TR03 - Losers self-teach DemiGod

[Minute Man]

I'm still hanging around, but I just started a new job a couple of weeks ago, which has cut back on my Civ time a bit. Besides, the ratio of trainers to trainees just keeps increasing in these games, so I don't generally have much to add that hasn't already been covered by my betters....

And after seeing what dman did to the Ottos in M7+1, I'm certainly not going to presume to give him tactical advice. FWIW, though, I agree with the prevailing opinion - weather the storm, get out of these wars, then go back to the business of sharpening our swords on our neighbors' helmets (note to the Admiral: somebody else's helmet, not your own ).

But the end result of this game will pretty much depend on how many mistakes players make in future.

Minute Man - on deck

We're doomed.

 

[dmanakho]

save...

pre-turn: revolted into republic and draw 4 turns of anarchy. redlined bab bowman. I wish we never had any MAs signed.

IBT. Lost archer.

T1. 730BC. vet. archer vs. reg anc.cav. -> 2hp anc.cav.

IBT. Our warrior kills warrior, anc.cav and gets promoted to elite.

T2. 710BC. Elite warrior attacks 1hp horse -> we get a leader. What the heck i am supposed to do with it Build a chariot army? i bet nobody than that before.
I'd say rush FP in Tyrana. Switch Tyrana to spear to avoid shield wasting

IBT. Lose 2 archers to Anc. cav.

T3. 690BC. Tyrana spear->FP. Rush FP in Tyrana. We lost silks.

IBT. Our brothers Portucal helped us greatly. One heroic swordman kills 4 dutch units before died. His death will be remembered and there are no Dutch troops on our territory left. Porto and Osmans signed MA against Babylon.
Russia and Ottomans signed MA against Babylon.

T4. 670BC Anarchy is over and we are republic. Trade wines + 72 golds to russia in exchange of silks.

IBT. Yes Yes Yes!!! Porto signed peace with Dutch. Dutch completed Pyramids.

T5. 650BC. Making peace with Dutch for 150gold. Time to get our cities back from Spain.

IBT. Situation just couldn't be better. Spain and Russia signed MA against Babylon. Spain built ToA.

T6. 630BC Declare on Spain. Remedial City recaptured. Golden Ages started. Failed to take Adana. Hattusha next turn. Everyone knows feud. now. WIll do self-research in 4turns.

IBT. Spanish sword dies attacking our chariot.

T7. 610BC. Both Hattusha and Adana re-captured. We are back where we were now some 20 turns ago. Time to shake Babylon.
But for now i want to complete all the marketplaces. Galley found an island with IRON. We won't get that iron until after Navigation. (ocean tiles to cross), but claiming it now would make sense.

IBT. Babs landed bowman near Kadesh.

T8. 590AD. just moving troops around. I'd like to build another city 2 North from Tarsus.

T9. 570AD. Killed that bowman. Rushed a market.

IBT. Spain wants peace.. Sure dear... give me that 119gold you have throw couple of cities and we have a deal.
Arrgh... Hatutas rioting.. it grew in pop and didn't built market yet.

T10. 550AD Feud comes switch high speed on Invention in 7 turns with budget deficit. Our Chariots should be ready to take Nineveh and a source of dyes in 2 turns.

Post-turn: Gems deal expires with russia, see how much they want for extension. If it is less than we would spend on bumping lux slider up then think about it. But remember we will have dyes connected soon.

1. So i say use lux slider for now and later we may trade those dyes and not spend money on it.

2. Make sure you use workers properly. Don't put piles of workers on the same tile... Admiral likes to make huge stacks of workers and assign them tasks like mining mountains in one turn This is waste, i explained why in one of the previous games.

3. Starve Hattusha with scientists, we don't want it to flip.

4. By the end of your turns I expect you to build markets and libraries (yes, you heard me right - libraries ) in each productive city we have, but do not forget about military.

5. Make sure you have that Pink Dot - Iron city built and hopefully raze Babylon. Show us your military talents. Bottom line - we want to see iron connected soon. We will need knights sooner than we think.

6. As soon as troop surplus is available enhance defence of our borders with Dutch and Porto. We don't want to be burned second time.

7. We need to re-establish settler factory. Right now we can shave settlers from all cities with markets that are about to reach pop 9 to prevent lux bumping. Lots of shields are wasted in those cities anyways. With Chariots we don't need that 15spt per city.

These are preliminary thoughts. I might add some more or change them later.
Suggestions are welcome. Minute Man welcomes those.

North:

This is the entire map.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Wait, I thought we were doomed?

Those large stacks of workers are cause I'm usually roading trying to get the swords to the front.

nice job, dman.

