Ralph_Jackson
Emperor
OK Got it.
Ralph
Ralph
Try-04: Lonely Civs and Bismarck the Builder
- Thread starter Trynthlas
- Start date
Ralph_Jackson
Emperor
Well so S.Ilver doesnt feel alone in a wee bit of New Year ranting I will join the Club.
Maoi Rushed with a Great Engineer. This one I really dont understand. Yes our GEs will be used to rush wonders but..
1. Maoi is not on our critical wonder list so we can slow build it as required
2. Its accelerated by stone so rushing with a GE is inefficient. I think with judicious whip overflow we could have built it pretty fast anyway even in its low hammer city
So we should save GEs for
1. Non stone accelerated wonders. With Industrious we can be first to any stone wonder we beeline as it is on our must have list
2. Wonders that need to be in a certain city that doesnt have the hammers to build it normally. The only current candidate here is the GL as we want our GP points concentrated and that means putting it in Munich which unsurprisingly is hammer poor.
Workers. Now we have a decent number of them but
1) they should be working together not singly building parallel improvements in a city
2) What is this one doing building a cottage that wont be worked for ages when we have happiness issues and unimproved Dyes in our BFC??
So on with the plan
Now we are researching Alphabet ostensibly to let us bulb something with a GS which wont arrive for ages. Last time I checked we were Bismarck the Builder not Bismarck Pepys Man of letters. So I switch to Metal casting to get our discounted forges up and running to help with Building Wonders and when gems come online giving us a happy boost. I will finish off Alphabet after this but Forges come first..
With the Barb city eliminated Dortmund is founded and will soon be cottage Heaven
A Tao Missionary is dispatched to ensure its Border Pop. We could slow wait for religion spread but as we can see with some cities it can take ages so I prefer to bite the bullet and dispatch Missionaries.
Now we should note we are not the largest Civ (unsurprising with lots of our hammers going into Wonders) but this means with the rest of the AI potentially tech trading happily away we may also start falling behind in tech until we make contact with them, reinforcing the need for Optics.
With Cologne building a Settler for the Gems site I decide to just dump Hamburgs Hammers into the Museum of Massolos. Far from a bad wonder and even if we lose the race it will generate somecash for us.
Whereas the GL is a must have so gets accelerated in Munich as we are nearing the period for the AI to build it.
Which also gets a whipped in forge (the other cities can slow build forges quickly enough)
Having finished Metal casting and Alphabet I start on Machinery for Optics and stop when the settler arrives at the Gem site so the team can discuss whether we want to settle it straight away (workers on their way). I would for the happy boost from gems and as it will very quickly pay for itself.
EOT
Cheers
Ralph
Maoi Rushed with a Great Engineer. This one I really dont understand. Yes our GEs will be used to rush wonders but..
1. Maoi is not on our critical wonder list so we can slow build it as required
2. Its accelerated by stone so rushing with a GE is inefficient. I think with judicious whip overflow we could have built it pretty fast anyway even in its low hammer city
So we should save GEs for
1. Non stone accelerated wonders. With Industrious we can be first to any stone wonder we beeline as it is on our must have list
2. Wonders that need to be in a certain city that doesnt have the hammers to build it normally. The only current candidate here is the GL as we want our GP points concentrated and that means putting it in Munich which unsurprisingly is hammer poor.
Workers. Now we have a decent number of them but
1) they should be working together not singly building parallel improvements in a city
2) What is this one doing building a cottage that wont be worked for ages when we have happiness issues and unimproved Dyes in our BFC??
So on with the plan
Now we are researching Alphabet ostensibly to let us bulb something with a GS which wont arrive for ages. Last time I checked we were Bismarck the Builder not Bismarck Pepys Man of letters. So I switch to Metal casting to get our discounted forges up and running to help with Building Wonders and when gems come online giving us a happy boost. I will finish off Alphabet after this but Forges come first..
With the Barb city eliminated Dortmund is founded and will soon be cottage Heaven
A Tao Missionary is dispatched to ensure its Border Pop. We could slow wait for religion spread but as we can see with some cities it can take ages so I prefer to bite the bullet and dispatch Missionaries.
