TSG51 After Action Report

[FeiLing]

My second spy did exactly that (for a while)
Does anyone know if you will find intrigue more often in larger cities or the capital? Does an enemy spy on defense have an influence on that?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Had not played Civ 5 since release, after a big disappointment at how easy it was to play the system / AI without even trying, and winning my first game on Deity mode. I was hoping it would be better and more difficult this time around.

This game delivered. Death by mongolian hordes by turn 150. Thanks Lief!

Now, on to play the emperor and immortal TSGs

 

[leif erikson]

Welcome back to GOTM.

Thanks and hope you enjoy the games. Best of luck.

 

[Arilian]

BTW This games is a fine example, why we should play with ruins off,
I have played a fist few turns again with reloads yesterday.
I got turn 9 writing, (turn 33 GL), 3x POP, 20 cult, pantheon without building a shrine, 3x scout->archer, started to eradicate the Mongols with CB's then got bored
for Bab a turn 9 writing is just too OP, not to mention scout bowmen.

I am afraid to mention (I REALLY do not want to generate any flame), that because of the keep rnd seed, even if you reload 1000 times, but you remember where you moved, you can reproduce it with a 'legit' game.

But even in two player’s legit game just scouting right or left could results 20 culture vs. getting a location of barbarian encampments resulting 10 turn difference at the end. There was a few GOTM that I did not submitted because i got so horrible ruins, that I did not feel I have any chance to compete.

 

[glory7]

Game:Civ5 GOTM 51
Date submitted:2013-01-06
Reference number:28064
Your name:glory7
Game status:Science Victory
Game date:1640AD
Turns played:238
Base score:1766
Final score:3757
Time played:16:58:00
Submitted save:glory7_gotm51_sci_0238 AD-1640.Civ5Save
Renamed file:glory7_C505101.Civ5Save

I forgot to write opening action report (thread?) before finishing the game. I got very lucky at the beginning so I thought I could manage easy sci victory, but things went bad during the mid game.

Settled at the initial place. I went for 2 scouts first as there were only 5 AIs and I really hoped for tech/culture ruins. If I get 2 or 3 tech ruins, I might try fast HG (beeline math after writing). I realized that nobody is close from me (as I met no one (maybe mongolia around t10) and all CS I met gave me 30 gold) I went for 3rd scout. Also, I got culture ruin and decided to skip monument so 3rd scout was a natural choice - if there are not that much area to explore, I can use it to def academy from barbs.

And I got writing ruin while I was researching it... saving like 5 turns for writing is a game changer for bab. I considered GL but cap did not have many hammer tiles.

Went for shrine/work boat/bowman and got gods of the sea. Planned to to 1 city NC and expand to tradition 4 cities, as expo places were not really fantastic and AIs were far from me. I think I bought 2 settlers and hard built one. 2nd city on the marble NE, 3rd city NW so that I can have 2 fish, 1 crab, 1 stone, 1 dear, 2 truffle (3rd ring though). Last city on SW river next to banana and spice.

Cap BO: 3 scouts - shrine/bowman - library - work boats - NC - bowman/settler
Expo BO: work boat - granary - etc

Took worker from monaco around t25 and took one worker from barb camp. Returned a worker and barb quest for vatican city (it basically gave me most of the faith I had during the whole game). I also planned to do the same for genoa, but it directed different barb camp! so I just took the camp and worker. Later, I did that quest too and allied it - until mongolia took that city. I did several CS quests and had like 3 allies (1 culture, 1 maritime, and 1 happy one) and 2-3 friends.

The problem was my cities did not have enough hammers so it took really long to build something. I didn't have enough money to buy universities. And AIs were expanding like crazy and mongolia took several CS already. I thought that the war is inevitable and planned for artillery rush. When mongolia took genoa and we have close borders, I thought I had no other choice. I paid AIs to fight against each other.

Used oracle to open rationalism when I entered renaissance with acoustics (as usual). After that, I went for printing press and worked on pisa. Instead of going for sci theory, I went for dynamite. Cap built barracks, armory, military academy, and rushed brandenburg gate with pisa engineer. Lastly added heroic epic.

