TSK 01 - Eastern Uproar

[betazed]

Originally posted by Tsukemono5
Nick, at the moment, no one has Lit . So I would recommend the 1 scientist gambit so we definitely get within 40 turns. Once our MA with Korea runs out, pump research. We need lit ASAP to rush GL. The alternative is to make an army so we can build Heroic Epic...

We do not need that 1 scientist. Trust me Lit will be there within the next 8-10 turns. Korea and China is researching like crazy.

I never had the courage, to build an army with my first leader, primarily because GL is so attactive. Also the best army we can make is a sword army and that is pretty much useless later on. I would suggest creating an army with the next leader.

OTOH, if you want to go for it, go for it. It will be nice for a change.

 

[Tsukemono5]

OK, I bow to your logic :worshp:. But next leader should make a samurai army, if we get one by then. Also, we should buy Monarchy ASAP and switch before Chivalry. I bet we're gonna be doing lots of warmongering this game, so let's try to make our GA count. Before the middle ages, start building up chariots and gold supplies. At chivalry, we can upgrade them all into Samurai and deliver an @$$ wupping to Mao. Unless someone else declares war first, the Ottomans are our next target, because they and the Chinese are the only other Militaristic Civs. We want to take them out quickly because Sipahi will come in and 0wnzor our Samurai and Cavs, and that is bad. So slow down the tech pace after Chivalry by NOT buying tech. Once the Ottomans are gone, turn on research and rush to Mil Trad, then steamroll Mao. After that, it depends on who is the greatest threat.

 

[betazed]

Originally posted by Tsukemono5
OK, I bow to your logic :worshp:. But next leader should make a samurai army, if we get one by then. Also, we should buy Monarchy ASAP and switch before Chivalry. I bet we're gonna be doing lots of warmongering this game, so let's try to make our GA count. Before the middle ages, start building up chariots and gold supplies. At chivalry, we can upgrade them all into Samurai and deliver an @$$ wupping to Mao. Unless someone else declares war first, the Ottomans are our next target, because they and the Chinese are the only other Militaristic Civs. We want to take them out quickly because Sipahi will come in and 0wnzor our Samurai and Cavs, and that is bad. So slow down the tech pace after Chivalry by NOT buying tech. Once the Ottomans are gone, turn on research and rush to Mil Trad, then steamroll Mao. After that, it depends on who is the greatest threat.

I think we have a bit of confusion here.

If we are making the GL why do we need to buy monarchy? We will get it automatically. When we do get monarchy, yes we must switch immediately.

Also, we will not get a Golden age soon. We are Japanese remember. Our UU is the Samurai. So we will get our golden age when we defeat someone with a samurai. That will not happen before Chivalry. So no need to worry.

Chariots??? I think you mean horsemen. Right?

Also, you will slow down the tech pace by not buying tech? I don't think that will work. The only way to slow down the tech race is by dragging everybody to war, especially the bigger civs which will be in Republic.

IMHO, much before Ottos, who in any case may not have either horses or saltpeter (and MT is still far away) the Chinese will be the threat. Their riders have 3 movement and are sure to attack the moment chivalry comes in.

Just wanted to make things clear.

 

[Nick014]

Inherited turn: Switched Osaka to A Settler, Micromanaged Kyoto so the Sword would be done in 4 rather than 5. Just looking around I can see that we are very low on workers! All this good land means nothing if it isn't well developed! Everything else looks good.

IT: Archer near Osaka breaks off in attempt to intercept Tojo, the Warrior foolishly approaches the city

1: Sword slaughters warrior near Osaka without loss of HP, gets promoted to elite

Sword at Damascus attacks spear, wins losing 1hp

IT: Edo culture expands, Archer breaks off again for the wounded sword by Damascus

2: Elite sword kills a warrior near Osaka losing 2HP, wounded sword near Damascus wins against the archer losing 1HP

Vet warrior in kyoto upgraded for 40g

3: Kyoto: Sword - Sword

A 2-Sword Stack moves out from Kyoto, damaged swords fortify to heal

4: Osaka Settler - Worker
(movement)

5: Edo: Barracks - Warrior

6: Osaka: Worker - Worker
We see a Chinese setter pair approach or borders (!!!)

2-sword stack meets up with healed elite sword near Damascus and moves next to the city

IT: Chinese Setter Pair turns around and goes back???

7: Tokyo: Harbor - Swordsman
Satsuma: Temple - Worker

Nara founded near horses and silks - starts Warrior
Nagoya founded on Arab ruins, ivory is already hooked up - Set to spearman (can be vetoed by next player)

We cancel our alliance with Korea, so we can end the war whenever we want: They agree to keep ROP and are still gracious

Elite sword wins without damage at Damascus, it is autorazed for 2 gold

8: Kyoto: Sword - Sword
Edo: Warrior - Sword
Osaka: Worker - Settler

We can now build the Forbidden Palace

Stack of 4 Swords, 2 elite 2 vet start out towards Mecca

9: (movement)

IT: Chinese Galley approaches (missing settler pair?)