Now we should note we are not the largest Civ (unsurprising with lots of our hammers going into Wonders) but this means with the rest of the AI potentially tech trading happily away we may also start falling behind in tech until we make contact with them, reinforcing the need for Optics.
With Cologne building a Settler for the Gems site I decide to just dump Hamburgs Hammers into the Museum of Massolos. Far from a bad wonder and even if we lose the race it will generate somecash for us.
Whereas the GL is a must have so gets accelerated in Munich as we are nearing the period for the AI to build it.
Which also gets a whipped in forge (the other cities can slow build forges quickly enough)
Having finished Metal casting and Alphabet I start on Machinery for Optics and stop when the settler arrives at the Gem site so the team can discuss whether we want to settle it straight away (workers on their way). I would for the happy boost from gems and as it will very quickly pay for itself.
EOT
- Settle Gems ?
- Finish Monastery before continuing with Shewadagon. Personally I would let the Monastery hammers decay a bit as SP is on our must have list.
- Note there is a Missionary nearly finished to keep Essen happy.
- Need to whip in National Epic in Munich when it gets unhappy but it has been busy with getting its forge and popping Missionaries up to now.
- I would guess we finish the Optics beeline and get caravels in the water a.s.a.p. They should either have a Tao Missionary on board if we meet Civs without a religion or an Explorer for popping any huts we find on Islands.
Cheers
Ralph
Well, as far as the two workers going at it separate, that city isn't big enough yet to work those tiles anyway, and by the time that it is, both workers will be done 
Missing the dye is just 
On the GE for Moai, I suppose we could have waited and just done it slowly with whip overflow and such. I don't think it's a big waste, though - that city will be more productive more quickly with it already in place.
On the AI civs, most of them should be isolated as well (one or two may have been able to make contact without optics). Hence "Lonely Civs" I don't think we'll be too far behind in tech.
Missionary is on board to spread religion if we can and make buddy-buddy with some AI who could be our future Permanent Ally that the variant says we need.
Missing the dye is just On the GE for Moai, I suppose we could have waited and just done it slowly with whip overflow and such. I don't think it's a big waste, though - that city will be more productive more quickly with it already in place.
On the AI civs, most of them should be isolated as well (one or two may have been able to make contact without optics). Hence "Lonely Civs"
I don't think we'll be too far behind in tech.Do it.
Finish the SP, that's why I bumped it over the Monastery in the first place.
Optics and caravels ASAP
Missionary is on board to spread religion if we can and make buddy-buddy with some AI who could be our future Permanent Ally that the variant says we need.
cripp7
Playin' Bored
yes settle
yes, that's where a GE would be handy
ok, keep'm coming
whip forge so overflow goes into NE
or use those both for exploring new civs with OB
S.ilver
Emperor
My thoughts...
The GE on Moai is fairly disappointing, but not fatal. It's always good to have it up faster, but burning a GE on it is not what I usually do... By and large I agree with most of what Ralph had to say about it. I'll add a few of my sentiments though.
-The GE was lightning striking twice, so it's not like we burned a Great Person that we had planned for something else (that's another thing though, because we should have discussed and nailed down what we were using the GEs for).
-Ralph pointed out some worker near Essen. It also reinforces that we could have slow built it with some whip overflow, because the city has a hill and is not completely helpless without Moai (unlike other sites that I sometimes choose). I see 5 natural hammers in that town, multiplied by stone bonuses, and of course we would've whipped the forge ASAP to get that bonus (and we are obviously Bismarck the Builder).
I have minor concerns about the fate of Munich. The way it was going earlier, it was our obvious earmarked Oxford site. However, when it became the Taoist holy city, things became more interesting. If we ever get a Great Prophet and put the shrine up, we'll be hard pressed to find another city to put Wall St in, and the problem there is that now merchants and scientists will be competing for the city's food resources. Just a minor thought though, and we may not have to look at it if we never get a Great Prophet.
