Travelling in China

[Birdjaguar]

Suggestions for traveling in China:

• Use WeChat: everyone there uses it for everything. Get you friends and family back home to download it too. You get free calls to any other WeChat user in you friends list regardless of where they are. With it you can also translate Chinese messages and have conversations (of a sort). WeChat pay is used to pay for everything: food, taxis, admissions, goods and services if you tie it to a bank account. None of the Chinese I met carried any cash. Keep in mind that WeChat is not secure; someone is paying attention.
• Go to China Mobile when you get there and get a Chinese phone number (new sim card). That way you don't have to use wifi to stay connected. $20 bucks gave me 3 GB of downloads and it lasted weeks. I still have usage on my sim card. Once I had my number, I was always connected.
• Don't count on any of your non Chinese apps to work. Next trip I will add Baidu so I can use its search and maps.
• Gmail and google don't work in China. I couldn't get Safari to work either.
• I could only use my CC in Beijing. I could not get cash with it. Chinese atms require a six number pin. Just carry all the cash you will need. Life will be easier.
  Use Chinese currency (rmb). No one took US dollars.
• Ask for help; people are friendly and will try.
• The SayHi app is pretty good for carrying on simple conversations.
• If you know where you will be staying, get the hotel name address and phone umber written out in Chinese characters so you can show it to taxi drivers or others.
• Nihao (knee how) Hello and Xie Xie (shay shay) thank, you are your friends. Use them regularly.
• Drink bottled or boiled water to be safe.
• I ate from street vendors
• Travel by train
• I used guides in Beijing and Zhangjiajie. They cost $80-100 a day, but solve all the transportation and how to get around issues for you. Chinese cities are huge and getting from one place to another can be huge time wasters. Zhangjisjie park was big and complicated. My guide shepherded me through the intricacies of getting around with ease. I can recommend good ones in places where I used them.
• Western toilets are not found in many less popular places. Squat toilets (with no TP) for the ladies and urinals and squat toilets for the men. Squat toilets on a bouncy slow train are a challenge.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Suggestions for traveling in China:
Western toilets are not found in many less popular places. Squat toilets (with no TP) for the ladies and urinals and squat toilets for the men. Squat toilets on a bouncy slow train are a challenge.

The entire Asia except for Japan is now a no-go zone for Mouthwash
You should see hes thread and endless complaints about primitive barbaric backwards Austrian toilets.

Suggestions for traveling in China:
Drink bottled or boiled water to be safe.

About half of all Chinese water is contaminated to some extent
Like street food it should be alright for tourist, the locals repeated exposure and ingestion is a long term health risk.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Western toilets often come with the pricier hotels in out of the way cities; $50/night. All my hotels had them; I would think that the hostels and other low end places don't.

 

[Birdjaguar]

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-toilet-revolution/index.html

I happened across this today. They have a long way to go.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Even though all the signs everywhere say 'toilet', and you speak to a chinese person who knows english, they might not know what you mean when you say 'toilet'. W.C. or latrine is what may work.

I stayed in an apartment with in-laws and they had a sit-down toilet. Problem is the cover was a thin plastic thing and not hard porcelain or whatever it that most house toilets over here have. So the first night I closed the lid to sit on it while putting lotion on my son's face and CRACK!

Of course exchanging money at the bank gives better rates than at the airport or hotel, but during the Chinese New Year all banks are closed, and that's not just for a weekend but a week at least (and you would need some money for taxi and stuff before getting to the bank anyways).
We didn't exchange what little we had left when leaving (and we'd return after a couple years anyways), but signs I saw say you can't exchange chinese money without a receipt, so keep that receipt from when you first exchanged money!

 

[innonimatu]

Is it customary, like here, in the west, to barter (*bargain) during serious business negotiations? Do the Chinese play this game at all and if yes - in what way? I am interested because I feel I'll have to deal with Chinese companies sooner or later, I'm curious how far can one push within boundaries of locally recognized dignity.

Used to visit Cairo on a business trip in '00. We weren't expected to talk business first week. A bad taste, the intermediary explained. Instead, we visited couple of weddings, got drunk few times and visited many people before getting to the point of selling them some russian timber. Anyway, they saw it like this - if you're a friend there is no reason to burden yourself with trust issues, or at least I grasped it that way, in retrospect.

