TR03 - Losers self-teach DemiGod

[dmanakho]

Well, adding a closer town will make all the further towns more corrupt, true. But I didn't think the order towns were founded makes any difference in the overall corruption (aside from being used as a tie-breaker with two towns at the same distance) - all that matters is the distance to the capital and the number of towns that are closer.

That was true for PTW.
In C3C the order in which towns were built also play role..
That is why different towns at the same RCP radius have different corruption level in C3C. There is an article on C3C corruption i placed link in 5Grams SG to

 

[Minute Man]

Well, yes, like I said, if two towns are the same distance from the capital, then founding order is used to break the tie, and the first one founded has a lower rank. But for towns at different distances, AFAIK, the order in which they were founded doesn't matter.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I am not entirely sure about this. Alexman's calculations make absultely sense, and I've seen no btter model so far (besides, it is how it was intended to work, at least according to what has been said during beta).
Nowever, I notice in almost any game that captured AI capitals have less corruption than the cities surrounding them, even if those are closer to your Palace city.
For any cities founded later than capital, the founding date only applies in case of a tie - but IMHO not for cities founded at 4000BC.

 

[dmanakho]

Thanks, DocT!
I've never noticed it and this is something i never heard before...
Definitely a kudos for this piece of information.

 

[Minute Man]

That's interesting; I had never heard that either. All I know about corruption comes from Alexman's article. But I just looked at a couple of my old save games, and as far as I can tell, the corruption in captured AI capitals is about the same as the surrounding cities. Not really a large sample size, though.

 

[dmanakho]

@M-Man: You probably should update your signature

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I just checked a recent save where I was surprised about the corruption (from LK88; all cities have 2 corruption reducers btw, and are in WltKD; founding date in that order):
Moscow is distance 16 from the capital, no FP equivalent in between: 9/48
Leptis Minor is at 16, but next to 2 FP cities: 3/18
Argos is same distance, even close to a FP city: 5/19
No other cities at distance 16. Not surprising Moscow has a lower corruption than Argos, but the extent is surprising IMHO.

But:
Tihuanaco @13: 2/11

I admit, this does indeed not seem to differ from the proposed corruption formula - but, it indicates a lot of rounding issues are involved here. Moscows gets 14gpt from the Lighthouse tourism; thus, keeping cities with Ancient wonders is worth it. Corruption seems to be rounded up, not down; because of that, cities with mediocre commerce are substantially more corrupted than those with lots of. And since Ancient Wonders are usually found in AI capitals, I supposed those are less corrupt. Maybe they are, but I can't prove it from this sample .
In any case, the impact of a 4000BC founding date compared to a city at same distance founded in 1300BC (even if there are only a few cities at that same distance) is huge; in this example, the older city is about 1/3 less corrupt!

 

[Minute Man]

IHT - 2550 BC

Decide to go ahead with the warrior in Hattusas, since all those AI troops running around make me nervous. MM Hattusas to work the river for an extra gold, since we don't need the extra shield for a warrior. Agree that we need Tarsus more as a military factory than a settler factory, so will keep mining around there.

1 - 2510 BC

Russian SoD moves to the SE, so our settler has a clear path. A Dutch warrior is now in view of our western scout. William is up The Wheel but nothing else.

Nice thing about playing at this level...when a barb pops out of the fog next to your scout, you can run and hide behind one of the numerous AI warriors in the vicinity.

Move our settler south, and this is what I see...

What was that about not needing to worry about barbs, dman? Nothing to do but hope the Russians manage to take this guy out.

2 - 2470 BC

The Russian spear and first warrior take out barbs to their south, then the final warrior takes out that barb...with one hit point left. Whew. That'll delay our settling there by a turn, but it sure beats the alternative.

Hattusas warrior->settler. Tarsus warrior->warrior.

3 - 2430 BC

That darn Russian warrior fortified on the red dot to heal. I really should have seen that coming. So I'll found one space to his NE, as I don't want to waste a food bonus by settling on the wines.

4 - 2390 BC

Ugarit warrior->worker.

Writing comes in, and nobody else has it yet. OK, step right up, Minute Man's Tech Emporium is now open for business! Get Mysticism and The Wheel from the Dutch, Iron Working from Babylon, 197 gold (and not a penny more) from Portugal, 52 gold from Spain, and 42 gold from Russia. Osman is broke, so he gets left out.

Now for the bad news...we have neither horses nor iron. The nearest source of horses is right next to Moscow. The closest iron is by Guimaraes, which is just west of Ugarit...and Henry also has another iron and is within range of two more horses (both too far to our SW to be able to get). I wonder who our first war is going to be with...

Not quite sure what to research next, but with all these rivers around, our economy is doing very well, so I decide to gamble and go for Philo next.

Harran founded, set to warrior. Need to raise lux to 30% to keep Hattusas happy at size six.

5 - 2350 BC

Tarsus warrior->warrior.

6 - 2310 BC

Hattusas settler->warrior. Hattusas is now making 10 spt, so we can actually get a warrior and a settler in four turns. So I change Tarsus to a barracks.

Portugal and Spain now know HBR.

Our scout has uncovered not one but two flood plain wheats SW of Harran. I'm actually not quite sure what we're going to do with all that food, but I have to go for it. So I start the new settler off in that direction.

7 - 2270 BC

Hattusas warrior->settler.

8 - 2230 BC



9 - 2190 BC

Harran warrior->worker. Ugarit worker->barracks.

I'd like to use our new worker to connect the dyes, but a barb just wandered out of the fog to the west, so have to send him east instead.

