Tupac03 - Aztecs in Space

[CommandoBob]

I think that this means that I will play now... Or do we wait for Bob?

Go ahead and play.

 

[Merlin]

OK, I got it and will play now.

 

[Merlin]

Pre-flight check: Make the deal with France for Democracy. Change Tarzana to harbour. I put Berlin on starvation, as it reduces the flip chance. I start revolution to get us to Democracy and faster workers.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 1 (910AD): We are a Democracy! I switch New Boston to duct.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 2 (920AD): Byron Bay: temple->rax.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 3 (930AD): Just worker movements.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 4 (940AD): Melbourne: Bank->Military Academy, prebuild for Wall Street. Rubyvale: market->bank. Germany, Greece and India have Steam Power and Free Artistry. I only have money for immediate steal, so I hold.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 5 (950AD): Perth: cav->cath, Nhullunbuy: harbour->temple. Try a careful steal from Germany, it fails... They don't declare.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 6 (960AD): New Boston: duct->cav, Byron Bay: rax->harbour.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 7 (970AD): Canberra: cav->worker. It's size 12 and we need workers for railroading. Bundaberg: court->duct.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 8 (980AD): Canberra: worker->cav. Try an immediate steal from the Germans->fails again. Germany don't declare... This is frustrating.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 9 (990AD): Cairns: bank->cav, Darwin: bank->cath, Alice Springs: bank->cath. We get the Wall Street message and I change Melbourne to it.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 10 (1000AD): Nhullunbuy: temple->market. Change Berlin from court to rax. If we move the palace there, it doesn't need a court.


Very quiet turns. I tried to get Germany to declare or steam by stealing. Neither happened and I lost lot of money. We are making 450gpt and we could try a new steal soon. We need steam to start railroading. Hopefully we have coal.

 

[Andronicus]

get Th Grav and enter Industrial Age
We get Nationalism (are we scientific? or has traits been modded?)

Something very strange is goign on with this game... first Germany doesn't get monotheism as their free tech (which always, and I mean ALWAYS happens in Vanilla), then we are treated as Scientific upon entering the Industrial Age something seriously weird is goign on here. No mods have been used, I don't even know how to use them.
Like I said before this start was rolled the same time as i rolled a start that featured 2 Aztecs (1 red, 1 green) and 2 Zulu (1 yellow, 1 black). Bizzare!

Had thought - if getting Th Grav gave Germans free Nationalism is this then tagged on for us when we steal it?

 

[Andronicus]

Not sure who's up now ... Bob hasnt played in a while ... otherwise I'm back

 

[tupaclives]

Bob you have 24 hours to post a got it or we are skipping you.

Hate to have to but we need to keep this moving.

@Andronicus - hmm, possibly, I don't know. Its all very odd and I don't have an explanation.

 

[Andronicus]

Some random thoughts

Research
We remain set up for accumulating money with no science multipliers
Do we cont this indefinitely or plan to switch to researching selected techs at some stage? I dont have a lot of experience with stealing way to tech parity.
What is most cost effective in terms of techs for dollars if we dont care about causing war (ie with Germany)? Is immediate steal worth it or is careful steal better value?
Is it worth paying safe steal if stealing from civ we dont want to be at war with (eg India or Greece if they are more advanced than Germany)?
Most wanted techs
1) Steam for rails to secure our area and to increase production and food
2) Industrialisation for factories to increase production
3) Sci Method for ToE (do we have a realistic chance of getting this either with leader rush or hand building in a size 12 shield rich city after factory and coal plant - rushed?)
4) Electronics - for Hoover
5) Replaceable Parts (perhaps this should be rated higher if we are unlikely to get above wonders) - for faster workers, arty and infantry (will need this once Germany has infantry), also seeing rubber to pillage
6) Commie? for spies or Refining for oil (again for resource denial but also to decide how far our war with Germany needs to go to possibly ensure they lack oil and rubber in the future)

Of course we also would need Medicine, Electricity and Corporation along the way - trding some of our stolen techs for others would help

