[RD] Toronto van attack

[Synobun]

They are very human.

You self-identify as an Incel when you have thrown in the towel and embraced your perceived emasculation by the world, settling into the bitterness that comes along with such a declaration. You've resigned yourself to the "fate" of being undesired, unwanted, and conspired against by those who are deemed arbitrarily better than you are.

There is no interest in helping someone not be that since the idea of "not being that" is inherently considered a part of the conspiracy. What's more is that self-identifying as an Incel isn't a truck stop, it's a conscious decision to be a part of a movement that sees women and social systems as being hostile agents working against you. You don't become an Incel to move on, you become an Incel to be stubborn in a half-baked world view because you're too angry and everyone around you in this community will tell you you're right for feeling that way.

 

[Lexicus]

tl;dr people defending incels don't know what incels are

 

[Kyriakos]

Hm, i have to say, that you two don't come across as very humanistic. Also, i am sure that anyone should be aware that people - particularly so young; those posters in the forum are in their 20s at most - can and do change. Actually if one doesn't change from what they were in their teens/early 20s, problems will become worse.
The guy in Synsensa's thread sounds miserable, and some try to give good advice, saying he should change his mentality. Others troll him. Some post hateful stuff against OP, women, or others. Some are there for the ride. RedElk's view was correct.

 

[Broken_Erika]

If you guys had any idea what i was into when i was a teenager, you'd probably try to contact the RCMP.

 

[Kyriakos]

If you guys had any idea what i was into when i was a teenager, you'd probably try to contact the RCMP.

Same here ^_^

 

[Farm Boy]

Crybaby? I dunno Kryriakos, is the urge predominantly complaint, predominantly fear, or is it predominantly pecking order?

If you guys had any idea what i was into when i was a teenager, you'd probably try to contact the RCMP.

Is that because it would produce a fine physical specimen to observe?

Because the other way I'm going with it is all avatar.

 

[Kyriakos]

Farm Boy, i just really don't see the thread in that forum as all that different from countless threads in psychological support forums. Guy is severely depressed (assuming this isn't a sick joke, of course).

 

[Synobun]

Hm, i have to say, that you two don't come across as very humanistic. Also, i am sure that anyone should be aware that people - particularly so young; those posters in the forum are in their 20s at most - can and do change. Actually if one doesn't change from what they were in their teens/early 20s, problems will become worse.
The guy in Synsensa's thread sounds miserable, and some try to give good advice, saying he should change his mentality. Others troll him. Some post hateful stuff against OP, women, or others. Some are there for the ride. RedElk's view was correct.

It is, quite literally, their own description of themselves. Using their own views to describe them is a hell of a lot better than admitting you don't know them but still making confident declarations about their intentions and who they are anyways. Being "humanistic" has nothing to do with it and is just a cheap way for you to idly dismiss being wrong because you can then pretend it's an attitude clash.

Nobody has attempted to deny the reality that an Incel can change. Hopefully they do. Life is better when you don't view it through such a hostile lens. What is being denied is that Incel communities are dedicated spaces for Incels finding help in no longer being an Incel. That is explicitly not what they are about. It's antithetic to their philosophy. It's a bald-faced lie to imply this is the case.

 

[Kyriakos]

It is, quite literally, their own description of themselves. Using their own views to describe them is a hell of a lot better than admitting you don't know them but still making confident declarations about their intentions and who they are anyways. Being "humanistic" has nothing to do with it and is just a cheap way for you to idly dismiss being wrong because you can then pretend it's an attitude clash.

Nobody has attempted to deny the reality that an Incel can change. Hopefully they do. Life is better when you don't view it through such a hostile lens. What is being denied is that Incel communities are dedicated spaces for Incels finding help in no longer being an Incel. That is explicitly not what they are about. It's antithetic to their philosophy. It's a bald-faced lie to imply this is the case.

Ok, but you were told that not everyone there is of one opinion. And your own thread shows just that, surely; there are many different stances in that thread. Obviously there will be crazies, but your own 'evidence' of a massive incel brigade seems to be lacking, given incel central (you linked to) seems to present various views and not just the crazy hater.

By the way, i think i am not really helping, and i should say that i somewhat find this topic (incel army) to be ridiculous... Maybe it is for people up to their 20s or something ^_^

 

[Lexicus]

Being "humanistic" has nothing to do with it and is just a cheap way for you to idly dismiss being wrong because you can then pretend it's an attitude clash.

+1

When shown you are wrong, pretend you were actually having a different argument all along, preferably in a way that puts your interlocutors on the defensive by implying a moral failure on their part

 

[Broken_Erika]

Is that because it would produce a fine physical specimen to observe?

