Trait comparison game 2 - America.

[Earthling]

Alright so I knocked out the first checkpoint concurrently with lunch, I'll probably wait to see what others are up to before going on tonight or tomorrow.

Spoiler :

Settled in place, Animal Husbandry reveals we have horses as well. First AI met is a scout by JC, warrior heading South finds Ghandi:




Went a standard opening into founding my second city, New York to the north so it can work the fish and horses.



Tentative Northern dotmap:


A little while later I think I have plans for the South...



But a barb city throws a monkey wrench into things:



Back on the home front with the early stone this game was an absolute breeze to get the Pyramids - my capital works on them:



Fourth city up, I've founded all pretty close around the capital cause the land fits, no reason not to:



And the mids are finally in, that's it for my opening:



AI don't seem too threatening at all, I should get plenty of GS, seems like a cruise from here on out. Protective trait won't matter all too much.

 

[Duckweed]

I'd take JOAO for a go.

 

[Single Malt]

Checkpoint 3, Peter of America, 900AD (a little later than I wanted, but I was a little preoccupied).

Spoiler :

Well, I decided to use my GS for the immediate gain, as the next was not far away (PHI is great for the early GP's). I bulbed Maths. Turned out to be a good choice, as when Alphabet became available, I could trade to monarchy. From 500BC I also decided to prepare to invade Gandhi, for the big prize of the double holy cities, of the dominant Religions on the continent. I closed borders with Gandhi when JC asked (I did not want to face prats), and as soon as JC declared on Gandhi, I followed suit, pillaging his only strat resource on the way (horse). Sorry, I forgot pic of DoW.

I went straight for the Capital, as that was the big prize. I then hit the city to the west of it (Bombay), and 2 turns later Gandhi capped to JC.

I remembered pics after, here they are.
the empire first:

My capital

My GPfarm:

The newly captured Shrine city (soon to be double, as I am working 3 priests to get that ASAP):

The tech Adviser:

And finally the demographics so far:


I did not take the fin adviser, cos I was in anarchy, having just switched over to Judaism. I am going to make the switch to caste system soon, to make use of PHI and generate lots of GS's as I beeline Lib.

 

[Duckweed]

To 875BC or may call it checkpoint 1

Spoiler :

Settled 1S, riverside city is always preferred without the risk of losing food tiles. Although it turned out that I lost the horse tile by doing this, I don't regret.

Tech:
AH->Mining->Wheel->BW->Pottery->Writing->Alpha

Capital:
Worker->Barrack->Warrior->Settler at pop3->2/3Warrior->Charioits...

A capital with 2 gems is no doubt worth an army and the maintenance fee for a distance city, my warrior came in and grab the free worker as the bonus.


The fall of Indian capital -- a double holy city


Alpha is in, I can make peace with Gandhi with merely 2 techs


Empire of 4 cities


875BC Tech

 

[budweiser]

Someone else can take Bismarck if they want. I just dont have much time this week.

 

[Earthling]

Well, haha, this time it seems like I get to be the odd one out. Slight spoiler

Spoiler :

Everyone else is invading Ghandi, while I went for the early wonder build.

Anyway, here's my 2+1/2 checkpoint, up to 600AD

Spoiler :

So after Pyramids are in the obvious goal is to get scientists up and running wherever I can. While I get libraries up, settle another city or two, here's some other happenings:

So far no civ is hogging any world wonders - they're split between random civs.



Some minor conversions back on forth between Hindu/Judaism never led to anything. Ghandi gets a shrine.



The first Great Scientist settles in the capital - since it's low commerce and I'm not running 100% science I judged this better than a first academy.



With a force of axes I finally clear out the barbarian city, with the intent to settle my own elsewhere, to avoid Ghandi's cultural pressure and all. But Ghandi heads after the site anyway, which provokes me into a slight skirmish to keep him away. Ghandi is the weakling on the continent by far but I didn't feel like killing him so that was that for this war. Unfortunately, Ghandi later peacefully vassaled to Stalin (who has a TON of land on his own little mini-continent) but I should be able to handle them both later.



1 AD Overview



My tech path didn't involve getting alpha very early and so I paid the price in none of the AI's getting it either. So trading started very late, here's the first time I got things going.



But what was I teching then? Well, a quick CS and then to Literature for the Great Libary, another massive benefit to tech.



I also picked up the Artist from Music for a free GA.



The second scientist finally makes that Academy. In the meantime, the continent is finally united under hinduism and I get my more southern cities up and running pretty well - everything is farms so far



At 600AD I figured I've progressed enough for this checkpoint. I decided to go pick up the AP cause I can - I may decide to be devious (declare + capture Ghandi's cities and force peace before Stalin arrives to help) but at any rate I wouldn't sit well with the stupid AI having it. I should have a very quick path to liberalism or whatever else I want, thanks to very OP Pyramids + GL tech.