Goals of War
we want war to reduce Bismark as he is too dangerous sharing our continent and besides he has a nice area around Berlin which would make a nice 2nd core
Being in Demo I suspect we would be hit by WW fairly early - checking happiness at end of each turn will be important and if req too much lux (? >30%) need to make use of our religeous trait and revolt to monarchy until end of war.
Goals of next war should be to remove towns around Berlin - Brandenberg, Leipzig, Hamberg, Salzberg, New berlin and perhaps Munich and Konisberg need razing and replacing with towns of our own - these should grow quickly after railing irrigation and with new capital in Berlin would be very strong cities. If we can find where rubber and oil is before end of war we should ensure Germany doesnt have them and we do.

Leaders
I see uses for 3 leaders prior to building another army (cav presumably)
These are ToE, Hoover and palace in Berlin. I would put Berlin palace last as it will reduce productivity and commerce in our current capital (although Canberra will remain a good city) and more particuarly the 4 cities south of Canberra.

Capital move to Berlin
Civ Assist shows Canberra inreasing wastage from 2% to 19% (13 with court), Melbourne and Adelaide increasing from 9-40 (27), TAK from 18->41 (32), Tarzana 25 -> 58 (41). All other cities are unchanged or improved, most markedly Berlin 60->2, Oodnadatta 25->9, Newcastle 47->12, to lesser extent Townsville and Rubyvale 16->9, Nhull and Rockhampton 18->13, Broome 25->19, Bundaberg 35->20
I would suggest RCP5 around Berlin allowing more low corruption cities around Darwin - this unfortunately means moving Oodnadatta, but we have invested minimal infrastructure in this town so I think it worthwhile (Oodnadatta can sell temple and rax and build settlers) -I attach a proposed dotmap
Berlin building rax - I suggest start infrastructure in preparation for palace move - I would build court (I realise that was changed as court no use after palace shift, but is useful for building market, cathedral and bank prior to palace move)



BTW now our cities are growing I propose abandoning New Boston. At size 12 the surrounding towns will be able to utilise all tiles in its radius making this town superfluous and requiring additional expense to support its infrastructure. I recommend using it to build settlers for our proposed new towns around Berlin and selling off bank and market when they are no longer making us a profit (probably bank at size 2 and market when finally abandoned), but selling rax now.

 

[Andronicus]

@ CommandoBob - are you playing soon - I have this afternoon free ...

 

[tupaclives]

Go ahead and play Andronics, we have the day off after all.

 

[Andronicus]

Any comments re proposed abandoning of New Boston and moving of Oodnadatta?
Any votes for RCP4 from Berlin, keeping Oodnadatta and moving Newcastle?
Any advice re optimal mode of stealing - immediate / careful / safe?
Thoughts re trying for industrial wonders - ? prepare a shield rich city to attempt / ? await our luck with leaders

Comments anyone ... will play shortly but check here first

 

[CommandoBob]

Andronicus, go ahead and play; I need a few days go get up to speed on what is going on.

 

[classical_hero]

It is wierd being in a Democracy.

 

[Andronicus]

Summary

Didnt completely follow my plan

We have remained at peace - unfortunately I signed a peace treaty with Bismark lasting 20 turns when last one expired (to have dowed then would have meant losing most of our workers)

Tech steals after initial fails have been successful culminating in Sci Meth on last turn to allow ToE prebuild to complete during next turnset

I have not built settlers nor abandoned New Boston and Oodnadatta, yet - I sold improvements costing us and built workers as we have a current need with RRing. I maintain that they should be abandoned after producing settlers - New Boston is already crowding surrounding towns, Oodnadatta could wait till palace jump

Replaceable Parts is known to Greeks and Indians - would be nice to steal it and dow on Bismark before he gets it but very unlikely

Plan for ToE I suggest - atomic / electronics, then building Hoover in Darwin (our 56spt ToE building city)

Worker gangs are busy getting other cities up to speed RRing for shields and growth - we should be in great shape regarding production at end of current German peace treaty to wipe off Germans from our continent. One thought - may want to build a few more cannons before stealing replacable parts as Leo's gives us cheap upgrade and we will need arties galore if fighting infantry