I falied to balance tech and unit production... when I almost got dynamite around t135-t140, I had no cannons yet! I forgot to consider that I am teching really fast at the beginning with early academy. Instead of finishing dynamite, I changed to sci theory path. I really should have chosen sci theory path first. When I finised all xp buildings at cap and produced 4-5 cannons, I finished sci theory too...I bought pub schools at cap and upgraded cannons too. I made 2 cavarly at 2nd and 3rd city.

I think I started my rush around t160. It would be around t110 in quick pace, so I thought I was doing good and could aim for domination victory. Meanwhile, Persia and Spain were going crazy - they had like 500+ gpt. I paid AIs so that both mongolia and arabia were fighting spain and both sweden and mongolia were fighting Persia to slow them down. Mongolia actually took 1 city from Persia and I think it slowed Darius a lot. Instead, Spain took 2,3 cities from mongolia and had 600+ gpt.

I liberated genoa and went for karakorum. I took most of mongolia cities, but happiness problem hit. While I was building happy buildings and spending money on CS and lux, my tech speed became slow and Darius and Spain were flying. Darius had lots of wonders too. I DoFed with arabia and Spain, and went straight for Darius.

When I got there, he already had one bommer and 2 battleships... I used 2 citadels to move forward but still lost many elite artilleries. It was already around t205 and I knew that sci victory would be much faster than domination. Also, I had to do something with Spain... she had 8000+ gold and 600+ gpt, and took one city from arabia. As soon as I capture persia cap, I got gpt peace deal and sold one city to Sweden at good price. I marched east and attacked Spain after 2 RAs (spain, arabia) were done. It was about t215. I used one GS to get plastics faster as usual, and one to get rockectery faster. I borrowed money to upgrade my arts to rocket arts (cost 360 gold each...).

I took several cities and got peace deal as happiness problem hits again. I sold 2 cities to arabia at good price, and they were on the war continuously. I made sure that AIs were at the war whenever possible. It was like 'always war'.

Other steps were similar to usual sci victory path. I annexed 2 cities (persia cap and persia 2nd city) and bought sci buildings to boost spt. I annexed 2 more near the end so that I could save 2,3 turns. spt peaked 1600+. Mongolian cities had not many useful buildings and that kinda slowed down my tech around t170-210, as I could not find any city worth annexing (not even karakorum!).

With this war path, I could make sure that I would win but I think it was not the fastest way to win. I found that Arillian finished at t231 without conquering - really impressive.

Spent long time playing this game, as I had to reconsider my game plan throughout the whole game and war decisions took long time. Peaceful tradition 4 cities sci all-in is much easier and less time consuming, but I fear that with that strategy I might lose in this game.

 

[Half Nelson]

Well I survived without any wars, reached Globalization and even started building the UN (no GE unfortunately), but I was never really close to winning:- I didn’t have a single CS ally (nor much chance of getting one) although I may have received most of the AI votes. A major problem was lack of population:- my cities were far too small because I messed up early Policy choices by mixing Trad, Lib and Honor. I was also late to Education because I prioritized military techs at start. My city placings were OK, although probably didn’t maximise use of the available food tiles. Another big error was selling OB to Mongolia and Spain, allowing them to plant cities behind my defensive line. It was interesting to play through a Deity game to see the AI in full flow:- my spy in Persepolis gave a birds-eye view of a Megacity with ranks of specialists. I didn’t get the best out of Babylon UA because of late Education, but both UU and UB probably kept the wolves at bay in the early game. I bribed the AI into many wars (particularly the Mongols, bless them) and stole many technologies, but it was not enough. I was surprised how many times you can have spies caught and still remain friends with an AI.