Because the other way I'm going with it is all avatar.

Lets just say one of the sites i used to frequently visit made the movie "Hostel" look like a Care Bears special.
edit:in case you don't know what the movie "Hostel" is...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostel_(2005_film)

 

[Farm Boy]

Farm Boy, i just really don't see the thread in that forum as all that different from countless threads in psychological support forums. Guy is severely depressed (assuming this isn't a sick joke, of course).

Nono, the urge here, not there. The one you seem to be tangling with rhetorically. I thought that was what you were referring to with "crybaby." I'm not sure it's whining, persay. I was interested if you figured it might instead be a type of fear, or a type of dominance hierarchy as "expressed with the beak" in domesticated chickens.

Lets just say one of the sites i used to frequently visit made the movie "Hostel" look like a Care Bears special.

Fair enough, that's about where I was going with it. Nothing like two-stroke exhaust and hot bar oil to get the blood pumping. Orrrr, something!

 

[sophie]

Ok. I guess i will have a look at the link. But i do find it ridiculous than actually violent people would try to organize as... incel of all things

I mean. It's nearly verbatim an argument ISIS uses to attract volunteers from the West. They identify and target lonely, isolated Muslim males, convince them their failings and loneliness are the result of a Western conspiracy to corrupt women and keep Muslims in a position of inferiority, and then promise them things like power and wives (read: sex slaves) to help them fight the good fight and defeat the conspiracy.

Like, reading the way the Incel community has lionized and canonized "martyrs" like "Saint Elliot" Rodger and "Saint Cho" (i.e. Seung-Hui Cho, the VT shooter) reads eerily similar to other terrorist reactionary/fundamentalist groups.

Sure they're young. Sure young people have stupid ideas about the world that they often grow out of. But 1) not all of these people are actually all that young, and 2) it doesn't at all excuse the horrifying things that many of these people contemplate, some execute, and many idolize afterwards. Should we excuse Elliot Rodger, a man who murdered 6 women and injured 14 more simply because he happened to be 22 when he did it? Should we excuse Seung-Hui Cho who murdered 33 because he was 23?

three of the five 9/11 hijackers were under 25 when they committed their attacks. Should we excuse their deeds as the acts of naïve, misguided youths as well?

 

[red_elk]

Crybaby? I dunno Kryriakos, is the urge predominantly complaint, predominantly fear, or is it predominantly pecking order?

The latter one, I guess.

 

[Synobun]

Ok, but you were told that not everyone there is of one opinion. And your own thread shows just that, surely; there are many different stances in that thread. Obviously there will be crazies, but your own 'evidence' of a massive incel brigade seems to be lacking, given incel central (you linked to) seems to present various views and not just the crazy hater.

Reddit is just like CFC in the sense that people who do not belong can still participate. There's no barrier to entry except having an account on the site. I linked to a "sanitized" sub-reddit (equivalent to a forum section) and the thread was one of Red_Elk's choosing. Observing that not all Incels are monolithic drones is... true? but not really a counter to the point that they all operate on the same underlying principles. The same way vegans are all different people but all don't eat animal-based products. You can't be a vegan and eat meat. If you self-describe as a vegan while you're chowing down a steak, you are at best a liar and at worst an idiot. There are minimum conditions involved in joining a defined culture/philosophy.

Incel central is probably on Voat now or their own site.

Spoiler :

https://incels.me/

Spoilering because, again, not inherently NSFW but you're bound to read naughty language. Not sure if there's NSFW imagery... didn't see any at a quick glance.

The lowest of the low likely congregate on community sites like Voat that make it easier to break the law without getting into actual trouble. The previous Incel groups on Reddit were banned for stalking and doxxing women.

 

[Farm Boy]

The latter one, I guess.

Maybe maybe. Issue feels like old concepts with new terminology and social framework. The terminology is frequently fascinating, I'm less certain that the framework changes have been useful.

 

[Lexicus]

Spoiling this because it walks the line...as usual with incel content

Spoiler :

 

[Kyriakos]

There was a play by Aristophanes, where every Chad had to first have sex with female incels, before doing so with Stacy. The Thesmophoriazousae.

As usual, it takes barbarians upwards of 2000 years to catch up with quality memes

 

[red_elk]

Dictatorship of the sex proletariat and nationalization of the means of reproduction is the first step towards sex communism, comrades!

 

[Kyriakos]

Dictatorship of the sex proletariat and nationalization of the means of reproduction is the first step towards sex communism, comrades!

A brave new world.