TR03 - Losers self-teach DemiGod

[eldar]

Six: the magic number.

I reckon it goes like this...
1 Citizen = 1 Tile = 2 Gold (we're assuming a road, of course!)
Library turns this 2 Gold into 3 Beakers.
Bank+Market turns it into 4 Gold.

So, converting to a Scientist gives us at best no gain, at worst, lost beakers.
The Taxman is potentially even worse.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

@eldar - nice job on the cipherin'; it was way too deep for me and igor.

 

[Bede]

Meanwhile...



Usually I only manage my specialists when there is 1 turn to go on a tech -- then I turn scientists into taxmen until we're toeing that line. Why does it require management every turn?

Also, what is special about the number six?

eldar's ciphering has it right on the money when it comes to the magic number six.

As for obsessive managment, if I am looking to get every last gold piece, and that becomes important when I have standing armies to support or need to rush culture or troops, and I am doing fast research, then checking scientist assignment each and every turn minimizes the overrun on cost. Checking only 1 or 2 turns ahead often means you will end up spending the equivalent of 98-99% of an extra turn. Checcking every turn can reduce the overrun to 50% and if you are really picky you can get it down to <1%.

'Tis a small thing, you say, but once you get past Emperor it is the small things that matter.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

'Tis a small thing, you say, but once you get past Emperor it is the small things that matter.

Change that to Monarch and I couldn't agree more. Waiting until tomorrow so the grumpy old men won't kill me...

 

[Mach]

Sorry guys, I can't play until tomrrow night. (My gf just moved in, so busy busy busy. ) But I was able to look at the save, and...

I'd like to start in on the Ottomans, obviously. I don't like them. But also the Dutch have a city near France, far enough away to be irritating. I don't have much faith in the Portuguese ability to finish the Dutch quickly. Instead, I'd like to make peace with the Dutch for all their cities, leaving them their capital just off our coast, which we can easily finish off 20 turns from now. I think that might be faster than waiting for the Ports to take the last Dutch city. Our flip chances seem small enough to me...

We have an incense deal with the Ottos for 5 more turns, but once that's done I can take 3 cities on the first turn, including an incense city.

Also...

I still don't understand the significance of six. I understand eldar's post perfectly, it is why I was talking about the last or second-last golds being corrupt. (If neither are corrupt, and you have a library, it doesn't make any sense to use a specialist.) But he doesn't use the number six, just a few 1's, 2's, 3's, and even a 4... But I must be thinking too hard; I get the idea.

 

[Bede]

I'd like to start in on the Ottomans, obviously. I don't like them. But also the Dutch have a city near France, far enough away to be irritating. I don't have much faith in the Portuguese ability to finish the Dutch quickly. Instead, I'd like to make peace with the Dutch for all their cities, leaving them their capital just off our coast, which we can easily finish off 20 turns from now. I think that might be faster than waiting for the Ports to take the last Dutch city. Our flip chances seem small enough to me...

If you want to leave the Dutch alive I think it might be best to push their capitol as far away as possible, so go ahead and load up the caravels and raze the closer island towns, and push the capitol over to the French side of the world.

My thinking on using the Portugese on the Dutch had more to do with keeping Henry busy off shore. He has a bunch of carracks zipping in and out of the fog so obviously he is loaded for bear, or at least some off island conquest. Better he use his new cavalry on the Dutch islands than the French mainland.

We have an incense deal with the Ottos for 5 more turns, but once that's done I can take 3 cities on the first turn, including an incense city.

Should give you just enough time to beef up the cavalry count.

I still don't understand the significance of six. I understand eldar's post perfectly, it is why I was talking about the last or second-last golds being corrupt. (If neither are corrupt, and you have a library, it doesn't make any sense to use a specialist.) But he doesn't use the number six, just a few 1's, 2's, 3's, and even a 4... But I must be thinking too hard; I get the idea.

Scientist is three beakers. Library mulitplier is 50%, so six uncorrupted gold gets you three beakers. So to get the equivalent beaker count you need six....With only two you get egg-roll

 

[Mach]

Scientist is three beakers. Library mulitplier is 50%, so six uncorrupted gold gets you three beakers. So to get the equivalent beaker count you need six....With only two you get egg-roll

Aha! Ok, lesson over, thanks for it.

If you want to leave the Dutch alive I think it might be best to push their capitol as far away as possible, so go ahead and load up the caravels and raze the closer island towns, and push the capitol over to the French side of the world.

Well, I don't want to leave the Dutch alive; I want to take them out. I was just thinking the fastest way to do this (without delaying the Turk war) would be to take their remaining cities in peace (including their far-off one), leaving them as an occ just off the coast, and then simply taking that city in 20 turns. If I did this I was going to use the Portos against the Turks. But if the Portos already have a bunch of boats bobbing around...I'll follow your advice and sign them up against the Dutch, and see what happens.

Play tonight.

 

[dmanakho]

Instead, I'd like to make peace with the Dutch for all their cities, leaving them their capital just off our coast, which we can easily finish off 20 turns from now.

Don't make peace with Dutch - bad idea.
If you make peace and one or more city of theirs flips we won't be able to take it back in next 20 turns.
Follow Bede's suggestions, those are good.

