TSG71 After Actions

dthompson32 · Oct 27, 2013

Well just finished a turn 245 DV. I was 3 techs short when the vote came at turn 211, even then it took some work to finish Penicillin by the 231 vote. I'll post details when I have a chance to edit down from the verbose turn by turn notes I kept.

I'd love to see your video, Tommy. I suspect that tribute from CSes is the biggest issue I have, I'm leaving a lot of cash on the table and building things that I could be buying. I'm going to try that trireme idea on another play through.

Edit: Trying to use Tommy's strategy, but something isn't right. 2 Triremes can't get tribute from most of the CSes, hostile and protected ones have too much resistance.

Monthar · Oct 27, 2013

I suspect Tommy did the demand tribute in an unpatched version, where your global military strength plays a large factor into the ability to demand.

tommynt · Oct 28, 2013

Montar is right and wrong.

In last patch version demanding was lot easier. but I played with latest patch (at least i think so) and 2 trimeres were enough for most CS - not the protected ones thou - guess its a timing thing to get to them before other civs do ,,,

Espacially the lighthouse I could buy pretty much right after optics hit did speed things kinda ..

The 2nd wave were not be able to demande from all but i then united in middle of map and 4 could then demand from few more - and then frigates could obviously.
Was also needed to judge good if demand later in game or rather leaeve the quests allive.

Also allways remember the 8 tiles distance which is enough. I could f.e demand from zurich from passage north of the triple mercantile pack saving lot turn not going right next to it.

dthompson32 · Oct 28, 2013

Ok, thanks Tommy. I played with this a little more, and my experience seems to match what you are saying. You can get some, but not others. I think my problem is I don't have a large enough military overall.

I'm going to try letting Zulu live for awhile (which also lets them get a Granary up, and develop some luxuries), and get a slightly larger army first.

If you get a chance to upload your video of this, I'd love to see it. I want to see what your research order was.

Acken · Oct 29, 2013

Watched a little bit of your video tommynt and since you said you play with latest patch, you should know that now the ai can take 7gpt for a luxury instead of 6 (since I've seen you only asking for 6 at times).
Since the gpt to lumpsum ratio has changed with the patch, you can generally get more gold when selling stuff now.

Edit: as for me in TSG71, currently lurking. Will start on the next one. Can't really participate in this one since while I was just discovering this section I more or less watched some of the spoiler thread before playing just to know how all of it works... so wouldn't be fair game to send something after that (and TSG70 end is too close).

VengerBR · Oct 31, 2013

TSG71 was a brilliant game and I had a blast :goodjob:

Eagerly waiting TSG72!!!!

Suggestion: Possibly been done before, but since 71 was a very peaceful game overall, how about a Raging Barbarians game as Montezuma (or Bismarck), who can really capitalize on killing barbs?

Moderator Action: Thanks for the compliment, I'm sure HR enjoys that his hard work has been appreciated.

In future, please do not post in the announcement thread once you have opened the save for a game. Revealing spoilers by accident has been know to happen and thus it is better to use the After Action thread to relate things to us concerning the game. As you talked about the peaceful nature of the game, that can influence others in how they play their game. So I have moved this post to the After Action thread.

Hammer Rabbi · Oct 31, 2013

Thanks, VengerBR! I'm glad you enjoyed this one. For the next few months' schedule we will be finishing up playing as the new BNW civs and then playing as the ones who had some noticeable changes with BNW (Japan, Germany, Arabia, France and maybe a few others -- I dont remember all of the ones with changes). After that we haven't decided yet. We don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, haha. But player input will certainly factor into it once we're done with these new Civs. And thanks for the suggestions.

HR

dthompson32 · Nov 1, 2013

I have to agree, this map is really keeping my attention, as do almost all of the GOTM maps. I've played this GOTM at least 8 times now, and I have become very impressed with Venice on a water map. I generally dislike water maps, but I've really enjoyed this one.

Just completed a turn 233 DV. I've been using Tommy's aggressive strategy, and it is very effective (of course). I skipped taking PP on turn 147. Skipped it two more times, and took it on 159. I was not able to tech enough to get trigger the DV vote before the first WC vote, but I had insane levels of tech by the second vote. I hit Penicillin 6 turns before the 2nd vote, had 6000 faith, plus LTOP and PT 1 turn from completion.