 

[groorg1]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 51
Date submitted: 2013-01-14
Reference number: 28097
Your name: groorg1
Game status: Science Loss
Game date: 1750AD
Turns played: 261
Base score: 703
Final score: 703
Time played: 3:55:00

I've only won one game on Immortal, under fairly special circumstances, so I knew this was hopeless going in. My goal was to survive. I followed a similar strategy to several previous posters, Honor opener + three city Tradition opening. Battled barbs for some early culture, with a lucky early composite bowman and an upgraded spearman. Mongolia and Arabia got very grabby with the land to my south and east, but I was able to found two nice cities, one to the NE near the marble, and one to the NW on the north coast near all the fish.

I got the God of the Sea pantheon quite quickly, but never managed to found a religion, and was eventually converted to something by Spain. I realized around 1000 AD that I was falling massively far behind in tech and thought about founding more cities or trying a quick conquest, but never really had the production to do so. I was sidetracked by factories etc., perhaps not the best move in a deity game.

Around 1200 AD I realized that the Mongols were going down in flames, and I took advantage mercilessly, swiping Samarkand uncontested. Mongolia quickly sued for peace. I had friendly status with every civ virtually the whole game, and frequent research agreements seemed to keep me in the tech race for awhile. I knew that Isabella was getting literally 10x my cash inflow, and 8x my score, so I knew I was in trouble, but decided to stick it out.

Mongolia and later Sweden were bulldozed by someone (never even met the 6th Civ). Unfortunate that the northern sea was landlocked or at least my hapless caravel could have done more exploring...

The only question was whether Spain would run away with it, or Persia would contest the victory. In the end, Arabia (I think?) built the UN, and the first vote looked like it would go Spain's way. I quickly shifted my spies to city states friendly to Spain (prior to that I'd just been stealing like crazy from everyone), and managed to coup Bucharest in the nick of time, making Spain fail the UN vote by 1. Ha! I might have been able to stop the vote a second time, but 2 turns before it happened, Isabella launched the Spaceship, spoiling my fun.

But interestingly, I was completely intact, fairly nice quartet of cities, and was researching nuclear power, so I wasn't TOO out of it, I guess.

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

I got run over by Arabia and the Mongols, who almost simultaneously declared war on me. I had too few units close by to put up a good defence. Lesson learned: Keep lots of units in own territory. My expeditionary forces were not doing anyhting useful anyway.

 

[Arilian]

Just out of curiosity played another peaceful start, with reloads (turn 10 writing) and no GL.
Turn 78 Education, Turn 90 Renaissance with Oracle completed at the same turn, 5 city, 1 with Perta being built (slowly)
Sub 200 is possible with big luck and optimal play on this map.



Actually, this might be a valid tactic with Babs, not getting up the first few huts, just scouting and getting all huts with multiple scouts at turn 9-10 when pottery is completed.
I got writing 3 of 3 games (did not have to reload here at all), however this is probably due luck. Is it?

 

[BWS]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 51
Date submitted: 2013-01-17
Reference number: 28120
Your name: BWS
Game status: Diplomacy Loss
Game date: 1760AD
Turns played: 262
Base score: 593
Final score: 593
Time played: 6:06:00
Submitted save: Nebuchadnezzar II_0262 AD-1760.Civ5Save
Renamed file: BWS_C505101.Civ5Save

Spoiler :

Fun game! Made a couple of major mistakes, don't know whether they cost me the game, but I definitely could have done better. I still have not mastered the four-city Tradition opening. And I accidentally bee-lined for Satellites before researching Plastics, oops. I nearly made it to Rocketry before realizing my error.

Strangely, Harun parked the last spaceship component just outside my borders instead of sending it to his capital. He must not have wanted to win, because he surely had time to get it there. Or perhaps it wasn't safe to move during wartime? Silly Harun.

- What VC did you decide upon and when did you decide to go for it?
I played a scientific game from the beginning. Diplomacy might have been an option, and we had plenty of city states left in the end, but competition for alliances was way too high.