Re those MA's: try to avoid them at this level. Although there's a balance when you know the AI will make peace before the deal is done. Which is heavier grasshopper, a MA or an RoP? If we're not going south, maybe we want RoP with Willie?

Make sure you have that Pink Dot - Iron city built and hopefully raze Babylon. Show us your military talents. Bottom line - I want to see iron connected soon. We will need knights sooner than we think.

power of pink dots has been well documented. strongly suggest we proceed as indicated.

 

[dmanakho]

If we're not going south, maybe we want RoP with Willie?

Or may be my favorite - large stack of chariots/knights on the Willie's border 15 turns from now.

 

[Minute Man]

Good job, dman. Things are definitely looking up.

Got it, but I'm up in SGOTM6 as well, so I might need a little extra time.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Dman, why are you so down on the chariots. Aren't the Hittite chariots 2.2.2 That's better than a horse... good job though.

Take your'e time MM, if it's going to be later than Saturday then let us know and we can jump back to you.

 

[eldar]

They're still Chariots, and they can't go over mountains/through jungle without roads.

 

[Tubby Rower]

They're still Chariots, and they can't go over mountains/through jungle without roads.

Ooooh.. I see. I didn't think about that. thanks for the info. I guess that's my one thing that I learned this game!

 

[dmanakho]

Yeah, about the Chariots... I actually wanted to build horses, but horses were not shown as a choice to build in production line....

Or may i need a better glasses perhaps?

 

[Tubby Rower]

That's why I was building them. I thought that since they are 2.2.2 then they might replace horses but looking at the war academy, they replace chariots. I'm not sure what is going on.

 

[eldar]

You can't build Horses until after the GA has been tripped, because despite their wheeled nature, they're still a better unit than Horses.

 

[dmanakho]

GAs have been tripped indeed. IIRC, We were in GA since my turn 6

 

[eldar]

I see rumours going around that the Venerable Bookseller is a year older

In which case.... , Bede!

 

[Tubby Rower]

Yes...given his wisdom and mine....extrapolating when I will be as knowledgable......He's what 348? plus or minus a year.

regardless

 

[dmanakho]

Yeay!!!
i am joining the gang and congratulate an old friar one more time.

Happy Birthday Bede

 

[Lullaby]

/delurk:

3MC replace both chariots and horses. I'm pretty sure you still can't build horses after initializing your GA.

Greetz
Lullaby

 

[dmanakho]

Thanks Lullaby!

Here are the several strategic points on this game:

1. build more cities. the more the better. The same old reason - to shave as much as we can off unit support cost. So for the future we may want to implement Gozpel(TM) squeezing tactics. Again we will be required to re-establish a settler factory.
2. We are in the middle of landmass and i hate having two fronts. Once we take care of Babylon we should turn the opposite direction and start chipping piece by piece of Willie's and Henry's land and to avoid been backstabbed always keep some units on opposite border... Also it is a good idea to find another scape goat after Babylon and Spain is a really good target for that purpose. For example start war on Willie and Spain at the same time. Then Sign MA with Russia and Otto against Issy and let them boil in their own juices while we can concentrate on our primary target.
3. Self-research won't always work on DG level. We do it now because of GA. we will probably have to stop it soone after GAs end. We should pursue tech that AIs don't go after often. For example the trick Bede and I pulled in AK7 Opium barons game when we went after PP and Democracy and team managed to buy the rest of IA techs using those 2. I reckon we can do it in this game as well.

Please bring more strategic thoughts on the general flow of the game as well as tactical solutions.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I know that we have used #2 in the past but now that it is written down it seems to make more sense to me now

AS far as strategy, Russia is mired in the swamp & jungle. I hope that she cleans it up before we evict her, but I think that she should be last. I think that Otto has some nice territory in the north so maybe we could go in this order for expanding...

Hammi (current focus)
Willil (lots of nice land)
Henry (jungles but take one eldar's backs off)
Otto (more nice land in the north - maintain west coast)
Izzy
Cathy (hopefully jungles are cleared)

 

[dmanakho]

Tubby's order looks good to me, so unless AIs decide change our plans i'd say we follow that list.

We should use GA to get markets and libraries going and then start massive military build up. We should have a very strong core by the end of M-Man's turns.
Libraries in border cities that will be somewhat productive/temples (cheaper) in border cities that will be heavily corrupted (even with courts) for the land squeezing puproses.
Dedicate a city for settler factory (Hattusha??? so may be build a settler there instead of starving it??? i never looked at flip chances for that town). Shave workers of each city that reachers certain size.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Hattusha as I recall has the FP wheat. The only thing is does it have the shield power to produce settlers without rushing? Settlers out of there should be good since it was 4 when I gifted it. It's probably up to 7-8 by now.