10: Satsuma: Worker - Galley

And the Save: TSK1-750BC.sav

 

[Nick014]

China, Korea, and Egypt have Philosophy and CoL. I figured that since we'll be getting the GL, it was pointless to get those techs now. Tojo is hanging Around in Kyoto should you think we could better use him in a different way. If we want to, we can get 35gold, CoL, and 2 Workers from the Arabs for peace. Personally, I'm in favor of wiping them out

Edit: Also, the Ottomans are not militaristic: they are scientific and industrious

 

[Rubberjello]

I sure would like to say "GOT IT" but that link to the save game is bad. Nick? Can you investigate it?

So...Kill off the Arabs? Is that the vote?


EDIT***** Update.... "GOT IT". The link was not found at first, but its fixed now. Thanks!

Hmmm....The day I feared has arrived. Two of my SGs gives me my turn at the exact same time. I'll have to muddle through somehow...

 

[Nick014]

Well, it works just fine for me. I tried re-uploading, give it another try

 

[Tsukemono5]

Chariots--->horsemen-->knights.
By not buying tech from the leaders, you reduce their gpt and gold stash. Because of that, they need to tone down research so they can afford stuff.
And yes, my bad, Ottomans are not militaristic . If we think we can take out China quickly, then yes, hit them first. But if you've ever gone up against Sipahi *shudder*. I did that in my Monarch AW game. I was SCARED!!!
And yes, wipe out the Arabs
And if anyone reading this thread is of Arab origin, I don't mean it personally. I have a great deal of respect for Arab culture. But your Civ3 equivalent has pissed us off .

 

[Rubberjello]

Preturn: Hmmm...interesting, circular world. Egypt has the most room to peacefully expand, mustn't let them be "peaceful" for too long! We are at 10.0.0 on the slider, with +14 Gold per turn. Literature hasn't popped yet. Well, I'm not interested in any other tech other than Literature, so that is all I'm going to save up for.

730 BC (1) Satsumi expands culture. Stack-of-Doom approaches Mecca (2 Vet Swords, 2 Elite Swords)

710 BC (2) Korea completes Oracle, Tokyo completes Swordsman. Another started. Two 5/5 Sword attacks two 3/3 Spears in Mecca -> wins both with no losses. 2 Workers captured who are sent North to connect roads. Warrior started (MP) 2 Vet Swordsmen head off towards Baghdad.

690 BC (3) Kagoshima Spearman -> Spearman. Kyoto Swordsman -> Swordsman. Positioning to attack Najran.

670 BC (4) Korea and Arabia sign peace treaty. Chinese Galleon approaching our last city spot with the silks. Grrr!!! Osaka Settler -> Settler Settler heading south to connect our expanding empire (Can't beat the Chinese ship anyway.)

650 BC (5) China tries to send a settler/spear pair over our land! I order them to leave, they ignore me this turn. (Literature still not available!) Edo Swordsman -> Spearman (Need some defence for new cities) Najran conquered with no losses, 1 worker gained.

630 BC (6) China tries ANOTHER settler/spear combo. Both are forced to leave (I'm tempted to gain 4 free workers by attacking them, but all Swords are heading South) Baghdad is autorazed after two 3/3 defeated with no losses and one promotion. 1 Worker gained

610 BC (7) Izumu settled next to Iron and Wheat China tries Settlers again. Chinese galley lands settler! Tokoyo Sword -> Worker

590 BC (8) Satsuma Galley ->Barracks Kyoto Sword -> Sword Approaching Medina with 3 Swords. Chinese city formed on our land.

570 BC (9) Arabs drop an archer off behind lines...right in front of an upcoming Swordie! India wants to send a spear/settler combo past our war zone. I tell them and China to go away (China listens this time) Egypt finally learns Literature. I buy for 240 Gold and WM. I sell to China for 90 Gold and their WM. Sell to Korea for 36 Gold and Maps. Everyone else is broke. Build Great Library with Tojo. Vet Sword against archer - wins and promotion. Elite Sword wins against Arab archer, wins but wounded.

550 BC (10) Great Library built!


Kagoshima Spear -> Spear, Osaka Settler -> Settler India refuses to leave. Big battles near Medina! 5 battles, 5 wins. Medina left standing with only one unfortified Archer. No GL (3 Elite battles). Next leader...apologies for the wounded units, but Medina should fall easily...
Wines should be connected next turn. The Great Library should start feeding us Techs next turn. Wheeee!!! Not a single unit lost!

Saved Game (550 BC)

Our newly conquered lands!

 

[Tsukemono5]

[dance] :santa: [dance]
This is awesome! Watch out world, cause the Japanese are coming!
OneFastWarrior, exterminate the Arabs and start our phase of Grab Every Land Even Remotely Possible (TM).
Rubberjello, you deserve a .

On an unrelated note, smilies rule.