 

[Andronicus]

Turn log

Pre turn
Berlin now size 1 - good, can now grow. Build court to more quickly build infrastructure pre palace jump
New Boston - let cav complete then settlers -> abandon
Townsville -pinch hills from New Boston and Broome to speed duct
Making 450gpt with 1224 in the bank
Current deals - 5 turns till France deal for ivory up for renewal, 9 till Egypt's incense / dyes comes up, currently providing France (Furs for Ivory), India (gems for 18gpt) and Greece (furs for 6gpt and gems for 18gpt) with lux - not getting much from Greece for furs
Tech situation - Egypt lacks Nationalism, Germany, Greece and India have steam, medicine & commo, France has just commo (all have free artistry - but that's irrelevent)
Egypt only has Free Artistry, WM and 23g to offer for nationalism - not worth it

IT
Germany dow France
Tarzana - harbour -> court
IHC bank -> duct

1) 1010AD
Insufficient funds for careful steal
France now has steam
Renegotiate Greek furs deal for 13gpt
Military is weak to India, ave to Germany & Egypt and strong to Greece & France
So ... renegotiate peace treaty with Alex netting 80g and renegotiate with Joan - she has no money but is willing to give us steam for gems and gpt (is our rep OK now?) Its expensive but cheaper than careful steal and France is not a world leader so no risk of them becoming a runaway
Trade France steam for gems, 78gpt + 10g
We have coal so start railing
(Coal is within Melbourne's city radius - if only iron there hadnt depleted ... )

IT
Egypt and Germany sign MPP

2) 1020AD
Egypt now has Nationalism - ? from Germany for MPP
Greece and India have Electricity
Attempt careful steal from Greece - our agent is caught and Alex is not pleased

IT
Germany demands we move troops in their area - workers geting irrigation to Byron Bay - say yes but wont
Oodnadatta cav -> worker (decide I need more workers for railing)
Perth cath -> worker
Byron Bay harbour -> market
Townsville duct -> bank

3) 1030AD
Germany now has electricity
Immediate steal fails - Bismark is really shi..y, no war though

IT
Egypt dow French (MPP and all)
India offers to renew gems for 18gpt deal, I feel greedy get 33gpt
Renew peace deal with Germany comes automatically
Brisbane bank -> cav
Perth worker -> cav
TAK court -> bank
Rockhampton bank -> court

4) 1040AD
Yea we successfully steal Electricity on immediate steal
Trade France Medicine +16gpt for Electricity
Bismark has kicked Joan off our continent
I commence min run on sanitation
Egypt still has little to pay for techs 11gpt and small change

IT
Bismark demands we leave and I only have move automatically option - strange I've never had that happen before with non-combat units
Canberra cav -> cav
New Boston cav -> worker
Oodnadatta worker -> worker
Cairnes cav -> cav
Darwin Cath -> palace - prebuild for ToE (29 turns presently, will accelerate with RRing mines)
India completes Shakes - no other wonders for others to cascade to

5) 1050AD
Rail network now links Darwin and Canberra to Berlin
Greece and India now have Industrialisation
Carefully steal Industrialisation from Greeks - switch a few builds to factories

IT
Req 13gpt to renew ivory fur deal with France
Germans building Univ Suffrage so they got Industrial too
Greeks switch to universal suffrage and India commences

6) 1060AD
Rush factory in Darwin - should get it to 30spt

IT
New Boston worker -> worker
Oodnadatta worker -> worker
Darwin factory (33spt) -> coal plant

7) 1070AD
RRing at Darwin gets up to 40spt, short rush coal plant using colloseum and sword disband

IT
Indian galley suspiciously enters our waters south of Tarzana
Adelaide bank -> cathedral
Darwin coal plant (54spt) -> Univers Suff (prebuild for ToE)

8) 1080AD
lots of railing and subsequent MMing
only techs others have are free artistry and commie

IT
New Boston worker -> worker
Oodnadatta worker -> settler

9) 1090AD
Dyes / incense deal with Egypt expires - renew with electricity and take all else Egypt has to offer (not much - free artistry, WM, 1g)
No new techs avail to steal