That's it for this checkpoint; I definitely won't be going too far ahead of everyone, but checkpoint 1's are kinda boring and I suspect real divergence will begin in this timeframe for others - good luck to you all too.

 

[nanomage]

i'll be bismarck, then.
and yahoo! i accept congretulations for defending a diploma and graduating from intitute! that's why i have now some time to play this out.

 

[Duckweed]

To 1AD

Spoiler :

The major decision for this set is that I let Gandhi survive. This eliminates the possibility of being declared by Stalin before Gandhi dies. Things turned out to be better, Gandhi became JC's vassal in 1AD. My only menace now comes from JC and he lacks metals.

Tech:
Currency->Math->Priest->Aes->Lit

Wonder:
Grabbed mids and GLH, HG and GL is ongoing.

1st GS was born in 425BC


1AD Empire of 7 cities, room for another 2 good sites


1AD Tech

 

[Duckweed]

To 1080AD Liberalism/Checkpoint 4

Spoiler :

Tech:
The tech trade sucks, Stalin is totally useless for trading. Even worse, JC and Stalin chose very different tech path and this make many techs become monopoly. Moreover, It seems that JC is unwilling to give out the monotech to his vassal. I have to trade for Calender from AI in the other continent in 1070AD! It's a mistake to delay the Compass so lately, until I started building harbor, I realized that it's half price with expansive trait.

Drama->Music->MC->Med->CoL->CS->Paper->Phi->Edu->Compass->Optics->PP(1GS)->Lib takes Astro (Although no one has Edu and Phi, I might be able to get something like AL as last Emperor game. But Astro immediately boost the empire income and I'd like to stop now.)->Nat


Wonders:
Grabbed HG, GL, and US, AW is 1 turn left.

1080AD Empire of 9 cities


1080AD Tech Again, Emperor AIs' tech are horrible.


I don't know what can be concluded from this kind of comparison? Will Joao be the strongest leader ?

 

[euripides]

Congrats for graduating nanomage, did it too just 3 months ago.
Anyway, played the first segment as Pacal. Now I´m off for sports and thereafter I´ll present my results. (Have to register at photobucket finally for some screens)

 

[Single Malt]

Peter of America, checkpoint 4 Lib, 1360AD

Spoiler :

A few turns after the war on Gandhi ended, JC went wheoohrn and the turn after declared on me. I ended up losing bombay (which was fine by me, as it was recieving massive cultural pressure from JC. I did have a devious plan however, because a few turns later stalin was at pleased, opening this option:


It proved to be a fruitful allegiance, as Stalin like me more than JC now, and more importantly he took the Indian city below Delhi, relieving all the cultural pressure from Gandhi. JC took that city shortly after, but as long as I can work both gems I am happy there. I gave JC paper and a world map for peace, although he wanted Delhi (over my dead civ I say). Later a few trades opened with Stalin, not the best, but any trades with that fellow are welcome (he really doesn't like trading, WFYTBA before even one trade with him)



I was first to lib, took nationalism.
the savisers at 1360AD:



and finally the double shrine city

I am currently teching to steel, but think a derail to optics is worthwhile, as I need tech trade options.

 

[Earthling]

First, definite congrats to nanomage.

@Duckweed - haven't read your third update, however, looking at your game combined with mine did make me remember something curious:

Spoiler :

Is it because of Emperor difficulty or are the AI just really slow getting wonders this game? I really haven't played Emperor much for a while and they don't start with a worker right - I guess that's hurting them? I remembered that before I got mids, only the GW and Stonehenge, very recently, were built. The Oracle actually came after as well - AI civs got the GLH and HG which I didn't aim for, but I didn't think too much of it at the time. However in your game it seemed it took the AI even longer in a couple of cases. Considering the main "competition" other than Russia seems to be on the other continent, I wonder what differences I'll see in my next turnset.

 

[titanvol]

I'll try Pacal, but I'm a fairly slow player / limited time, not sure how long it will take me to play

actually, nevermind, truthfully I just won't have time to play this anytime soon

 

[Duckweed]

First, definite congrats to nanomage.

@Duckweed - haven't read your third update, however, looking at your game combined with mine did make me remember something curious:

Spoiler :

Is it because of Emperor difficulty or are the AI just really slow getting wonders this game? I really haven't played Emperor much for a while and they don't start with a worker right - I guess that's hurting them? I remembered that before I got mids, only the GW and Stonehenge, very recently, were built. The Oracle actually came after as well - AI civs got the GLH and HG which I didn't aim for, but I didn't think too much of it at the time. However in your game it seemed it took the AI even longer in a couple of cases. Considering the main "competition" other than Russia seems to be on the other continent, I wonder what differences I'll see in my next turnset.

