[RD] Toronto van attack

There is no requirement that the system be coherent, consciously thought-out, or any other qualification really. We all have ideology, some are just unaware of having it.

You don't have a "system" of anything if it's not coherent. It's like saying the ideology of Johnny 8000BC is buttersauce whars suckle. You can make the case that "buttersauce whars suckle" is an ideology, but then what does that let us understand or anticipate? How is it different from say "whissy bon knuckle" as an ideology?

"Communism" constraints anticipation of human action a lot more than "whissy bon knuckle", so there's something to coherence in a system that matters.
 
You don't have a "system" of anything if it's not coherent. It's like saying the ideology of Johnny 8000BC is buttersauce whars suckle. You can make the case that "buttersauce whars suckle" is an ideology, but then what does that let us understand or anticipate? How is it different from say "whissy bon knuckle" as an ideology?

"Communism" constraints anticipation of human action a lot more than "whissy bon knuckle", so there's something to coherence in a system that matters.

I dunno, coherence is to some degree a matter of opinion. You can look at any ideology and find all kinds of logical contradictions, because your categories of interpretation are ultimately what produce things that appear to be contradictions.

For example, you and I would see "all men are created equal" and "enslaving all black people is totally okay" as obviously contradictory, but people in the 1700s did not because they were using categories of interpretation that excluded black people from being considered "men".
 
Novakart's posts: always the voice of sanity in the forum :thumbsup:

Oh, well probably a lot of people would disagree but thanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Born_Killers



Based on what I know this was clearly an act of inceldom-motivated terrorism. What do you know that I don't know?

A movie from the 90s?

I don't know much about this killing and that's why I'm avoiding jumping to conclusions. I don't really see a political goal here, which I think normally goes along with terrorism. Radical Islamist and Marxist terrorism or nationalist separatists movements have more of an ideology or at least some sort of goal besides internet memes and reddit posts.
 
The political goal is the incitement of an “incel rebellion”. “Incel” is a deeply political identity.
 
Yeah, incels really aren’t a joke.
 
A movie from the 90s?

The idea that Americans do not glorify mass murderers is just laughable. That movie is sort of about that. I can give the real-life examples of the things that movie is based on, if you like.

I don't mean to suggest that this is necessarily a uniquely American issue. I don't have enough knowledge about other countries to say that for sure. But I know enough about the US to know that it is, without any doubt, an issue here. A brief story might be instructive. Back in '99 there was this thing called Columbine, it was a school shooting where iirc 14 people were killed and a bunch more wounded. It is widely considered a 'turning point' in contemporary US history with regard to school shootings and mass shootings generally, with many subsequent school and mass shooters making reference to emulating or surpassing Dylan Kleboldt and Eric Harris, the shooters. What is so interesting about the case is that it worked. They left a record of meticulous planning which made it clear that their main goal was simply notoriety. And I know their names, and I would be surprised if you, a citizen of a country thousands of kilometers away, hadn't heard of Columbine. They are notorious. And this has basically developed further with more forms of media, such that going out by shooting a bunch of people is guaranteed to get your name in big letters all over the place.

American culture has a weird kind of fascination with violence. You can see it in the media, the existence of the saying "if it leads, it bleeds". I would say that I think it has been caused by turning war into a media spectacle which began in the Gulf War, but I think it dates back a lot further than that. It may be a weird cosmic reverberation from slavery and the genocide of indigenous people here...
 
I noticed that Canadian teenage girls often become afraid even if you don't do anything, just walk alone on the same street when nobody else is around. But it wasn't fun for me, rather sad - do I really look so scary?
I was thinking may be I should say something like "don't worry, I'm not a maniac", but considering my accent, not sure if it would help to relieve the situation.
 
@Lexicus 13 died at Columbine. And I think it our culture of violence is very much a product of our history of violence. America kind of exists solely because of violence, ingraining it into us and rationalizing it is kind of the only way our culture lives.
 
The idea that Americans do not glorify mass murderers is just laughable. That movie is sort of about that. I can give the real-life examples of the things that movie is based on, if you like.

I honestly thought you were going to lead with Fight Club, the Swimming Pools (Drink) of glorifying violence and hypermasculinity.
 
@Lexicus 13 died at Columbine. And I think it our culture of violence is very much a product of our history of violence. America kind of exists solely because of violence, ingraining it into us and rationalizing it is kind of the only way our culture lives.

Yes, though the difference between other countries and America in this regard is one of degree rather than kind.

I honestly thought you were going to lead with Fight Club, the Swimming Pools (Drink) of glorifying violence and hypermasculinity.

 
How about this, we're fascinated by violence because our society is constituted by violence in a somewhat unique sense?

edit: you know what nope, nevermind, not tenable
 
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The critique in Fight Club is a lot clearer in the book. The movie never really portrays the narrator as having his own sort of transgressionist character, he seems like he’s just trying to go along with it. This makes his betrayal of Project Mayhem seem liberal in character instead of anti fascist.
 
I've never seen or read Fight Club which is why I didn't speak on it before. I just think that post is funny. Took a bit of work to find it too.
 
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