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?
Espionage got me several techs from the Mongols, who were safe to antagonize in my game. Religion was a mixed bag. I had a hard time choosing between God of the Sea and Stone Circles. I decided to invest in the Circles, which got me a religion quickly enough to pick up decent beliefs (Tithe, pagodas, production, pressure), but I never produced enough faith to take full advantage of it. I only had enough for one Cathedral, one Pagoda, and one extra Prophet, not enough to make a big difference.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
I declared friendship with Gustavus, Harun, and Isabella pretty early, and we had a few good rounds of research agreements. Unfortunately, Isabella and Harun were permanent enemies, and then she started coveting my land, so she denounced me in turn 150. She eventually got over it.

Harun and Isabella both cozied up to my borders, which caused some tension but provided a nice buffer from Temujin and Darius. And because Harun, Isabella, and Temujin all hated each other forever, it was easy to bribe them into perpetual war with each other. Darius jumped in on the fun occasionally, but he mostly seemed happy to beat up Gustavus, who eventually lost his capital but not his empire.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Many thanks to Sadato for his OCC Science guide, and to the Pilgrim for his Deity Challenge. The practice has helped a lot with managing the difficulty level, especially with learning defense and diplomacy. I still have a lot to learn (like how to do the Tradition quad better), but Deity no longer seems insurmountable. Anyway, I played this game following the same principles: focus, defend, hurry, pay attention.

 

[TyfoonTurk]

t250 - lost by dominatrix Khan

isabella and genghis were both dominating the map and it was only a matter of time until they reached me

tried science vic, but didnt even got close to apollo

 

[Browd]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 51
Date submitted: 2013-01-19
Reference number: 28133
Your name: Browd
Game status: Science Loss
Game date: 1655AD
Turns played: 241
Base score: 591
Final score: 591
Time played: 3:24:00

Looking through others' reports, I guess my game was about as frustrating as most. Darius was the runaway (although Isabella was consistently one step behind Darius), so I did the bribe-the-AI-to-DOW-Darius as much as I could, but Genghis refused to take him on and Gus wasn't strong enough (eventually Darius ate him). Isabella was more willing, but Genghis stayed just strong enough to serve as a buffer between her and Darius. As the screenshot shows, Darius had his way with world wonders (I had none, but wonder-fail gold did come in handy a few times--bought my first university and first research lab with fail gold)). I was still quite far away from a science victory (2 turns from finishing Rocketry--3 GSs stockpiled, with another coming from faith and two more within 20 turns--not enough (and not soon enough)).

Did 1 city through NC (about turn 68) and then founded 2 more cities (one NW on the coast and another NE on the marble), but was always hammer starved. As a result I neglected culture buildings -- entered Renaissance with plenty of time to take Rationalism after finishing Tradition, but that wasn't a good thing on this map. And religion was a joke. Pantheon was OK (chose God of the Sea over Stone Circles) as long as it lasted. Generated a GPr (turn 103) and founded Shinto with Ceremonial Burial and Religious Community, figuring the short-term happiness and hammers would be useful until I got overwhelmed by Isabella's religion. Since she converted my capital less than 20 turns later, I should have just settled the GPr and saved faith for late game. And her beliefs sucked -- Monasteries, shrine happiness and Goddess of Protection pantheon). Harun had better beliefs (shrine & temple food, mosques, and Messenger of the Gods), but I don't think he got beyond his holy city.

Kept DOFs and RAs with Isabella, Harun and Gus (until he died), while bribing them to DOW Genghis and Darius (worked (sort of) with Genghis and not at all with Darius). No DOWs; only unit built was a bowman, who popped an upgrade ruin and ended the game as a Gatling. Initial warrior also popped an upgrade and ended the game as a pike. Scout died to a barb x-bow (one shot) in the late game.

Not sure how to grapple with this map if I replay it. I'll have to study the other posts for inspiration!

 

[Arnold_T]

Kudos to those who managed to win this on first-try!

This post has some info in the first paragraph below about my first-try which ended early. The rest of the post relates to my second-attempt science win.

- What VC did you decide upon and when did you decide to go for it?