I think the answer is that both the difficulty level and wonders count. Wonders like GLH and mids do give player significant advantage. I usually grab many wonders when I play Immortal or below. The date that Emperor AIs can build those wonders is 500~1000 years later. So IND trait is a top tier trait for both getting the wonders or building wonders for cash since many more wonders will be opened for player then.

 

[Earthling]

That wasn't really what I was asking - unless you thought denying an early wonder further slowed the AI down, but neither of us took Oracle or GW or something. I guess this isn't really a spoiler, just general discussion, so anyone else on this game - have the AI seemed early, late, or on time with the wonders? And again it seems to me there's one civ on the other continent who's behavior is varying the most, I'll have to see when I meet them, I'll be sure to mention that if so.

 

[Duckweed]

^I answered your question --

The date that Emperor AIs can build those wonders is 500~1000 years later than in a deity game.

So basically, GW, SH would be around 1500-2000BC. Oracle and mids are usually built in 500BC-1000BC.

GW and Oracle actually do not affect the game that much as GLH and mids.

 

[Crusher1]

Mehemed through 1000 AD.

Spoiler :

Early tech Path:




Build Order:

Worker, warrior, barracks, warrior, settler @ 3 pop, 6 Chariots (maybe 7?), worker, TGL in NY @ 975, Pyramids in Washington in 775 BC.

Later tech path was: Writing, Alpha, Currency (350 BC), CoL (before 1AD), Calendar (100 AD), CS, Asthetics, Literature, Drama, Music, Paper, Education (660 AD), Philo, Liberalism.

Great People: 7 1GS - academy, 2GS - settle, 3GS - settle, 4GM - settle, 5GA (Free Music) - settle, 6GS bulb Education, 7GS - GA

Strategy: Attack myself into a big chunk of land then use 2 key wonders, Mids and TGL to mass expand. Those were the only 2 WW I made. After I killed Gandhi I used Washington, New York, and Delhi to mass produce settlers while Bombay and Viynagara mass produced workers (5 turns). Each city producing settlers took around 8 turns or 200 game years, and with 3 cities for that purpose, expansion was quick. Every city which is not at a low population has been running 2 scientist and or spies non stop. I've been getting theaters in place and plan to make the City above Bombay The Globe Theater. There will be some fun whipping/drafting taking place pretty soon. Gonna be able to mass some sick units.

My power was low but Caesar and Stalin ended up sharing an early religion and when Stalin demanded I switch, of course I did - which enabled me to focus on mass expansion. Delhi is the only city with cottages while everywhere else is mass farms. Every city but 2 has a CH thanks to ORG and The Forbidden Palace knocked off over 25 gold per turn. I currently have no Markets in any city but do have 4 Universities.

Next priority is compass and harbors. Too bad there are only 2 AIs on this Island and that I'm too lazy to go towards Astro cause I could be getting some sick trade.Scouting - too lazy - who cares. Besides, that's what world maps are for. I've been massing war elephants and plan to take over my continent with elephants/Cannon then win via space race.

There might not be overflow for gold but I still believe in mass expansion and once you get rolling you'll be a beast.

 

[nanomage]

hi.
thank you for congatulations!
i've finished bismarck game, but i've got a problem with screenies - screenshots seem to not work under wine .
However, i'll write a report in a few hours and post some screens after reopening my saves in Windows.
some thoughts about wonder timing and trait effects here

Spoiler :

early wonders really to go later this game.
i haven't played Emp quite much, but i remember they were built much quicker when i learned it
i figure it's because Stalin isn't that keen on wonders, and Bismarck (not me, the other Bismarck has quite a poor start location - low food. But once he gets online and links his marble he may build something. Stalin wonderspammed in my game, too, but he started later - in classical era.

actually, at least with Ind/ trait, in this game it is possible to both rush Gandhi and build 'mids. i'll try this without Ind later and maybe someone else tried.