So I either need to take PP on first opportunity and shoot for 2 votes, or delay the PP even further to build more resources and get to Penicillin before the 1st vote. I had world religion and ideology, and only needed one of them, since I had 40 votes.

Edit: I went back to a save before starting to research PP, and instead researched everything possible that I needed, without taking PP. Ended up with a turn 224 DV by getting to Penicillin 1 turn before the first vote. I used Oxford, rat finisher, GSes from PT and LTOP, and every GS I could buy with faith. I even bought a GE with faith to rush the LOTP and get the last GS I needed. I had everyone removed from the game, other than China 15 turns before getting PP, and was already in Industrial era.

This has been a really great GOTM, but I think I'm ready to move on to GOTM 72

krc · Nov 1, 2013

Diplomacy Victory, Turn 336 (1916 AD), Final score: 2289

- How many City States did you acquire with Venice's ability and did you take any cities through combat or peace deals?

Used MoV for three (Antwerp, turn 73; Zurich, turn 125; Brussels, Turn 188). Captured Ulundi from Shaka on turn 320 because I was bored....

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?

Pushed religion harder than usual. Started with build order of monument - shrine - granary since it looked like a small island and so there was no reason for a scout. Took God of the Sea Pantheon (turn 28) and founded Catholicism on turn 104 using a Great Prophet from Hagia Sophia. For the first time ever, I took Papal Primacy and Divine Inspiration. Faith-bought a bunch of missionaries to spread my religion to city-states. Enhanced on turn 131 with Asceticism and Messiah. This clearly led to a different game than I'm used to, since I got two Steam achievements (Holy Father and Soma Tablets for Everyone) during the game....

With spies, I promoted them in Venice on defense, and then moved them to CS. At a couple of points I used the promoted spies to coup CS back from AI civs trying to buy them away. Later I put spies as diplomats in five AI capitals to get extra delegates.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?

Fine. Portugal signed a DoF early, which eventually led to an allied block including Morocco, Byzantium, Indonesia, and Japan. I DoWed Shaka early (turn 31) and stole a worker and a settler. They still never got worse than guarded to me until I decide to take their capital almost 300 turns later.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

Wonder-whored madly. Great Lighthouse, Great Library, (National College), Colossus, Oracle, Hagia Sophia, Borobudur, (Grand Temple), Notre Dame, (National Epic), LToP, Forbidden Palace, Taj Mahal, Porcelain Tower, Oxford U (for radio), Eiffel Tower, (NIA), Red Fort, Broadway, Big Ben, Statue of Liberty, (Hermitage), Christo Redentor, Brandenberg Gate, (Manhattan), Sydney Opera House, CN Tower

- Did the the patch change how you play a diplomacy game or change how you treated the AI?

Encouraged me to try papal primacy instead of just consulates and pledge to protect.

Win was slow because I failed to focus on research; haven't played for enough diplomatic victories to realize that you need to push through to the information era to get the vote, and I timed a couple of things badly.

Moved my warrior north, and decided to settle on the marble., which put 8 sea resources in range and also kept both the wheat in range. This may have been a poor decision, since it limits possible trade routes that have to go first east and around the north of the island compared to the "canal" sites that allow western trade routes. But, of course, I didn't know at the time that the "Marianas Trench" of impassable deep water ran all the way from the north to the south pole just east of the island where Venice starts....

Started full tradition, then pushed into commerce with Wagon Trains and Entrepreneurship on the theory that you double-down on gold -- and merchant -- generation to take full advantage of Venice. This may well be wrong. It took me a while to realize that I had to play the usual "fill rationalism ASAP" strategy to get a faster diplomacy victory.

Txurce · Nov 1, 2013

DV on t302.

Most noteworthy: I decided to not war at all, rather than go the elimination route (choice). Decided to steal a worker rather than build one (mistake), then changed my usual start and built a monument on Tradition, and forgot to build a shrine (big mistake).

Par for the course: Tradition, 2 in Patronage until I hit Rationalism - then eventually Freedom. I don't think the Order science boost means much. (neither does Freedom, at this level.)

Most interesting observation: you don't need to focus on gold - just have enough to rush buy all science buildings and the occasional miscellaneous structure. Because you are #1 in science on Prince, spies quickly get promoted and can coup their way to near-total CS control. (I had four Special Agents at the end.)

Most interesting thing I learned from others: Tommy's gunboat diplomacy.

