Shadylookin
master debater
Inter32 said:
If your belief is illogical, has credible evidence against it, and you die out of your own sheer stuborness then no I do not.
True cristhianity
- Thread starter Saga of Gemini
- Start date
If your belief is illogical, has credible evidence against it, and you die out of your own sheer stuborness then no I do not.
Shadylookin
master debater
Inter32 said:
christianity and paganism(most of christianity is borrowed from paganism)
biblegod's morality(he seems to be quite vicious and mean)
why christianity and not some other religion
Why jesus doesn't die for the sin of unbelief? Why did he have to die at all? Seems like a lot of work when God could just decide to say hey I'll let sinners in.
why biblegod needs/wants my worship and if I don't give it to him even if i'm moral why should I go to hell.
Why do the gospels vary if they are supposed to describe the same event and are direct word of god. If they say there are errors why believe the whole story since it could also be filled with errors
Noah's Ark. Do I really have to explain here a man and his family built a boat and fit 2 of every living creature on a boat, when today the US navy is lucky to fit 5000 men on some of the biggest structures ever. Especially when you take into consideration that some animals are many times larger than humans(elephants, hippos, various primates, dinosaurs the list goes on and on) How would he collect all of said animals as well. Then since biblegod flooded the earth to kill off his creation what did they eat when they got off the boat(sure water is good for plants but not a flood covering all the earth. The best question is why not just kill the wicked instead of doing all that.
Why can you say about biblegod if he created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and told his creation not to eat it, but being omniscient knew they were going ot eat it. Then he punishes all of their decendence.
virgin birth, come on now were not 5 year olds. Besides even if it were possible the child of a virgin would have to be a woman because since there was no sperm there would be no sperm carrying a y chromosome meaning it would have to be a girl.
There are no secular references of Jesus until after the 2nd century(by that time the legend had probably gotten around.
I don't know if anyone else is going to call bull, but I am.
The 250,000 was apparently my faulty memory from a long distant JW conversation on my doorstep. Please tell me the significance of the 144,000.Saga of Gemini said:
Perfection
The Great Head.
That's a thousand gross people! 
I hope you are only counting them.Perfection said:That's a thousand gross people!
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
I haven't read the entire thread. There is no way I am going to read it all, so I will give you my POV.
Only God knows what Christianity used to be. It was about 2000 years ago. Things happpen in 2k years.
Only God knows what Christianity used to be. It was about 2000 years ago. Things happpen in 2k years.
Shadylookin
master debater
Zarn said:
so why continue to be a christian?
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
Shadylookin said:
It may be correct or mostly correct. No one here can tell you what is absolute truth concerning religion, yet few will admit that they can't.
Shadylookin
master debater
Zarn said:It may be correct or mostly correct. No one here can tell you what is absolute truth concerning religion, yet few will admit that they can't.
or you may burn in the 9th circle of hell. I know the truth and it's that I don't know, I see no reason to submit my will to a deity/ies that won't spend 5 minutes of their time to tell the entire world that they exist. They're busy you say, well good for them I guess that means that we have been doing fine on our own and they probably don't care if we worship them/it and won't bother punishing us in an afterlife. Then again it may be a sadist in which case he isn't worth my time.
Could this diety have a different set of expectations or plans for the universe than you (or I) suppose? Could the world be unfolding just as it should be? Perhaps you worship him as he wants already and there is no need for you to submit to anything. I would think that any real god would have things well in hand with or without our support.Shadylookin said:
Shadylookin
master debater
Birdjaguar said:
then good for the deity, but I still don't care.
that's one possibility or as it written in scriptures at first everyone knew God and with time staryed to worshiped the creature rather the Creator. So paganium came for the true worship of God. (later called christianity)Shadylookin said:
religion is based on works or trusting in one's work. christianity is a love relationship with God
Jesus Christ die to fulfill the law. He die for all man's sins. the sin of unbelief will deny you of the only remedy
Bible never states that God needs our worship yet it the other way around. We need him and this is why you are a unbeliever since you feel you don't need him. God isn't going to force anyone to love Him. Worship is for those who been saved. It's an act of thankgiving. God doesn't want the worship of unbeliever which is exactly why Cain offering was rejected by God. Jesus told his disciples " If you love me , keep my commandments."
because human being can watch the same event and can still see things differently. Also God uses imperfect people and I'm thankfull he does. The whole point if God required perfection out of his people there wouldn't be anyone saved. I love my church but my church isn't perfect.