10 - 2150 BC

A barb horseman comes out of the fog and kills our northern scout.

Hattusas settler->warrior.

Here's the current situation:

dman's green and blue dots still look good, though if we do settle on the blue dot, we won't be able to get the silks, as there's a Russian city whose borders have already expanded to claim them. We'll probably want a city near the red dot before too long, as it's be nice to have a port.

I left the settler unmoved so we can discuss where to send him. I recommend the green dot. If you send a warrior to accompany him, you'll need to raise lux to prevent Hattusas from rioting.

The other settler has reached the wheats, but I'm not quite sure where the best spot is to build the city. I think I'd go one more space SW, but where he's standing would work, too.

HBR hasn't spread any further yet. We are still up techs on Hammurabi (Wheel) and Osman (Writing), so there may be a trade opportunity there in the future.

I haven't established any embassies yet, but with all this available cash, maybe we want to? Still haven't figured out when the best time is to do that.

Roster check:

Tubby Rower - sunning himself in Chicago
Dman - bailed out by Cathy's boys
Minute Man - just played
Bede - up!
Mach - getting ready
AK - cutlass broken, searching for more durable weaponry
eldar - still maintaining a low profile

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

City placement isn't my forte. Haven't had coffee yet, still groggy. Plant 2 wheat city in place for later use as worker factory? Moving SW pulls in another hill, but building in place keeps the CxxC spacing which is nice for defensive purposes. Once the rax are up, maybe it's time to build some archers and go get some resources. Don't see the need to trade anymore until we get Philo.

 

[eldar]

At some point I'll have a look and make some (no doubt ill-advised) suggestions. My weekend was largely taken up with and and , and no Civ. Last night was back to COTM10.

I think a review of my current SGs is in order tonight, if my wife lets me!

Neil.

 

[dmanakho]

Good job M-Man...
The only one thing i would do differently - i wouldn't bother about that wheat
but rather go for blue/green dot cities instead. We have a lot of food already and right now we need shields and low corruption. Not saying it was a wrong decision, but that city won't do us much good for quite some time.

I am sure old friar Bede will figure out city placements .

I felt we wouldn't have neither horses nor iron...
Startup location was too good to be true already as it is.

I guess we will have to start a little war against Porto first to get us some iron and then move Dutches a little to claim those horses at some point.
But we will see how it goes.
I think another important city location should be W-W-NW from Tarsus.
That city will help cover all those tiles between Ugarit and Tarsus without need for culture builds and we will get extra luxes for trading purposes.

I would put blue dot city where it is... We will get those silks later. I'd rather have tighter city builds at the moment.

Oh, Have you guys noticed. Unless this is a large map we are definitely playing pangea again... I believe we've met 6 civilizaitons already on the same landmass.. It just can't be continental map.

 

[Mach]

Unless this is a large map we are definitely playing pangea again

According to the espionage screen, there's only one civ we haven't met.

 

[Bede]

Got it.

Following orders.

 

[Bede]

I am going to go ahead and settle the wheats as it does provide a springboard to the west and the horse resource and the shield potential is pretty good, too.

W-W-NW of Tarsus is a sound choice and will be next on the list after green dot then blue dot.

 

[dmanakho]

Oh Yeah....
It would be silly try to move settler from that location now...
Settle to grab those wheats...
What do you guys think we should do on research after philosophy??
Perfect situation if we could grab math before we have Philo and then get expensive Currency or construction as free tech.
Since it looks like we are going to have some early archer wars we may want to put research to 0 after that and start building stacks of spears/arhers/pults to get to the resources.
We really have to get hold of iron before MA and research will be skyrocketing

 

[Bede]

We already have a few turns invested in Philosophy so getting Currency as our freebie will depend on the trades available in the next five. Ideal would be getting to Philosophy then "Big Picture" trading for Math.

Not sure that setting research to 0 is best step as long as we have the cash on hand to support the research budget and the miilitary build-up. There is not much to do with cash in the AA before the government change anyway.

Concur that acquiring iron and horses is crucial.

 

[eldar]

Currency is a better bet than Construction - the AI will usually go for Construction first.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

After our Philo freebie I see two potential paths for research:
1. Min run at Lit while Harran prebuilds Glib or;
2. Max run at Rep (gotta grab horses to make this worthwhile)

Be nice if we could con Hammi into an alliance to get him into a GA.

To paraphase Mr. Murphy "Whatcha gonna do now d-man, done dropped your horses when you went out the window?" Looks like we have clear lanes for the wheeled stone throwers when the algebra permits construction.

With 4 scientific AI, initial MA trades and our own research are gonna be 'impotent' as Curly would say.

 

[dmanakho]

After our Philo freebie I see two potential paths for research:
1. Min run at Lit while Harran prebuilds Glib or;
2. Max run at Rep (gotta grab horses to make this worthwhile)

Be nice if we could con Hammi into an alliance to get him into a GA.

To paraphase Mr. Murphy "Whatcha gonna do now d-man, done dropped your horses when you went out the window?" Looks like we have clear lanes for the wheeled stone throwers when the algebra permits construction.

With 4 scientific AI, initial MA trades and our own research are gonna be 'impotent' as Curly would say.

Yeah... what am i going to do

Agree with Admiral... with 4 sci AIs we will have very hard time to level with techs after MAs start...
Great Library would work out nicely here and Harran is a good city to build it.
We can build granary in Tarus after all, build workers there and join them to harran to outperform AIs productionwise.
I am not proposing building Gr. Lib though, just a thought.

 

[Bede]

Edited to delete double-post, See next page for log.