On Ralph's points:
1. Yes, we are hurting for the happiness, and the gems will rapidly pay for themselves.
2. The Paya is more important than a Monastery IMO. We have basically ignored religious techs so far, so we need a route out of Paganism, and waiting until Liberalism for FR might make us some enemies.
3. Cool. We need lots of missionaries actually, as our religion doesn't seem to be spreading rapidly (probably because we lack the holy city building).
4. See above: Oxford vs Wall St. I THINK we should be ok with Oxford, as it doesn't seem that we're going to pop a prophet, and I guess that could just be extra gravy.
5. I agree completely. Get those missionaries out there so we have some options for PA partners.
The GE on Moai is fairly disappointing, but not fatal. It's always good to have it up faster, but burning a GE on it is not what I usually do... By and large I agree with most of what Ralph had to say about it. I'll add a few of my sentiments though.
-The GE was lightning striking twice, so it's not like we burned a Great Person that we had planned for something else (that's another thing though, because we should have discussed and nailed down what we were using the GEs for).
-Ralph pointed out some worker
near Essen. It also reinforces that we could have slow built it with some whip overflow, because the city has a hill and is not completely helpless without Moai (unlike other sites that I sometimes choose). I see 5 natural hammers in that town, multiplied by stone bonuses, and of course we would've whipped the forge ASAP to get that bonus (and we are obviously Bismarck the Builder).I have minor concerns about the fate of Munich. The way it was going earlier, it was our obvious earmarked Oxford site. However, when it became the Taoist holy city, things became more interesting. If we ever get a Great Prophet and put the shrine up, we'll be hard pressed to find another city to put Wall St in, and the problem there is that now merchants and scientists will be competing for the city's food resources. Just a minor thought though, and we may not have to look at it if we never get a Great Prophet.
On Ralph's points:
1. Yes, we are hurting for the happiness, and the gems will rapidly pay for themselves.
2. The Paya is more important than a Monastery IMO. We have basically ignored religious techs so far, so we need a route out of Paganism, and waiting until Liberalism for FR might make us some enemies.
3. Cool. We need lots of missionaries actually, as our religion doesn't seem to be spreading rapidly (probably because we lack the holy city building).
4. See above: Oxford vs Wall St. I THINK we should be ok with Oxford, as it doesn't seem that we're going to pop a prophet, and I guess that could just be extra gravy.
5. I agree completely. Get those missionaries out there so we have some options for PA partners.
Roster:
=======
cripp7 - on deck
S.ilver
Trynthlas
Ralph_Jackson - gave Tryn theand just played
altonhare - UP
alton, you good to get it?
Yep, I'm good, I got it.
I don't know how to do the "spoiler" thing everyone else is doing. I don't know how to get images of civ4 on here.
Turn 157: Settled Stuttgart, start granary there. Whip taoist missionary to send the extra hammers to NE. Assign priest specialist to stagnate growth at the happy cap.
Turn 158: Taoist missionary pops from Munich and sent to Stuttgart. NE started in Munich. Workers sent to Stuttgart to improve a few tiles asap.
Turn 159: Taoism autospread in Cologne.
Turn 160: Start building farm on corn next to Stuttgart.
Turn 161: Forge done in Cologne. Monastery started there. Worker sent to dyes outside Dortmund.
Turn 162: Machinery discovered. Compass started.
Turn 163: Essen completes forge. Courthouse started. Workers finish farm on corn, moved to gems.
Turn 164: Great scientist pops from Munich, sent to Dortmund to build an Academy. Taoist missionary spreads Taoism in Stuttgart.
Turn 165: Road built on gems outside Stuttgart.
Turn 166: Compass discovered. Optics started.
Turn 167: Monastery done in Cologne, harbor started there. Library done in Frankfurt, courthouse started there. Workers continue cottaging Stuttgart.
Turn 168: SP completed in Berlin, auto switches to monastery. GS arrives in Dortmund.
1) Switch to organized religion?
2) Burn GS on academy in Dortmund?
3) Berlin complete monastery (as opposed to going for another wonder or building a harbor maybe).