I also wonder why God do this or that. Of course I just as puzzled about why do women act as they do.
an omniscient being could see all possible paths and futures. Of course there nothing necessary wrong asking "why?". There are many thing I'll like to know.
of course this come down to : is science and mathematics the ulimate reality. science doesn't seem to be man's salvation. science offeres no hope to a dead man.
If you think about it , this makes a lot of sense. First at the beginning the church was poor and many of the disciples was in prison when they wrote the new testament. I doubt the Romans gave Paul the high quality paper
to write to the churches.( cheap paper in that day wouldn't be around today) the early church still mostly used old testament. the printing press wasn't invented yet. most of these letters was send to diffirent churches and are heavily used. After the disciples was gone and sure these letters showed wear and tire , it would only make sense that this letters would be collected and wrote together to make the new testament.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
Shadylookin said:
Most human suffering is caused by other humans. It has nothing to do with a deity, since humans have some control over themselves.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
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Refreshingly good post, Zarn!
You shouldn't. Life is tough enough, the last thing we should be worrying about is whether or not god has his act together.Shadylookin said:
Shadylookin
master debater
scriptures have as much worth to me as the paper I wipe with and flush down the toilet. You'll have to do better.
dodging the bullets doesn't work here, your god is not a loving person read the bible if you don't believe me. Let's see killing babies, appointing murderers, promoting destroying villages and raping the virgin women, and slaughtering the innocent. Oh and if the worldly wrongdoings weren't bad enough he's going to send a large portion of humanity to hell. If that's love what's hate?
I thought god made the laws not man, why make such illogical ones? Why not just forgive people with out the BS
truer words were never spoken
the humans that wrote the bible never saw the events, it was all just heresay. Why does god use imperfect people, can he not write his own book correctly? If he doesn't like imperfection he should have made it, if god doesn't like me because I don't believe in him it's his fault he's the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient deity I shouldn've have to do the work.
You didn't answer the question how did they build a boat so large that 2 of every animal could fit on it and how did they get all of those animals accross oceans and such so they could fit on the boat. Also it is quite unlikely that 2 of each animal would be enough to restart the population. Women act the way they do because of hormones, now that you know the answer to the age old question I hope you can resign yourself the fate of never being able to understand women.
trying to justify a sadist actions eh?
yes it is what it all comes down to. without science most of my family(probably me included) would be dead, the best jesus has done is try and kill me with boredom from the fiery sermons where I have to listen about why I'm going to hell. Religion offers no real hope at all.
I think the saints rising from the dead would make big headlines, instead it got nothing. Jesus's diciples never wrote the gospel(if I'm not mistaken) and by the accounts of the new testimate none of his diciples witness his crucifiction anyway. Therefore the only witnesses they have to go by are the jews and roman officials(ya those corrupt people, you really want to trust them)
of course, when did I say differently?
Saga of Gemini
Golden Saint Overlord
Shadylookin said:
As simple and with the same weigth of what u said my response is: "No it dosnt" deal with that
Why? didnt your dad ever punished u? Did he enjoyed punishing u? or did he did for your own good?
Theres no objective answer for that if thats what u are looking for.
Thats because you are assuming God dosnt plan things and he does whatever he wants in whatever order he wants to. The bible says he is a god of order ( how else could the universe be so ordered?) The main problem is that what u believe comes from the dogma and little knowlededge u think u have teached by other christhian folk therefore this thread was created by me to at least edit the true and false critics made to God.
hell dosnt exist. the key word is need why do u assume he need too?. He let us do it out of undecerved misericordy.
And why would u go to "hell" ? often the simpliest logic works against the complicated philosophy...why does your dad punish you when u disobey him? does he needs for u to obey him? certanly not. The answer u give me...I will proceed from that.
because the apostols were different persons and with different proffesions, the way a lawyer describes an event is different from the way a medical doctor will. But they say the same.