Shaleghi · Nov 2, 2013

Game:
Civ5 GOTM 71
Date submitted:
2013-11-02 02:18:23
Reference number:
29987
Your name:
shaleghi
Game status:
Diplomacy Victory
Game date:
1946AD
Turns played:
367
Base score:
1564
Final score:
2142
Time played:
4:18:00
Submitted save:
Enrico Dandolo_0367 AD-1947.Civ5Save
Renamed file:
shaleghi_C507101.Civ5Save

flipsix3 · Nov 2, 2013

Game: Civ5 GOTM 71
Date submitted: 2013-11-02 09:52:15
Reference number: 29992
Your name: flipsix3
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1860AD
Turns played: 301
Base score: 1247
Final score: 2078
Time played: 3:29:00
Submitted save: TSG71_Finish.Civ5Save
Renamed file: flipsix3_C507101.Civ5Save

NB: Suffered a Blue Screen of Death the turn after popping Oxford, resulting in an autosave reload. My PC has some minor issues with the GFX card and throws me a crash every few days. :mad:

Following on from the Opening Actions as outlined in that thread...

T100: Popped religion (Cult of Maguire, i.e. "Show Me the Money").

Tithe
Swords into Plowshares

Opened 'Exploration' SP tree (as not played it before) and sent out Trireme to start finding City States.

T115: Hagia Sophia

Divine Inspiration (as expecting to wonder-whore the game)
Itinerant Preachers

Planted first GS at Venice

T129: Education

Teched Compass next, for Great Galleas (x2) to take out Shaka. Dropped Grand Temple (as I never have before).

Popped Oxford, as I was already teching Astro by then used freebie to nab Acoustics and hit next age. Sent my Spy to Kyoto, as Oda was nearest tech rival (though still behind in Literacy demographic)

T143: Puppet Ulundi, bye-bye Shaka - it's been fun. Not surprisingly taking a big diplo hit with all but my two closest allies. 8 :c5unhappy:

but Ulundi has 3 unique lux so divert workers. Ulundi has Granary in place.

T146: Hit Astro, auto-beeline set for Banking (Money, money, money)

Relocate Spy to Venice, as can't sting Oda for anything. He (my spy, that is) promptly goes on a rampage taking down several visiting spies over the following 10-15 turns.

T150: 63 GPT, 112 BPT

At this point I'm torn between letting other Cvs catch up in tech, or reducing their numbers to speed up the "at least 50% of Civs...." requirement for UN. Warmongering doesn't feel very diplo, and letting people catch me as kind of counter-intuitive to me. Instead I decided to plant my second GS as he pops, then horde the rest for a massive bulb-a-thon to get through Atomic.

Bulk-buying cargo ships, GPT is silly - feels like it's really just a tech race by now as there's no way I won't be able to buy up every CS (not started yet, see no need until they have any impact on World Council)

T175: China DoW Indonesia - first true war in the save.

Popping Great Writer(s) for culture speeds me through to 4 of the 5 Exploration points (extra gold from sea trade), really not bothered about filling out 5/5 for Admiral & bonus.

T195: Printing Press
132 GPT
189 BPT
Into Golden Age with Taj due to build in 4 turns

By now Venice is chaining Wonders and I'm all-out buying anything else I need. I know that the cost is greater that way, but frankly with the money I'm making it's not a factor.

Proposed World's Fair for the first sitting of the council.

Open Rationalism tree.

Pop Industrialisation, and grab a 7-coal spot to open up Factories for Ideology - buy all three, opening Order as I've not tried it before.

T224: Open 'Order'

GP +25%
-33% to buying buildings

Pump all Production into World's Fair, and start to pick up City States slowly. Wars are breaking out all over.

Take Radio into modern era, and increase rate of CS purchases. In addition my influence over many of them increases as I satisfy Luxury/Strategic Goods missions from those that I buy.

World's Fair completed, me 1st (2064 Hammers), Oda 2nd (352).

Question: Is there any way to monitor the progress on these projects? I can't see it, but clearly I could've won only putting in 5 or 6 turns (Venice at 85 hammers)

Culture boost and another GW sees me fly through Order:

+25% science from factories
Young Pioneers
Party Leadership
Iron Curtain

T260: Cult of Maguire voted in as world religion

Continue along top of tech tree.