 

[Mach]

I know, I examined this, and the flip chances are actually surprisingly small -- according to MapStat, the sum of the upper percentages for Dutch flips is just a bit over 2%, and that's before the resistance in Holwerd and Den Helder is quelled. I'll have time to quell that resistance, since I can't start the next war for 5 turns. That 2% number will dive even lower. So we stand a very good chance of getting through 20 turns without anything flipping. And even if one did...it wouldn't be difficult to retake it in 20 turns.

But I'm just talking. I'll take Bede's advice. I'm just saying I don't think it's a bad idea based on flips...

 

[dmanakho]

Agree chances are low. I never checked mapstat...
But there are also murphy laws that say:

• If anything can go wrong, it will
• If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong
• If anything just cannot go wrong, it will anyway
• etc...

 

[Mach]

• especially during my turns

The upside of making peace is: it'll get rid of our WW (which is currently managable, but still is more than 20% IIRC); I'll be able to bring pretty much all fast troops to the Turk front (since I won't be worried about retaking flips or defending against landings); and the Dutch will be occ easy pickins in 20 turns.

 

[Mach]

Preturn -- Hire some scientists in corrupt cities
I don't see any reason to wait, so I sign up the Portuguese against the Dutch for 14gpt
Start moving troops north

T1 (560AD) zzz
T2 (570AD) zzz
T3 (580AD) zzz
T4 (590AD) Position the troops...
(I) Portugal discovers Magnetism
T5 (600AD) Declare on Turks, sign up Portos & Russians against them

Take Ankara, no losses
Take Babylon, no losses
Take Edrine, lose 1 cav
I disconnect the Otto's salt

T6 (610AD) Bit of bad luck on the counterattacks, some retreats but no losses yet...
(I) We get ToG, but the Portos won't trade straight up, so I don't make the trade. Start on Magnetism, slowly.
T7 (620AD) Take Konya, no losses
Take Izmit, lose 1 cav
(I) Netherlands declare war on the Russians!
T8 (630AD) zzz
T9 (640AD) zzz
T10 (650AD) zzz

Pretty simple turns, sorry for the sketchy turnlog, but it was just building stuff, mm'ing stuff, and attacking stuff.

The Ottomans are pretty much gassed, they were attacking with med infs and longbows but that flood has stopped. I spent a lot of time looking at cities and mm'ing scientists and stuff, I hope I did ok there. Looking at f4, there's a lot of war out there in the world right now.

I managed to research ToG. The Portos wanted ToG and cash for Magnetism, and I wasn't happy with that so I didn't make the trade. That was probably a mistake because then the Russians got ToG and traded with the Portos, so we're down Magnetism. (Maybe that trade motivated the Portos to declare on the Russians?) I've been using our scientists to move a bit toward mag while our slider was making us money for the war. We have about 1000g built up, so maybe we can turn research back on now...

As Bede's infra builds have finished, I've switched cities over to cavs. Our corrupt southern cities I have on either growth or specialists. Northern cities are mostly on culture builds. We get Smith's in 5.

I hope I left things in a decent state, but I'm a bit tired so I apologize for any mistakes. I kept all the cities because the flip chances seem pretty manageable, I hope that's ok. Please tell me about any things I could have done better, I'd appreciate it. And good luck, A-K!

Teh Save

 

[dmanakho]

Nice turns from what i read from report.
Only one moderate mistake and you realised it yourself.
On DG level if you can trade - trade it.
You should have traded magnetism, other than that we are on the right path.

I was thinking that after Osmans are gone we probably should start quick war against russians to get their luxes and then combine our arms to wipe portugal.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Sorry I've been out. It sounds like things are going well. Also thanks to Bede on the MM'ing lesson. Here is an updated roster...

Tubby Rower
Dman
Minute Man
Bede
Mach - Started to stir things up
A-K - up
eldar - patiently waiting

 

[Mach]

Thanks dman, but I'll wait for people to look at the save before I start feeling good about my turns...

I looked (belatedly) and we can research Mag now in 4 turns, with +100gpt. Really shoulda traded it...

 

[dmanakho]

And if we want to end this game with domination/conquest win we can stop research...
AIs will never have time to research Infantry and until that time cavalry will roll over everything on it's way.
But i am not sure if we ever thought what victory type we are after.
At this point this game is practically over (in terms of it's clear we are the winning team) and we just need to finish it up.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Will we have enough tiles for Dom after gaining our starting pangea? If so I'd say stop research and let's beat the TR01 date if we can. We are currently @ 550AD IIRC. It will be tight but we should be able to come close.

If we won't be able to reach domination without settling other continents then we will need mag I believe to get armies across the seas.

 

[dmanakho]

Magnetism comes in 4 turns, IIRC....
But i am fine with any victory type outcome.

 

[Tubby Rower]

But i am fine with any victory type outcome

WHAT!!! the war-mongering dman is willing to go something other than Domination??? I'm shocked!

Do you think that we could beat an 820 date? If so I think that we should try. If not we could milk this as long as the team wants to.

 

[eldar]

As I stated in TR02 - I'm happy to stop with Domination. In an individual game, you'd be deciding which way to go (though for a science-oriented win, a few more Unis would've been built as well as serious swings at Newton's and Copernicus in the same city).