Apart from mids+india rush, Ind trait seemed not to be decisive here, i just built the wonders which i was the first to research.

i think i'll try to load your saves and try to derive something from them tomorrow

 

[euripides]

Hi, I played as Pacal as annonced yesterday. first set went to 25AD (missed 1 AD)

Spoiler :

T1 Place looks food-poor, but production-rich. Decide I want more grass (seen in the fog SE). Settle 1 SE on the river plains tile and get wheat as a bonus. Start worker and tech AH
t10 Buddhism FIADL (Gandhi)
t13 AH in start mining > BW
t15 worker completes, move for 1t Farm SW, next turn on the wheat. Meet JC from the west. Start 2nd worker
t18 find Gandhi close to the SW
t20 Wheatfarm completed, switch to warrior till growth
t26 Cow pastured, swap back to worker production. Plan on blocking Gandhi at super GPFarm
production after 2nd worker: warriors (2,5 total)
t35 growth to 3, swap prod to settler
t37 BW in, start TW > Pottery. Chopping 2 trees
t40 settler in, more warriors
t45 found NY as my blockcity to the SW

t52 Pottery in, start Myst, spawnbust is complete on my peninsula (thanks to TMIT for advertising this technique). Revolt to slavery
t58 Myst in, start writing
somewhere around t60: found Boston to the west (1N of the Copper)
t68 Writing in, start Alpha at 0%
t69 Buddhism spreads to NY
t75 Library in NY > 2scientists asap
t76 Library in Washington. More workers and settlers while working my cottages
t77 Meet Stalin from the SW, GW BIADL, go 100% on Alpha
t78 Oracle in Delhi
t80 JC converts to Buddhism
t83 Found Philadelphia to the NE for sheep, horses and fur
t85 Open borders with Gandhi, 2workers start road to enable traderoutes
t88 Alpha in trade with Gandhi (-1 worst enemy trade with stalin), Julius doesn´t want to depart any techs for Alpha. Start currency


t92 First GS born in NY (575BC), open borders with JC

t94 Academy in Washington
t97 found Atlanta (Commerce-city with cow and horses)
t100 Pyramids BIADL, cash in 142 gold
t102 currency in start Aest
t107 Aest in, start Poly > Lit(no trades possible due to JC going Alpha Currency as well and snagging my techtrades with Gandhi)
t109 Convert to Budhism
t110 beg Priesthood from Gandhi
t111 Literature in, start Monarchy, start GL in NY
t112 trade Aest around, getting Monarchy, Sailing, Mono and 75 gold, start Maths

t114 revolt to HR/OR
t115 found Chicago to NW for Fish&lake
t116 save for segment 1(25AD). Producing wealth, I can get around 80 sustainable bpt, 95 at 100% research
to date, my military consists of 6 warriors, 2 chariots and 5 Axes

Gandhi is pretty squeezed, i´ll take him out first, probably with steel from lib (if possible)

thats my city screen, producing mostly wealth. I plan on overflow whipping into the GL

I hope spoiler and pics are working fine as this is my first writeup here!
added saves: t085 is shortly before Alpha, t116 is 25AD

 

[euripides]

Okay, this is how my 2nd segment went. tech is very nice, but trades are scarce, well you´ll see

Spoiler :

T117 I envy Stalins starting spot. Well no picture, as you´ll all know this floodplains area
t121 CoL in start CS
t125 sell health resources for 11gpt
t127 trade Con for CoL with JC
t130 GL in (375AD)

t131 CS in start Music
t132 insert Med(1t), JC bulbs Philo, stalin builds AP in Hinduism
t134 2nd GS bulbs Philo
t136 Music in(first), starting a GA, whipping some buildings (OR), revolt to Buero/Pacifism. Start paper, look on techscreen: OMG, Gandhi got CS and traded with JC for Philo it seems, trades will get tough. Maybe no steel from lib
t138 Stalin declares on Gandhi, my chariot monitors the frontlines
t140 Paper in start Compass. Looking for possible trades it seems JC is teching paper as well (he will only give me 30 gold), the sucker
t141 Compass in start Edu, trade Paper for MC with Gandhi as JC just teched it

t146 3rd GS bulbs Edu, start Gunpowder
t147 trade Compass around


went from Gunpowder to Lib, notes don´t say which turn
t155 trade Machinery from JC for Drama/Music, reaching wfybta with him

t159 Sell Gandhi Edu to get Machinery, otherwise I have tech it myself, definitely no steel from Lib, trying for Chem

t160 4th GS bulbs PP, insert PP(3t)
t161 Gandhi vassals to JC, dragging him in vs Stalin. This is just just perfect for my planned backstab on Gandhi. Noone can declare on me now. I send JC away

t162 PP in resume Lib(1t)
t163 Lib takes chem, start steel(11t), as well, Oxford is just 12 turns away

well all right, my CE seems to work out atm, now i need the production to hammer my continent.

Spoiler :

Actually debating with myself if rushbuying is an option, but I think it will take too much time. I have to hit very soon on Gandhi/JC to get more land.

just one quick question, how do I change my game language?? atm all pics are in german you may have noticed... thanks for help!