Try-04: Lonely Civs and Bismarck the Builder

Cool. I got it. Any specific plans we need to keep to in terms of tech path? I'm assuming we are rushing for Lib (what do we want to take?). In the mean time, I'll keep us on a steady course to meet the rest of the civs and fill the rest of our continent.

We should ship mass missionaries to Khan/Pericles as they have no religion whatsoever.

EDIT: BTW, how the heck is lighting striking 3 times??? 3 GEs this game, all gotten as minority chances.

EDIT2: I suggest we bank the GE and slow build Notre Dame, as these clowns are nowhere close to Engineering (they want Metal Casting from us!). I also suggest we decide what we are doing with the GE.
 
Lemme take a look at the save after I finish my report for another game, then I'll let ya know ;)

3 GE's so far indeed...I hate to save one for so long, but perhaps we want to consider Mining Inc? :lol:
 
I think down the liberalism path is fine, but let's direct all our EP towards the one or two AI who are even somewhat close to it, and as long as we pay attention to what they can research, we should easily beat any of them to it (assuming we haven't met some runaway civ yet). In other words, let's get something cool for it :)

I marked up the save (attached) with some suggestions for filling in the open land areas. Feel free to use, change, or disregard ;)

For the GE, I'm actually inclined to say that saving him for something not in our immediate future is probably best. We can just build the wonders we need, and as we're not very likely going to get a FOURTH GE this game, if we want corporations, Mining Inc would be nice.
 
I think down the liberalism path is fine,, we should easily beat any of them to it. In other words, let's get something cool for it :)

Biology slinghsot is definitely achievable at this level although we could probably go higher if we really tried.... :cool:

So sweepstake for a virtual "beer" is offered for whoever can predict the most expensive tech we can get from Liberlaism...

Ralph
 
Skip around liberalism until you get all the pre-reqs for whichever tech you want further down the chain, then quick-tech liberalism and cash in :)
 
And just make sure the AI's research is behind or close to it

Right, basically you delay liberalism until the AI gets close to it, then take the best tech you can get.
 
Some good points made about Liberalism. We'll need a bit of EP spending to be able to see AI tech choices though. In the meantime, I'll build up. I also wanted to run a revised dotmap by you guys.

dotmap2-1.jpg


Blue dot is the already marked production city with 3 food sources.

Pink dot is an east coast city. I debated putting it where Tryn put it, but getting the whales is just too costly in terms of losing lots of land tiles for very marginal ocean tiles. Whales obsolete anyways, so they're not that great.

Orange and Teal dots are both landlocked cities with access to sufficient food and fairly good terrain. Specializations are not evident to me, but I feel that this is the best use of the land, as these cities will grow up fairly fast as we are past the financial hardship stages (and leading comfortably in tech).

Green and Brown dots are sacrificial, in order to block off access to the south end of our continent (which is ice and lousy, but the AI will STILL settle it if we leave it). At least they have some resource access and can decently live off the water.

Black dot is the ultimate sacrifice. We build it and build a fort on the X in order to run a canal in the south end of our empire for better access. It's awful and has nothing going for it. However, keep in mind that these junk tundra cities can easily be transformed by corporations.
 
1260AD (186):

Preflight check. A few things scream out to me.

1. We need more cities! It's definitely been a longtime sentiment of mine, and now it's fairly confirmed. We are miles ahead of the AI in tech, despite the fact that we are not financial. However, someone is beating us in total land area (probably Egypt, as they are second place so far). So, we need to fill up our continent at a measured pace.

2. We need more workers! A lot of our empire is still wilderness, and we need to fix that for maximum effectiveness.


Anyways... quite a lot to do on the home front, and we need to start grooming our potential PA partner. After checking it out, I agree 100% with Greece. Their favourite civic is Rep, which we don't want to drop, and they have a natural enemy in Khan which we can bash. Therefore, I sign open borders with Pericles and drop off the Tao missionary.

Checking around for tech trades, it seems that both Charlie and Ramesses wants Alpha and Calendar for Monarchy and Mono. That's 600 beakers to us for 929 beakers to them. Nah. However, Ramesses will take MC and 55 gold for that. A net loss of around 100 gold, but I don't want to go back to research those two, and we are sufficiently ahead in tech anyways (Charlie already has MC btw).


Time to check the cities...

Berlin is building a Caravel, but we have 3 already in the water. Berlin is high potential, so we should do something else. I dial us a settler in 7 turns.

Hamburg starts Notre Dame, as we don't really need more military at this time. I take over the shared mine from Berlin, and work forests, and we have it in 23 turns, with growth in 5 to work one of the 3 hammer tiles. Good to go.