As far as I have heard and seen done, you are supposed impress them with some luxuries they no not easily get to enjoy there, either because of official morals or import difficulties (these having become rare). In plainer language, politely bribe them. Having established "goodwill", then negotiate. But don't waste a whole week doing that, time is money for those guys.

 

[plarq]

It is a good country, but it doesn't have internet...
Digital nomads in China will become digital exiles if they don't cater to Chinese market...

 

[Birdjaguar]

Zhangjiajie Park, home of the "avatar mountains" that inspired the hanging mountains in the movie. This peak was used in the movie and is called Hallelujah Mt.

 

[Birdjaguar]

As far as I have heard and seen done, you are supposed impress them with some luxuries they no not easily get to enjoy there, either because of official morals or import difficulties (these having become rare). In plainer language, politely bribe them. Having established "goodwill", then negotiate. But don't waste a whole week doing that, time is money for those guys.

I had a different experience. Small gifts were/are given after successful meetings where something was accomplished: special tea; other local food, nothing of real value. All the business people we met with (probably 100), first goal was to build a relationship (often rooted in fancy lunches) and then follow up the face to face meetings with an exchange of documents that build towards a formal proposal. If our prospective clients have a deadline, then they want to move fast to meet it, but otherwise it seems they are not in a hurry to rush into a deal without getting to know us better. for example, we met with the head of a large family that wants to build a tourist attraction to open within 5 years. but he has a family meeting in June where they will make planning decisions. He asked for a one page, bullet point proposal right away. If he likes it, he will invite us and pay for us to attend his June meeting so we can meet the planning team. At the other end of the spectrum, we had a fellow tell us that he will send us a proposal in a month or two after he has reviewed some of our material. It is hard to generalize. We've been in contact with the city government of Ganzhou since October; but once we showed up on their turf, they rolled out the red carpet and offered four different ways we could work with them. We are working on proposals now.

We see the following steps: Introductions by trusted colleagues, meetings, exchange of information by both sides, meals, handshakes and photos (lots of photos), followup docs; proposals, negotiations, deals. We are being careful because this is our first venture into China and we want to make sure that all initial deals go well. They will be the foundation for the next round. Everyone has to win.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Even though all the signs everywhere say 'toilet', and you speak to a chinese person who knows english, they might not know what you mean when you say 'toilet'. W.C. or latrine is what may work.

I stayed in an apartment with in-laws and they had a sit-down toilet. Problem is the cover was a thin plastic thing and not hard porcelain or whatever it that most house toilets over here have. So the first night I closed the lid to sit on it while putting lotion on my son's face and CRACK!

not surprising. Asking about toilets is where an app like SayHi can help.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The whole 9 dragon Wall:

 

[dutchfire]

Was this your first time there? If not, have you seen changes over time?

I strongly support these:

Suggestions for traveling in China:

• Go to China Mobile when you get there and get a Chinese phone number (new sim card). That way you don't have to use wifi to stay connected. $20 bucks gave me 3 GB of downloads and it lasted weeks. I still have usage on my sim card. Once I had my number, I was always connected.
• If you know where you will be staying, get the hotel name address and phone umber written out in Chinese characters so you can show it to taxi drivers or others.

It is usually wise to have some toilet paper in your backpack.

Street food is fine, I would avoid any uncooked food (e.g. fresh fruit).

With European bank cards, we had no problems with ATMs. European cards have PIN anyway.

A few years ago, Google products worked for me, but that was mostly on internet connections aimed at foreigners. The amount of internet enforcement also varies over time.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Yes, this was my first trip there, so I haven't seen changes over time. I do know that without a vpn, lots of non Chinese apps don't work. The amount of construction that is going on now is truly amazing. New building is going on everywhere. New subways, new roads, new rail lines, new apartment towers, landscaping everywhere.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I also never saw an accident. Keep in mind, these are cities of 2 to 8 million people.

I did, but there were fewer this time than last time I was there. A couple fender benders, and then when we were leaving for the airport at 3-4 AM there was a car who smashed into a construction barrier/wall (it was 8 feet high, but only like an inch thick), after that accident along that same stretch of road there was at least 3 other spots with a busted out section as if a car ran into it.