Turn 157: Settled Stuttgart, start granary there. Whip taoist missionary to send the extra hammers to NE. Assign priest specialist to stagnate growth at the happy cap.
Turn 158: Taoist missionary pops from Munich and sent to Stuttgart. NE started in Munich. Workers sent to Stuttgart to improve a few tiles asap.
Turn 159: Taoism autospread in Cologne.
Turn 160: Start building farm on corn next to Stuttgart.
Turn 161: Forge done in Cologne. Monastery started there. Worker sent to dyes outside Dortmund.
Turn 162: Machinery discovered. Compass started.
Turn 163: Essen completes forge. Courthouse started. Workers finish farm on corn, moved to gems.
Turn 164: Great scientist pops from Munich, sent to Dortmund to build an Academy. Taoist missionary spreads Taoism in Stuttgart.
Turn 165: Road built on gems outside Stuttgart.
Turn 166: Compass discovered. Optics started.
Turn 167: Monastery done in Cologne, harbor started there. Library done in Frankfurt, courthouse started there. Workers continue cottaging Stuttgart.
Turn 168: SP completed in Berlin, auto switches to monastery. GS arrives in Dortmund.
1) Switch to organized religion?
2) Burn GS on academy in Dortmund?
3) Berlin complete monastery (as opposed to going for another wonder or building a harbor maybe).
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Got it! I'll take a look at this save and come up with a plan.
I say with the GS either bulb Philosophy or save to bulb Education and beeline to Lib. So tech path finish Optics>Currency>CS>Paper>Edu(partial bulb?)>Lib (discuss what tech at that time). Maybe pickup engineering for castles(+1tr)
Builds, finish courts, coastal cities work on caravels and maybe a few missionaries in case we meet a civ without a religion, or a scout/explorer to map out islands. Once the slider is up some, start settling the rest of the island
I say with the GS either bulb Philosophy or save to bulb Education and beeline to Lib. So tech path finish Optics>Currency>CS>Paper>Edu(partial bulb?)>Lib (discuss what tech at that time). Maybe pickup engineering for castles(+1tr)
Builds, finish courts, coastal cities work on caravels and maybe a few missionaries in case we meet a civ without a religion, or a scout/explorer to map out islands. Once the slider is up some, start settling the rest of the island
alton, in the post window when you make a reply, there's a row of buttons along the top - just hover your mouse over each and it'll tell you what they're for. Spoiler is the last one on the right, click it and put anything you want in a
box inside the tags.
Images I host on my own web space, and then use the image tags (insert image button) to tell it where the URL for the image is.
Spoiler :
Images I host on my own web space, and then use the image tags (insert image button) to tell it where the URL for the image is.
Save comments:
- Berlin is still configured for max hammers, but we now have +3 happy available and no real need for the extra production. Let's switch the tiles around and assign some more specialists. I'm thinking like this:
- By doing that, Berlin will beat Hamburg to the next GP no matter what, so I'd advocate whipping out the NE for max overflow when we can .. put it into a Harbor to increase the healthy cap, and it will regrow quick enough that our specialists there will be up and running again in no time.
- Essen needs a Harbor and/or Aqueduct after the courthouse. (and a library after that)
- Dortmund is ridiculously low production, it could possibly steal the plains hill that is in its BFC for more hammers, or we can just whip stuff. Otherwise it looks to be on the right track. (library->courthouse) and (chop jungles and plant cottages)
- Academy for sure in Dortmund with our GS, I think.
- Cottage spam and gem mines in Stuttgart! (already looks like we're doing that)
- We're still in Paganism!!!!
Let's get into OR or Pacifism asap (I'm thinking pacifism for now)
- Tech-wise, I think we should start filling in the needed things for a path to Edu->Liberalism (more for Universities @ Edu, the free tech on liberalism's just a bonus if we can get it)
- Berlin is still configured for max hammers, but we now have +3 happy available and no real need for the extra production. Let's switch the tiles around and assign some more specialists. I'm thinking like this:
Spoiler :
- By doing that, Berlin will beat Hamburg to the next GP no matter what, so I'd advocate whipping out the NE for max overflow when we can .. put it into a Harbor to increase the healthy cap, and it will regrow quick enough that our specialists there will be up and running again in no time.