I hadn't really decided for sure, but figured a peaceful diplo or science game was the way to go. My first try got off to a good start with four quick cities set up. I stole a worker from a CS, but I think it was a mistake to steal a second worker from another CS. kinda made me the bad guy on the block I think. next thing I know both Gengis and Isabella DoW me, they both have armies each double the size of my army. Akkad goes down quickly, and Babylon wasn't going to be able to hold, so I just quit and started over.

Second-try was better, went for a OCC start this time, expanding to five cities after National College. stole only one worker from a CS, and then watched Isabella and Gengis very closely.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?

not so great the first-try
but second-try I saw that Isabella was Neutral and coveting my lands pretty much from the start, which I don't get since we are way far apart. how does that work?
Gengis who is closer was friendlier, but was lurking near my borders with catapults. So I bribed him to DoW Isabella. Worked beautifully, and so cheap! I only had to give him 200g and a couple of horses. From then on Gengis was the black sheep everyone loved to denounce and declare war on. I then just ignored military and stayed out of the conflicts and ended up being Friends with Arabia and Sweden, and had a few RAs with each of them.
Darius seemed to be leading the Science race so I got Sweden and Gengis to attack him to try to slow him down. Eventually though Gengis got eliminated by Spain and Isabella turned into a huge monster and started leading the tech race. Near the end when I had started building space parts she converted Monaco and declared on me and started marching on me with rocket artillery, tanks, etc. while I still had bowmen, swordsmen, and knights. I quickly tried to upgrade my army, but my southern city in the jungle fell pretty quickly, and she started marching on Babylon. Luckily the arabian border and the inland sea helped a lot, plus my installation of a citadel infront of Babylon. I had managed to get upgraded to tanks and mech-inf by the time she arrived in force. Meanhwile she was building space parts and had five pieces done before I finally finish my sixth part. I assembled the spaceship just as she started to bombard Babylon, on turn 250. I hadn't started assembling the ship until I knew bablyon would survive. anyone know what happens to you ship when your capital moves? do you lose the parts? also, can you move your own capital by building a palace like in Civ4?

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?

Religion worked pretty well the second game (since I learned from my first-try failure and prepared for the enemy GPs and Missionaries). I went for Hagia Sofia to make sure my religion got well developed and entrenched, and I built an Inqisitor for defence purposes that just hung around my capital all game.
Spying was surpringly successful second game (not sure why, first game I was getting spies killed, just luck I guess, or maybe who I targeted?). I stole three techs from Gengis, and two from Darius.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

I figured Diety war would be brutal, so avoid, and also figured Wonders would be hard to get so don't go after very many. First game I didn't even try for GL, but second game I got Writing from a ruin, so thought I could make a run for the GL. I was so close, lost it by just ONE TURN (to Sweden I think). thought about quitting, but playd on.
Next two wonder attempts were better. Managed to get Oracle, and also Hagia Sofia.
the next Wonder that I tried for was Pisa, but lost it by 4 turns.
then went for Porcelain Tower, and again lost it by ONE TURN! (to Darius). felt like quitting again, but soldiered on. at this point it was looking like Diplo Win wasn't going to work since Sweden and Isabella were buying up the CSs (and Isabella was stockpiling thousands in gold - she finished the game with 26,000g+!). So decided on Science.
I swore off of Wonders for a while, but near the end I went for Eiffel Tower (I started it a little late I'll admit) but AGAIN LOST BY ONE TURN!! wasn't a big deal at that point though, the failure gold was actually very usefull in helping to defend against Spain's attack.

Would be interested to hear any thoughts on game setup.

fun map, thanks Leif!
Diety is hard, but this map at least gives us a chance with:
- distance to the AIs
- buffering CSs
- limited access for the AIs into our backyard (by both sea and land)
- Babylonian UA helps a lot too

 

[Browd]

I hadn't started assembling the ship until I knew bablyon would survive. anyone know what happens to you ship when your capital moves? do you lose the parts? also, can you move your own capital by building a palace like in Civ4?