 

[OneFastWarrior]

WOW, You are all very good players

Now some thoughts. I have downloaded the game and will play tonight sometime(I am also going to be up all night playing the GOTM20 Just getting started)

1st finish off the Arabs Do you think I should risk fighting to take Medina with the weakened 3\5 Elite sword(chance for a gl or send him to heal and send other,healed troops forward and attack with the 4\4 sword?

If \when I finsh off the arabs I plan to start sending some troops towards China to amass the troops for invasion, also build horsemen and send them in that direction.

Settlers, Should we send them towards the arab lands to fill in there or back fill our other lands? and should I only produce settlers out of Osaka only? I think 1 settler out of another city would help to expand quicker(your thoughts)

Also we should learn monarchy with our new techs and I will switch Government to Monarchy(being Religious we should suffer little\no anarchy).

We need to start our FP soon, any thoughts where this would be a good place to build.

I will continue to produce Military and the Occasional Culture to keep people happpy and expand our borders

Also I will continue to build more workers, We need to improve our land

About defense/mp in citys What are your thoughts, I usually keep about 2 or 3 in outer cities and 0 to 2 in inner cities

WE Need to start some libraries, any Ideas on good science city(ies) Obviously where we have good shields

Okay, so I'll check back here throughout the night and do my turn tonight or in the morning

 

[OneFastWarrior]

Oh yeah. Science, are we still not researching, I don't personally see the need as long as we are still able to trade if needed. and no gpt with china unless we honor the 20 turns

 

[Rubberjello]

Lot's of questions!

Errr.... Finish off Arabs. Gamble with the 3/5 Sword (it's only an archer!)

Settlers - Fill in Arab lands as a priority! India is trying to grab them right now. We can always push against China's borders later. Osaka should probably stay as our prime (only)Settler factory.

FP? We have a great central location as our Capitol. I'm leaning towards you getting us a GL to rush it down in Arab-lands!

I would start tailing off military builds except for Spears for Guard duty. We won't have to worry about MPs soon when a Government pops out of the GL.

Build those cheap temples everywhere! Libraries? Pretty darn expensive at this stage. Maybe some of our core cities can start if they have nothing better to do...

Definitely no science!!! That is why poor Tojo sacrificed his life for (The Great Library)

 

[OneFastWarrior]

Sorry for the Questions alot was also just thought that I wanted to share and see what the more experienced players thought. Trust me I am learning from you and I value your input. I will have the game done by tomorrow morning

 

[Tsukemono5]

Once we get Monarchy and can cash-rush, the first thing we do in EVERY captured city is rush a cheap temple, as long as there isn't anything better to do with the money.
And I think we should try to set up an extra, secondary settler factory closer to Arabia. India will get the soon enough, but until then, the more land, the better .

EDIT:
Oh, and One More Thing (TM of Sirian): After the world has returned to peace, start building up chariots, then horsemen, and try to get lots of markets. Why? Simple: They're on the upgrade path to samurai. IMHO, samurai are THE best knight replacement out there. Why? Well, with their extra point in defense, they can defend as well as a musketman and therefore have fairly good odds to survive a knight counterattack. So we build up pre-knights, move them into cities close to where we will attack, build barracks there, and then, on the turn Chivalry pops from the GL, well, *me rubs hands in anticipation*. The only problem is that two of our enemies, formerly three, all also have knight UUs. Unfortunately, they're the ones nearest us . So here's my plan: Storm through India, and Korea if need be, and clear a path to Ottoman country. Then sign peace with them, rebuild troops, build a supply line, and take him out. Sorry Ottomans, but Sipahi are too great a threat for us to even consider letting you survive to Mil Trad. After that, if Mil Trad is close, then build up samurai and do another mass upgrade to cavs once it comes in. Then wipe out Korea and India, and if we aren't over the domination limit, Egypt as well. Sound simple? Good. I've revised my plan in that we DON'T attack China. China will be our good buddy, simply so that we can sign him to MA if we want to distract some enemy troops.
Wow, my edit was longer than my original post . Give me some feedback. I'm off to play LoZ:OoT.

 

[OneFastWarrior]

I just wanted to share what happened on my 1st turn



I am sending him to mecca(FP?!) I will check back here when I get there. Go Hirohito

 

[betazed]

Fp in Mecca sounds great.

 

[Tsukemono5]

w00t!!!
We're having great GL luck this game. But I would recommend an army so we'll be eligible to build the Heroic Epic, which will increase our GL luck.

 

[OneFastWarrior]

well, I have one vote each. What are the advantages/drawbacks?

I kinda like the FP to decrease corruption. but there really is not much(yet) and If I remember correctly a heroic epic increases the chances of gl's after a victorious army. Then we would have a nice little army of swords to march into Korea with

I still have a couple turns left so... I'll be back

 

[Tsukemono5]

The reason why I'm opposed to the FP is I'd really prefer to have it in Seoul. We're going to walk over Korea on our way to take out the Ottomans, and Seoul will decrease corruption nicely in all our new conquests. Plus, making a sword army will last us until Feudalism, and we're going to be at peace then anyway . Heroic Epic will DOUBLE our chance of getting GLs, and since we have a high chance anyway (because we're militaristic), this is good.