- Essen needs a Harbor and/or Aqueduct after the courthouse. (and a library after that
)- Dortmund is ridiculously low production, it could possibly steal the plains hill that is in its BFC for more hammers, or we can just whip stuff. Otherwise it looks to be on the right track. (library->courthouse) and (chop jungles and plant cottages)
- Academy for sure in Dortmund with our GS, I think.
- Cottage spam and gem mines in Stuttgart! (already looks like we're doing that)
- We're still in Paganism!!!!
Let's get into OR or Pacifism asap (I'm thinking pacifism for now)- Tech-wise, I think we should start filling in the needed things for a path to Edu->Liberalism (more for Universities @ Edu, the free tech on liberalism's just a bonus if we can get it)
S.ilver
Emperor
I am back, so I'll follow up on Tryn's comments 
.
-The first big thing I noticed is that we've turned our happiness cap into a healthiness cap. E.g. Munich still has 4 happy on it but is at the health cap and has no harbor and no aqueduct. We are expansive so there is no reason why we should have a lower health cap than happy cap, and certainly no reason at all why we should not build our cheap harbors.
-More use of the whip. Stuttgart; whip the granary, Dortmund; 3 pop the library (we have food here and almost no production), Essen; whip the courts (especially as we are about to break the health cap), Munich can 3 pop whip the NE, and I would do it as we want to push out a GP in Berlin first anyways. We have mass food here and are not even working the clams to stop growth.
-RE: Religious civic switch. Optics is in 3 turns and we want those caravels out pounding the oceans ASAP. I'd go for Free Religion right now, as we need to fill in tech holes and NOT make everyone hate us. We're also not spiritual, so we can't flip flop without consequences until landing Cristo.
-Looking at the Top 5 cities screen, it looks like we're going to have to prepare for a religious showdown with another Industrious civ (note the top city full of wonders, a religious wonder, and the AP, ugh). When we find this civ, make sure all our cities have religion, and we don't open borders with them, because I really don't want to lose through some cheesy AP loss...
-RE: Tech path, get Currency and Engineering after Optics, and then go for the Lib rush. We want Engineering for Notre Dame, which is our only critical Medieval Wonder, not castles (have to build walls first, and since we are always needing to build something, they are useless).
-We also need to start filling out the southern half of our continent at a measured pace, as we're close to meeting other civs, and once there, not far from getting ocean faring boats. Anyone want to throw up a dotmap? I'll do one, but obviously it is not a strength of mine.
.-The first big thing I noticed is that we've turned our happiness cap into a healthiness cap. E.g. Munich still has 4 happy on it but is at the health cap and has no harbor and no aqueduct. We are expansive so there is no reason why we should have a lower health cap than happy cap, and certainly no reason at all why we should not build our cheap harbors.
-More use of the whip. Stuttgart; whip the granary, Dortmund; 3 pop the library (we have food here and almost no production), Essen; whip the courts (especially as we are about to break the health cap), Munich can 3 pop whip the NE, and I would do it as we want to push out a GP in Berlin first anyways. We have mass food here and are not even working the clams to stop growth.
-RE: Religious civic switch. Optics is in 3 turns and we want those caravels out pounding the oceans ASAP. I'd go for Free Religion right now, as we need to fill in tech holes and NOT make everyone hate us. We're also not spiritual, so we can't flip flop without consequences until landing Cristo.
-Looking at the Top 5 cities screen, it looks like we're going to have to prepare for a religious showdown with another Industrious civ (note the top city full of wonders, a religious wonder, and the AP, ugh). When we find this civ, make sure all our cities have religion, and we don't open borders with them, because I really don't want to lose through some cheesy AP loss...
-RE: Tech path, get Currency and Engineering after Optics, and then go for the Lib rush. We want Engineering for Notre Dame, which is our only critical Medieval Wonder, not castles (have to build walls first, and since we are always needing to build something, they are useless).