Munich is building a market in 12 turns, and doesn't really have much else to do. However, we have none of the happiness resources that are boosted by the market, and the +25% gold doesn't do much for us at the moment due to the pitiful 5.5 gold this city makes at 50% gold. Since we have massive excess food, and we need workers, I dial one. We will finish the market eventually, but we lack the caps to run merchant specs. Speaking of which, I fire the engineer and run a spy for more EPs (keep the priest for a lucky prophet).

Cologne has 4 hills and is working none of them while trying to build a market. We are also, for some reason running scientists here instead of working tiles, despite the fact that this is a clear cottage city. I put the scientists back to work, but in the mines, taking the build time from 125 turns to 19 turns. Better. Growth in 4 as well. On second thought, I dial a temple first, because we have lower happiness here.

Frankfurt is building a crossbowman in 2 turns, and I'll leave it since it is almost done. We are missing buildings here however, and with Civil coming in 5, we will have irrigated corn, but we need to build 2 farms to do it! Growth in 1, so will have to deal with max health next turn.

Essen just started a caravel, so I cancel it and dial a temple.

Dortmund is at max happiness and set to grow in 2 turns. We're doing the 1 hammer per turn market here, which doesn't work... We are Industrious, so I dial a forge with the intent to whip it next turn.

Stuttgart is building a harbor. This is good, but I also note that the workers building cottages have wasted precious worker turns, because we want to build farms there to get water to the corn.

set3farms.jpg


I cancel their jobs. We need better road networks, among other things. They will get on the farms in 5 turns when Civil comes in.

Note also that this cottage by Berlin on the plains was a waste, because we again want a farm there to bring water to Cologne's corn. I recall there already being a farm on that tile before, so some :smoke: there.

set3farms2.jpg


I dial science down to 40% and add 10% to EPs, so we can get a sizable lead. Civil not affected. For some reason I cannot reassign the EP weights on the espionage screen. Will try again later.

1270AD (187):

A GS is BIAFL.

I whip Dortmund's forge for 2 pop.

2 pop whip Essen's temple.

And 2 pop whip Cologne's temple as well.

I finally manage to remove the EP weight from Genghis and Greece. I leave some on them, but shift weight to Ramesses and Charlie, since they will be our competition later.

I activate our chariots and send them off to probable sites we will settle. I'll settle the production site and the filler first, in case there is any dispute over others.

1280AD (188):

Forge done in Dortmund, it wants to go back to a market, but I switch to a Taoist Temple instead.

Same deal in Cologne with the temple finishing, but I'll let the market build.

Frankfurt finish the crossbow and is at the health cap, so dial a settler in 6 turns.

Essen finished... uh... something. I think a temple. I dial up a market.

I spot an orange border west of Egypt.

Hello, it's Hannibal!

set3hannibal.jpg


He is Bud and has lots of techs. Not as many as us, but enough to show that he's clearly financial.

1290AD (189):

Hannibal adopts Caste and Vassalage. For what? Shadowboxing?

1300AD (190):

A great Merchant is born far away.

The worker is done in Munich, and it went to a market, which I 4 pop whip.

I spot a situation at Argos.

set3argos1.jpg


And I find another barb city we need to deal with.

set3barbcity.jpg


Cologne can afford to shed some pop, so I 4 pop whip the market there too.

1310AD (191):

The market is done in Munich. I dial a colosseum so it can grow back a bit.

Cologne also done its market, and do the same with a colosseum.

Stuttgart is done its harbor, and we have a wealth of possibilities, so dial a forge first.

1320AD (192):

set3civil-1.jpg


Yay! Flexible Farming!

Angkor Wat was BIAFL. Top cities screen says that Ramesses piled it into Thebes.

Genghis got a GG, and the missionary can see this happening...

set3argos2.jpg


About to get ugly, if it isn't already.

Great...

set3shaka.jpg


Shaka is Jewish. Any other civs left to discover?

With Civil done, I dial up paper immediately. Map trading will cut down on our caravel travel time...

1330AD (193):

Shaka wants open borders. No.

Argos got toasted by Genghis this turn. I would check to see if they kept it, but I'd rather spread Tao in Athens.

Berlin finished the settler and defaulted to a Caravel. Switch to a courthouse as we are about to expand.

1340AD (194):

Hannibal wants OB now too. No.

Greece converts to Taoism as expected and makes peace with Genghis. Expect a conversion request soon, which we want to take.

Frankfurt finished a settler this turn, and we're at the health cap, so dial a duct.

1350AD (195):

Bleh. We get the minority odds and pop a great spy in Berlin (thanks a lot Great Wall!)