About those 'timer stoplights'. At least twice when the countdown started (going from red to green-10 seconds), there was a motorbike from the far right lane making a left turn all by himself into the empty intersection.
Saw plenty of people on motorbikes texting while driving, at least the motorbikes drive slower (most of the time cars were driving about 40 mph and motorbikes 25 mph). Car drivers I couldn't see any texters because of tinted windows.

 

[The_J]

Use WeChat: everyone there uses it for everything

Just for the record: The chinese government is probably monitoring that.
Therefore not recommended to use when you don't have to.

(with no TP)

...how...er... are you supposed to bring your own...or...?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Just for the record: The chinese government is probably monitoring that.
Therefore not recommended to use when you don't have to.



...how...er... are you supposed to bring your own...or...?

The government is for sure monitoring it. Just be careful what you say. Don't criticize or reveal stuff you want private. As for TP, the hotels use small rolls, so I snagged it from the hotel as needed.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I did, but there were fewer this time than last time I was there. A couple fender benders, and then when we were leaving for the airport at 3-4 AM there was a car who smashed into a construction barrier/wall (it was 8 feet high, but only like an inch thick), after that accident along that same stretch of road there was at least 3 other spots with a busted out section as if a car ran into it.

About those 'timer stoplights'. At least twice when the countdown started (going from red to green-10 seconds), there was a motorbike from the far right lane making a left turn all by himself into the empty intersection.
Saw plenty of people on motorbikes texting while driving, at least the motorbikes drive slower (most of the time cars were driving about 40 mph and motorbikes 25 mph). Car drivers I couldn't see any texters because of tinted windows.

Absolutely, scooters, bikes and cars ignore what we would consider normal rules of the road. See that video posted above. It certainly appears totally chaotic with "push your way" being the main rule. Many/most major intersections have no controls at all and people just make their way along turning right and left from any lane regardless of oncoming traffic and pedestrians. Slow speed help. And there's lots of horn honking too.

 

[Bamspeedy]

The horn...one of my brother in laws was always cutting people off, but he faithfully always did honk his horn before doing so. I really should bring a dashcam next time, but that might just encourage him to be worse (though I can't see how that would be possible without a guaranteed accident, I lost count how many times I could have reached out the window and touched the car next to us).

Number 4 is unlucky in China and considered 'death', so there is no 4th floor in a building but instead it is 3A. Same goes for apartments. The highrise only had 32 floors, so I don't know if floor 44 would have been 3A3A. Saw an abandoned house with collapsed roofs with '4' spraypainted outside the door. Speaking of which, the rural areas had phone #s spray painted like graffiti everywhere.

Constantly offered cigarettes. Can't see it really happening in a business setting, so I'm guessing Birdjaguar wasn't offered any? But when drinking with relatives I got offered a cigarette too many times to count, often while I still had one in my mouth. Came home with 4 packs (80 cigarettes). The 'no smoking inside' thing hasn't hit China so people are smoking everywhere.

The amount of construction that is going on now is truly amazing. New building is going on everywhere. New subways, new roads, new rail lines, new apartment towers, landscaping everywhere.

Add shopping malls, the city already has one and they are building another. The 'online shopping' craze hasn't hit China yet.
Prices have gone up, my wife was shocked when prices of clothes at the mall were not all that different than what they are in the states. I think she had been hoping to come home with a whole new wardrobe for the kids. Part of that could have been the new years (prices are higher), but prices aren't close to the US on everything, as our kids still got haircuts for $3-4 (and told after new years it's probably cheaper).

Imports
Saw at least two different brands of Dutch butter cookies, and might be mistaken but I think I saw a third brand advertised on TV. The women in my wife's family who did drink, drank Budweiser (or a wine cooler). While the kids did get a bunch of cheap toys, one of them being Paw Patrol figures, the colors are so off they are obviously cheap knockoffs (Rubble wearing red, Marshall wearing yellow)

 

[Birdjaguar]

The horn...one of my brother in laws was always cutting people off, but he faithfully always did honk his horn before doing so. I really should bring a dashcam next time, but that might just encourage him to be worse (though I can't see how that would be possible without a guaranteed accident, I lost count how many times I could have reached out the window and touched the car next to us).