-We also need to start filling out the southern half of our continent at a measured pace, as we're close to meeting other civs, and once there, not far from getting ocean faring boats. Anyone want to throw up a dotmap? I'll do one, but obviously it is not a strength of mine.
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Short plan
Build orders
Berlin: finish monastery, whip harbor, aqueduct, missionaries
Dortmund: whip library, courthouse (cottage jungles)
Stuggart: whip granary, courthouse (cottage/mine jungles)
Munich: whip NE, harbor, aqueduct, caravel
Cologne: whip harbor, aqueduct, caravel
Frankfurt:<needs religion> 2pop courthouse, barracks, units
Essen: whip courthouse, harbor, aquaduct, caravel
Hamburg: 3pop MoM, units/settlers
Inland cities are ok on health, can always throw the aqueduct in when needed.
Civics switch to FR to help with the science and religion diplo reasons
The GS? Bulb/Academy/settle
Tech Optics>currency>construction>engineering
Build orders
Berlin: finish monastery, whip harbor, aqueduct, missionaries
Dortmund: whip library, courthouse (cottage jungles)
Stuggart: whip granary, courthouse (cottage/mine jungles)
Munich: whip NE, harbor, aqueduct, caravel
Cologne: whip harbor, aqueduct, caravel
Frankfurt:<needs religion> 2pop courthouse, barracks, units
Essen: whip courthouse, harbor, aquaduct, caravel
Hamburg: 3pop MoM, units/settlers
Inland cities are ok on health, can always throw the aqueduct in when needed.
Civics switch to FR to help with the science and religion diplo reasons
The GS? Bulb/Academy/settle
Tech Optics>currency>construction>engineering
cripp,
Plans sound reasonable.
The GS should definitely go to an academy in Dortmund, imo. That city is going to be a serious cash/science cow and the academy will seriously boost our tech rate for the rest of the game. The short term boost will be smaller compared to bulbing but the +50% only gets bigger and bigger as time goes on. Eventually it gets massive.
Plans sound reasonable.
The GS should definitely go to an academy in Dortmund, imo. That city is going to be a serious cash/science cow and the academy will seriously boost our tech rate for the rest of the game. The short term boost will be smaller compared to bulbing but the +50% only gets bigger and bigger as time goes on. Eventually it gets massive.
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Yeah I'm fine, wasn't around the pc for awhile.
Wow, met a few civs around pretty close to us. I stuck to the plan and cracked the whip pretty hard on those health building. I noticed we need more workers, so I did get 2 more out. once currency came in, I bumped the slider up tp 50% with +0gpt. Loaded 3 caravels with missionaries. Finished the tech path and started CS. A GE was popped so I put him to sleep. Revolted to FR.
I queued up markets in commerce cities. we still need more units and to start settling the south before Charlie hits our land. No illegal aliens on our land!
Wow, met a few civs around pretty close to us. I stuck to the plan and cracked the whip pretty hard on those health building. I noticed we need more workers, so I did get 2 more out. once currency came in, I bumped the slider up tp 50% with +0gpt. Loaded 3 caravels with missionaries. Finished the tech path and started CS. A GE was popped so I put him to sleep. Revolted to FR.
Spoiler For Civs :
Spoiler for Techs :
I queued up markets in commerce cities. we still need more units and to start settling the south before Charlie hits our land. No illegal aliens on our land!
Spoiler log :
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Slipped my mind..my bad. I don't think it hurt us at all.
Still a few civs out there yet to meet, we should hold off on any trades until we meet everyone.
So far, I'm inclined to pick Pericles as the AI to make our permanent alliance with. We've got a large tech lead (lots of room to gift for +1 or even +2 happy), he's got a worst enemy he's at war with, which we can join in to make more happy...downside is he's not as easily swayed by a shared religion, although it doesn't hurt.
So far, I'm inclined to pick Pericles as the AI to make our permanent alliance with. We've got a large tech lead (lots of room to gift for +1 or even +2 happy), he's got a worst enemy he's at war with, which we can join in to make more happy...downside is he's not as easily swayed by a shared religion, although it doesn't hurt.
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