Haven't tested it as the human player (no fun to lose your capital), but when the AI's capital is taken, all parts that have been attached to the spaceship are teleported to the AI's replacement capital, where the remaining parts can be attached as they are built. If there are parts sitting on the map, not yet attached to the spaceship, they have to be transported to the new capital and remain vulnerable to destruction in the ordinary way.

 

[bc1]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 51
Date submitted: 2013-01-21
Reference number: 28153
Your name: bc1
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1565AD
Turns played: 223
Base score: 1177
Final score: 2675
Time played: 10:39:00
Submitted save: AutoSave_0223 AD-1565.Civ5Save
Renamed file: bc1_C505101.Civ5Save

This game could have been finished quite at least a half dozen turns earlier: my end game was sloppy I kinda forgot to bulb to start building Apollo in time (all cities were idling while that was under way )

More details later...

 

[Maxym]

I know how most of you feel, have been testing for this game for a week and got crushed so many times that I got numb to it.
I feel your pain.

Best wishes for a to all our GOTM'ers.

Next time please put one AI closer, or even two. You can get a great headstart that way. Which was my plan here after few test random maps. I had both good early military starts and a science victory on water map to see if I can keep up in tech.

But I sent scouts in wrong direction and neve found Harun until too late. I teched in peace and paid AI to war. Then Spanish force heading north, they were willing to take a large sum and Dow Harun, whose force was heading west, guess for whom. I got cheap and hoped they will fight it out. Instead I got a double Dow around 110 or so. Then I fought both of them off, eventually getting a peace from Spain, and kept fighting Arabs. Took one of their allies few times but never held it long. Then Genghis joined in and they both slowly pushed me back, eventually Arab artillery doing me in. And I retired before they took the cap. Darius was huge runaway, finishing Apollo in 1260AD.

Replayed and this time took Arabs down to one city, then Dowed Spain when I had XBs and saw their army heading home after beating up Genghis. I ripped them apart in jungles, and after containing them there, started rolling them back from the eastern end, making my way for her cap. Her only peace offers were for 1/4 of my cities so there was no pause until I beat her. I. Decided to go science, and lost to Darius on t265 even when I Dowed , him and took away every CS ally hoping to deny him aluminum. I messesd up Oxford and had to take a tech not on any spaceship part 9 turns lost. Didn't think it was big as I had tech parity. When I lost I was 4 turns away from finishing. So I would have just made it. Dumb mistake, but the constant war of attrition wore me down and I never went back and reloaded to find out.

I think if I prioritized domination I could have snuck in a win in time. My plan was to buy a small navy with 2 nukes, and take Darius' cap in one turn from sea, while taking Genghis out at same time. Both very doable as I got lots of gold from Spain in peace deal.

 

[Maxym]

For fun, I reloaded an earlier save (of my Diplomacy Victory) to see

For some reason he completely bypassed two of my weaker cities (with strengths in the 40's and 50's). I was taking pot shots with my city defenses (taking out Keshiks in one shot or Cannons in two). He massed around my capital (strength 60) but didn't actually attack.

All his units ran around doing nothing. I think they might have been confused by the Great Wall movement penalty. However, I recall a similar situation in the Into the Renaissance scenario where I was playing Russia and had to deal with a massive Mongolian army. Even though they could have put on a serious offensive, they got confused by a Citadel and got themselves killed without really attacking

But it does seem like it is possible to hold off the Mongolian hordes.

I have seen the same thing in ItR I think three times with him now. First as Russia Emp then Turks deity and finally Autria Deity. In that last one his repeated incompetence in using one of the best UUs in the game helped me get a Domination win (we fought three times, one a very sweet backstab by him on two fronts) He seems to pick a target and rarely deviates, then goes for full or nearly full city encirclement, rarely shooting with keshiks as he maneuvers, at least that has been my experience. In this game he used them fairly well againt me though

 

[Maxym]

LOL - AI cheating again... The settler was on the pillaged Stones last turn, that means he moved through my city tile which is something a player controlled civilian can not do (not even when borders are opened or one is allied): it)

you can do it too, it was not cheating, in this small instance. If the city has no units in it and you have OB you can walk through it as a regular road tile.