T276-t278: Pop 5 or 6 Great Scientists, plus Faith Buy and pop another. In the space of two turns bulbing through; Penicillin, Flight, Electronics, Atomic Theory, Ecology and all but 2 turns of Telecommunications.

UN comes online circa T280.

Vote held on T300 which I cannot possibly lose, victory on T301 as I finish Internet.

At the end of play:

Venice: 34 Pop
Antwerp: 24 Pop
Ulundi: 19 Pop

14,207 Gold, growing at 615 GPT
810 BPT

Spoiler :

After the first MoV (Antwerp) any others that came along were used on straight trade missions, allowing me the gold to then flat-out buy more City States whilst my pot was refilling.

I feel like I could certainly have finished sooner, as I said in the Opening Actions I'm nowhere near to being an optimal player and therefore I really don't know all the nuts and bolts of the ideal timings for Diplo (or any victory to be honest). For the last 50-75 turns I was pretty much building/buying stuff at random. Had a bunch of Frigates, a couple of Ironclads, and a Nuclear Sub parked off my coast, and a few land units, but no-one ever came close to taking a run at me - I'm sure that time could've been better spent.

Still I felt pretty good about this one, and it sits fairly high on my personal Hall of Fame score.

Novalia · Nov 2, 2013

I have also played this game a number of times.. So many different ways to play it. There is an opening where you can get sailing tech AND a faith ruin within the first 25 turns.

Check out smote's vid for sailing (he does a couple of awkward moves) http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12847888&postcount=22 then continue on to the next ruin skipping the CS.

Fun map.

Ribannah · Nov 5, 2013

T220 Diplomatic Victory
Score = 3658 (HOF)
This is the turn after the final vote, which ended 36-28 (minimum 34 required).
Opening actions (T123 Astronomy)

Printing Press on turn 145 felt a bit early but we had science to spare in the end. Everything accelerates faster than ever, it seems. Lost two turns because the game insisted on having a pre-UN host vote first despite the fact that the UN was already founded. :confused:

We kept adding new puppets each time a Merchant of Venice came up and that nicely matched new happiness boosts. Our Golden Age lasted from turn 126 until the end.

Cities
1 Venice=46
54 Yerevan=20
96 Antwerp=19
133 Tyre=19
183 Jerusalem=19
214 Malacca=11

Religion
32 God of the Sea
94 Tithe, Swords into Plowshares
103 Religious Community, Religious Texts

World Congress
145 Host (Printing Press)
146 Proposal: Sciences Funding
171 Host (16 votes)
179 Sciences Funding: passed
179 Proposal: World Ideology (Order)
204 Host (19 votes)
206 Host (United Nations) (32 votes)
209 World Ideology (Order): passed
220 World Leader (36 votes, 34 required)

Policies

Spoiler :

Venice

Spoiler :

Technology

Spoiler :

Arilian · Nov 5, 2013

Game: Civ5 GOTM 71
Date submitted: 2013-11-05 07:41:45
Reference number: 30017
Your name: Arilian
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1640AD
Turns played: 239
Base score: 1993
Final score: 4240
Time played: 3:25:00
Submitted save: Enrico Dandolo_0239 AD-1645.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Arilian_C507101.Civ5Save

I settled on the Marble, as unlucky I did not scout north as most people and did not notice the 8 fish circle. I planned (have marble) and rush GL+NC, but noticed I still have around 6 fish to I went to Optics. I did not demand from CS-s, but attacked Shaka for 3 worker (2 from settler). Did not get culture from hut either, but that was expected

as I never seems to able to get one in a gotm (almost always have one in my own games)

Created religion with +15%gowth and +15%production. This was unwise, as I was war from t 120 to 210.
I killed everyone with frigates except Japan, but even though I had penicillin at t223(?), I had to wait until t238 for the win vote.
Collected 10k cash and some wonders as I was bored.

I barely won (or not sure). I had 38 vote, and needed 38. I was allied to everyone. Is that normal?

Venice: I like it as always . Puppeted Antwerp with GM, did not generated any other.