We also see that Ramesses is teching Paper in 6 (gogo EPs!). Luckily we have paper next turn.

I give Pericles Med for 40 gold to curry some favour. Of course, it doesn't make him grateful, but now he has 2 points on Khan.


Notre Dame done in 8 turns. The chop from the spices conveniently went into it last turn (love it when a plan comes together). With Civil enabled, we can even feed more food into the city through the grasslands.

What to do with the Great Spy? I would settle him, as he's good for +12 EPs, and +9 beakers while we have Rep. I sent him to Munich, where we'll be piling our modifiers.

The two settlers are almost exactly where they need to go. IMO, settle those cities ASAP so we can finish getting the continent filled out. We need consensus on a plan in the south.

Allying with Pericles? I OBed him, but nothing significant has happened yet on the diplomatic front. Pericles lost Argos to Khan, but Khan is fairly weak and we could probably chase him out to help Pericles.

Pericles just did get hit HARD though in the power department.

set3power.jpg


Anyways, we will have bonus diplo from him for his favourite civic... when he gets it. The other choice would be Hannibal, since he favours Free Market...


Roster:

cripp7
S.ilver <-- Just Played --
Trynthlas >> Up Now <<
Ralph_Jackson <-- On Deck --
altonhare
 
Very detailed report, thank you Silver. I've got a couple questions on comments you made though:

- Why do we need to irrigate farms (and use up tiles with that irrigation route) for cities that have no need for the extra food to work all their tiles? Both the ones you commented on have no food issues and can easily grow to work everything, and if we turned those farm routes into cottages they'd be more commerce on top of that.

- On your dotmap, there's still a good bit of land open (the tundra, not the ice). Is that not a concern? I figured as long as we covered any land that could be remotely useful the AI is welcome to the pure-ice areas.


Of the AIs we've met, I'd say for sure Pericles is our best choice, and we can (when convenient) swap out of FR to gain the religion bonus with him.
 
Irrigated farms on food resources is worth extra food. It's almost always worth it to enhance those tiles if remotely possible. In this case, it is, because we're not giving up a whole lot of tiles. Food is power, and we can always leverage extra food, whether it is for growing the city to max pop faster, running specs, or powering the whip.

In the case of running cottages instead of specs, I looked at the Big Picture (TM) for that. We want a PA with Pericles, and he loves Rep, so it is highly unlikely that we will drop rep for any of the other civics. In that case, running specs in cities other than our GP farm don't represent any form of loss, and can in fact be leveraged for flexibility and independence from the slider.

Regarding my dot placement, I don't consider Tundra at all very useful. The tiles don't produce anything and can't even support the person that's working them, with the exception of riverside tundra. I also wanted to minimize overlap, because we're starting to enter the stage where we should be able to rapidly transform the terrain to make the city productive and able to work most/all of its tiles (we still need more workers though).

Keep in mind that we can still drop cities in the ice and unused Tundra for later, IF we plan on using corporations, because those things make marginal cities actually usable and fairly productive.

Regarding swapping religions back to Taoism, I'd advise that we wait until Pericles asks us to swap religions. Then we will not only get the religion sharing bonus, but an extra bonus for "You switched to our Religion". Unsure of whether the AI will ask us to switch religion while we are in Free Religion though. Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to chime in there.
 
Regarding swapping religions back to Taoism, I'd advise that we wait until Pericles asks us to swap religions. Then we will not only get the religion sharing bonus, but an extra bonus for "You switched to our Religion". Unsure of whether the AI will ask us to switch religion while we are in Free Religion though. Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to chime in there.

Unless he asks us to adopt OR or Theo, then a religion request. That's the only way I can see it happening.
 
Dont forget FR was at least partially not to upset anyone whilst we picked our PA partner. It wont hurt us, now we have decided on Pericles, to Run Toa + OR or Pacifism.

Ralph
 
I tried to start playing (a little while ago) and the game has been freezing on me. Did that about 4 times and then I went for a full uninstall -> install, redid all my patches, etc.

Got about 2 turns further and froze again.


Silver, can you load up the game, re-save and attach it here? Then as a test, also download that save and play a couple turns to see if you have issues? Also, can cripp or Ralph test the save attached to Silver's report and see if they have freeze-up trouble?

Thanks.
 
Reuploaded. Not sure what the problem is. I can play 10 turns and there's no freezing. Minor slowdowns when I do stuff like buy world maps, but no freezing.
 

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Well... what I can think of is that Civ 4 is still ruinously memory intensive, both for your processor, and the GPU. Ensure you don't have anything running in the background, and be sure to do virus scans et al. to make sure there's nothing running eating your system resources.
 
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