Number 4 is unlucky in China and considered 'death', so there is no 4th floor in a building but instead it is 3A. Same goes for apartments. The highrise only had 32 floors, so I don't know if floor 44 would have been 3A3A. Saw an abandoned house with collapsed roofs with '4' spraypainted outside the door. Speaking of which, the rural areas had phone #s spray painted like graffiti everywhere.

Constantly offered cigarettes. Can't see it really happening in a business setting, so I'm guessing Birdjaguar wasn't offered any? But when drinking with relatives I got offered a cigarette too many times to count, often while I still had one in my mouth. Came home with 4 packs (80 cigarettes). The 'no smoking inside' thing hasn't hit China so people are smoking everywhere.

Add shopping malls, the city already has one and they are building another. The 'online shopping' craze hasn't hit China yet.
Prices have gone up, my wife was shocked when prices of clothes at the mall were not all that different than what they are in the states. I think she had been hoping to come home with a whole new wardrobe for the kids. Part of that could have been the new years (prices are higher), but prices aren't close to the US on everything, as our kids still got haircuts for $3-4 (and told after new years it's probably cheaper).

Imports
Saw at least two different brands of Dutch butter cookies, and might be mistaken but I think I saw a third brand advertised on TV. The women in my wife's family who did drink, drank Budweiser (or a wine cooler). While the kids did get a bunch of cheap toys, one of them being Paw Patrol figures, the colors are so off they are obviously cheap knockoffs (Rubble wearing red, Marshall wearing yellow)

I was in cars a lot and had the same experience. After a while I just got used to it and paid no attention to how the driver drove.

There was only one meeting where smoking was an issue. It was a last minute dinner with an official who was building four different specialty towns (each was probably at least 500,000 people) he invited me, my translator and two of his friends. They smoked the entire meal and offered us cigarettes. As is typical, the meal was in a small closed dining room. Pretty terrible.

Somewhere I have a picture of a McDonald's that is up on a plateau at Zhangjiajie Park. It was huge, probably 50 yards long. Half a football field. I heard that in the summer, it is always packed.

 

[Bamspeedy]

We went to a McDonald's and it had two levels, the one level was bigger than a typical McDonald's, so the upper level doubled that. It is always packed. But the bathroom was insanely small in comparison (two toilets in each bathroom if I recall correctly and men and women have to share the same sink located outside the bathrooms).
The buns were a little different and a few other minor changes to the menu, but the same thing happens at Chinese restaurants here as they adjust the menu to western tastes and preferences.

Doing market research really makes a difference when expanding into a new country. Look at the difference in success between Pizza Hut and Dominos:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_in_China

Prior to entering the market, Pizza Hut performed market analysis and research into consumer food preferences, tastes, and dining habits, whereas Domino's simply entered the market providing their standard fare.[5] With its planning and research, Pizza Hut was successful in its endeavors, opening over 1,300 stores in the country, whereas Domino's was rather unsuccessful, with under 40 stores in China in 2014.[5] At the time, Domino's provided the company's delivery guarantee of thirty minutes or less, but did not take into account many Chinese cities' heavy vehicle traffic and gridlock.[5] Domino's lack of success in the Chinese market has also been attributed to the chain's fare lacking appeal to Chinese consumers, not having sit-down restaurants (Domino's stores were take-out and delivery only), and the large size of the company's pizzas, which made them difficult for consumers to eat while walking or hanging out on the street.[5][7]

Prior to establishing restaurants in China, Pizza Hut management was told by experts that many Chinese consumers do not like cheese and may not be able to digest it.[8][a] The company's management was also informed that tomato is not a culinary ingredient in China.[8] Per these factors, Pizza Hut was warned that Chinese consumers would not eat pizza.[8] In response to this, Pizza Hut modified their pizza recipes, using less tomato sauce and cheese and including indigenous ingredients that were agreeable to Chinese consumers, such as tuna, crab sticks, soy sauce, chicken and corn.[8] The company also created new pizzas for the Chinese market, such as the Homemade Sweet and Creamy, which resembles apple turnovers, and the Thousand Island dressing pizza, which lacked tomato sauce.[8]