No barbs: Boring Imho

DV: I still do not like it

xiziz · Nov 5, 2013

Game: Civ5 GOTM 71
Date submitted: 2013-11-05 15:36:43
Your name: xiziz
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1929AD
Turns played: 350
Base score: 1759
Final score: 2549
Time played: 6:46:00
Renamed file: xiziz_C507101.Civ5Save

Ended the game with four cities, Venice(47), Sofia(Bought CS, 24), Jakarta(20) and Medan(20) captured from Indonesia mid game because I was afraid of not getting enough science for a decent finish. Got afraid of catching a CV instead of DV, but with 99.6% and 87.2% on the last two civs I managed to miss that.

Overall a good game for learning the new DV. A lot of clicking for trade routes and next turns waiting for votes though. Halfway through the game I saw the HORRENDOUS power of food cargo ships, geez! And with the happy on Prince, no stop growth!

Popped a whopping seven achievements this game!

Spoiler :

- How many City States did you acquire with Venice's ability and did you take any cities through combat or peace deals?
Took Sofia pretty soon after I found it, but then remembered that this was DV and that I probably would need votes to win. Trade missions for the rest of the GM's. Captured Jakarta with Frigates and a privateer, got Medan in a peace deal the same turn. Got 8 great arts/musics/writings things and 12 wonders.

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?
Spying for keeping a few key CS, was tech lead all along. Switched out all for diplomats near end. Never started my own religion, got Indonesia Hinduism up to me, with cathedrals and mosques with the handy trade routes. Then took Jakarta(Hinduism holy city) for the achievement and fun of it(and I needed more cities anyway)

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
Shaka dowed me around T120, pushed back, white peace. Morroco, Shaka, Theresa and China were buddies all along, Indonesia was until my frigate fleet turned up and sacked Jakarta, but rebounded and was friends again by endgame. Two wars, one defensive and one offensive.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Built a lot of wonders I'd never have chanced on otherwise, disregarded happy for the entire game and still ended at 100+

- Did the the patch change how you play a diplomacy game or change how you treated the AI?
First diplo game since vanilla for me I think, all was pretty new.

Blicero · Nov 6, 2013

Code:

Game:	Civ5 GOTM 71
Your name:	Blicero
Game status:	Diplomacy Victory
Game date:	1856AD
Turns played:	299
Base score:	2186
Final score:	3705
Time played:	5:25:00

I missed the info era by 3 turns prior to the next voting cycle, which meant I was clicking next turn for 27 more turns waiting for a leader vote.

My strategy was basically quick domination with 5 frigates and a caravel. I completely forgot to juice Constantinople (the last capital I took) which is probably what cost me those 25 turns. I was basically sitting on about 5k at around T250 with the super-purchasing discount in-place (skyscrapers, big ben, mercantilism) and Constantinople didn't even have a library. :crazy eye:

Oh well. Funny old VC this one.

Blicero · Nov 6, 2013

Smote said:
I eliminated everyone except China. This means I only had to hit the Atomic Era, instead of the Information Era to get this message: "The World has entered the Atomic Era, either because half of the Civilizations have reached it, or one Civilization has reached the era beyond it."

Ooh, that would have been a handy trick Nice one.

Ribannah · Nov 6, 2013

tommynt said:
Montar is right and wrong.

In last patch version demanding was lot easier. but I played with latest patch (at least i think so) and 2 trimeres were enough for most CS - not the protected ones thou - guess its a timing thing to get to them before other civs do ,,,

Espacially the lighthouse I could buy pretty much right after optics hit did speed things kinda ..

The 2nd wave were not be able to demande from all but i then united in middle of map and 4 could then demand from few more - and then frigates could obviously.
Was also needed to judge good if demand later in game or rather leaeve the quests allive.

Also allways remember the 8 tiles distance which is enough. I could f.e demand from zurich from passage north of the triple mercantile pack saving lot turn not going right next to it.

With the latest patch, a second Trireme hardly makes a difference. Trireme + Spearman scores more points but is still not enough when the CS is protected, which Zurich tends to be. Adding more Triremes seems not to give any extra influence.

Ribannah · Nov 6, 2013

Blicero said:
Ooh, that would have been a handy trick… Nice one.

But a trick nonetheless. I don't like it when to go after one victory type, you are almost forced to play the game as though you are after another to be competitive.

Happy with the map though, it was really good.

TSG71 After Actions

Warlord

Deity

Emperor

Warlord

Deity

Chieftain

Deity

Warlord

King

Deity

Chieftain

Warlord

Prince

Fighter Druid

King

Chieftain

Warlord

Warlord

Fighter Druid

Fighter Druid

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