Thats like asking a painter why didnt he do his painting this way or that way.
About the food they didnt came out rigth away they spend years in the ark. All the details are not given so u can assume whatever the hell u want.
Once again Shady omnisence dosnt mean future sigth. If u can see the future u can choose not too. u can be omniscent of the present and past timeline. The future has infinit variables like: "if I wake up at 9:31 or at 9:32 things will differ.
Plus he does not punish us...imagine he had destroy adam and eve rigth tere then what about us? we would have never been born and we could have never had the chance to decide if we wanted to follow him or rebell like our parents. Its not punishment its a gift that we are alive even when things are like this.
U seem to mold the bible to make critics however u please. Now we know a virgin can get pregnant rigth?. Well if God is omnipotent and omniscent ( how u present him whne u wanna make critics about him) then whats the problem of he doing that?. im srry but if your going to take the bible god actions without reffering to his atributes and reffer to his atributes whenever u feel u can make a critic about them...its a simple 2 standard speech.
Not before ppl complained. plus if u look at Jesus miracles he didnt do them for publicity as a matter of fact he did them and told the person to saty in silence.
When the gospel was written the persons that knew jesus and the apostols were still alive so they could easily stop the lie. Plus the jewhis autorithys had a lot of power back then if the story was just a legend and so they would have never let it extent in such a way.
i will in what u think your way of reasoning and your double and hypocrite speech.
Saga of Gemini
Golden Saint Overlord
Birdjaguar said:
Well its no significance....its just 144.000 ppl. This ppl have the chance to go to heaven and live there and be the judges of humanity ( since what better to judge a human than another human that has had the same or similar problems?)
The fact that they are going to heaven dosnt mean they are the only ones who are saved. why? well the reward offered in the bible to humans is not when they die to go to heaven its to live here on earth as a paradise...restoring Eden. after armaggedon happens and all that stuff.
And thats it.
Shadylookin
master debater
Saga of Gemini said:As simple and with the same weigth of what u said my response is: "No it dosnt" deal with that
denying reality seems to be your speciality doesn't it.
It's irrelevant because my father never killed, raped, tortured, or attacked me for simply disagreeing with him(neither has your god for that matter because he doesn't exist). My father is also not omnipotent or omniscient so he didn't have the power to make me perfect.
well if your just going to give up.
he would have to do whatever he wants whenever he wants otherwise his claims of omnipotence are false.
I think you have to believe in hell to be a "true" christian
They are not the same please read the bible.
What's wrong with asking them that. You also didn't answer how it was possible either.
they didn't spend years on the ark. What kind of christian are you, have you ever read the bible.
Once again Shady omnisence dosnt mean future sigth. If u can see the future u can choose not too. u can be omniscent of the present and past timeline. The future has infinit variables like: "if I wake up at 9:31 or at 9:32 things will differ.it means infinate knowledge so yes it does mean he has future sight. and an omniscient being being able to forget is a twisted paradox. Also if it doesn't mean he has future sight how does he know Satan won't beat him? How do you know the prophecies will come true if your only source for them doesn't have future sight?
in not killing Adam and Eve he proved himself a liar and the serpent a teller of the truth. I don't believe Adam and Eve existed so the existance of a fairy tale doesn't matter to me. Of course if Adam and Eve were really our great great... grandparents and god killed them then we would have never existed. Non-existance was never a problem with me, sure I like life but if I never existed I wouldn't know the difference and it wouldn't matter.
If I a mere mortal can point out his idiocy what does it say for him.
Why would an omnipotent being knock-up a jewish girl while she was asleep? I smell a rape charge.
told them to stay in scilence so people can't get into heaven? Sounds more like a man that's afraid people might attack him. What makes you think the lies came around his diciples time? Doesn't it seem more likely that if it was a joke they would let it spread because they didnt' think people believe the lie anyway.
i will in what u think your way of reasoning and your double and hypocrite speech.
I can't be a hypocrite because I don't believe in god, the bible, or christianity. I just make these post to humor myself because I have nothing better to do.
