forums are not "issue support forums." If there is a bit of "issue support" it's in the broader redpill/pick-up-artist community, which for all its godawful politics at least comes with some focus on self-improvement.

 

[Broken_Erika]

The really nasty ones are usually the loudest. But, it's the really disturbed quiet ones you need to watch out for.

 

[Kyriakos]

Incel forums are not "issue support forums." If there is a bit of "issue support" it's in the broader redpill/pick-up-artist community, which for all its godawful politics at least comes with some focus on self-improvement.

Ok. I guess i will have a look at the link. But i do find it ridiculous than actually violent people would try to organize as... incel of all things

What is next? "Revenge of the nerds"? ^_^

edit: well, i clicked on Syn's link. Obviously many people say the obvious, that the person would gain if he changed his views and tried to get help with his depression. I am disappointed, cause going by Synsensa's opinion of it i expected to read a eulogy of killing women or something similar, all in harmony and working non-stop as incel drone clerics.
No surprise then. Stop being so crybaby; i've seen far worse than this in generic psychology support forums; guy is depressed and some troll some give good advice and some say hateful stuff against women/op/others. Ie welcome to the internet.