IT
Greece declines to renew 16gpt for gems deal - will only offer 10gpt - I decline as 10gpt is chicken feed for us but extra lux is quite a bit for him
Melbourne completes Wall St -> harbour
IHC duct -> harbour
Greeks are building ToE

10) 1100AD
Greece and India have both Sci Meth + Replacable parts, Germany has Sci Method
Immed steal Germany successful -> Sci method - ToE due in 9
Greece building ToE in Pithom - a tiny tundra island, Uni Suff being built in Heidelberg - tundra town and Indians at Bangalore and Greece at Argos, one of which is likely to be sucessful - the other will cascade to ToE so feel free to investigate these cities if concerned but I would be very surprised if they are near

 

[Merlin]

So ... renegotiate peace treaty with Alex netting 80g and renegotiate with Joan - she has no money but is willing to give us steam for gems and gpt (is our rep OK now?)

You can always do gpt deals in peace deals, even if your rep is toasted.

Nice stealing and tech parity! Now that there are wars and we have railroads and factories, we could start to build libs and unis. Lot of wars so it holds their research.

 

[tupaclives]

Good stuff Andronicus, Bob you are up now.

 

[CommandoBob]

I'll post my 'Get' when I get home and open the game.

 

[CommandoBob]

End of Previous Turnset Stats:

Science: Sanitation, 34 turns
Treasury: 538 gold, +520 gpt, 10.0.0
Cities:

1. Canberra (12) grows in 9999, factory in 10
2. Brisbane (9) grows in 12, factory in 28
3. New Boston (5) zero growth, worker in 1 (city to be abandoned)
4. Oodnadatta (4) grows in 1, settler in 5
5. Perth (10) grows in 6, factory in 13
6. Melbourne (10) grows in 1, harbor in 2
7. Adelaide (11) grows in 6, cathedral in 8
8. Newcastle (6) grows in 17, courthouse in 6
9. Thats-A-Knife (8) grows in 6, bank in 25
10. Tarzana (9) grows in 13, cathedral in 8
11. Byron Bay (4) grows in 4, market in 12
12. Cairns (10) grows in 6, factory in 12
13. Bundaberg (6) zero growth, aqueduct in 11
14. Rubyvale (8) grows in 14, factory in 6
15. Townsville (7) grows in 34, bank in 20
16. Darwin (12) zero growth, Theory of Evolution in 9
17. Broome (8) grows in 2, bank in 10
18. Iron Horse City (6) zero growth, harbor in 4
19. Alice Springs (8) grows in 2, factory in 5
20. Nhullunbuy (7) grows in 4, market in 3
21. Rockhampton (8) grows in 4, courthouse in 3
22. Berlin (3) grows in 4, courthouse in 28

City Builds:

• factory [6] (Canberra, Brisbane, Perth, Cairns, Rubyvale and Alice Springs)
• worker [1] (New Boston)
• settler [1] (Oodnadatta)
• harbor [2] (Melbourne and Iron Horse City)
• cathedral [2] (Adelaide and Tarzana)
• courthouse [3] (Newcastle, Rockhampton and Berlin)
• bank [3] (Thats-A-Knife, Townsville and Broome)
• market [2] (Byron Bay and Nhullunbuy)
• aqueduct [1] (Bundaberg)
• Theory of Evolution [1] (Darwin)

Military:

• workers 027, 001 in production
• settlers 000, 001 in production
• swordsman 008
• longbowsman 002
• knights 009
• rifleman 007
• calvary 027
• cannon 026
• army 002

Wonder Race:

• Universal Suffrage (3)
  • Germany - Heidelberg
  • Greeks - Argos
  • Indians - Bangalore
• Theory of Evolution (2)
  • Aztecs - Darwin
  • Greeks - Pithom

Towns unrailed:

• Perth (10)
• Newcastle (6)
• Thats-A-Knife (8)
• Tarzana (9)
• Byron Bay (4)
• Bundaberg (6)
• Broome (8)
• Nhullunbuy (7)
• Rockhampton (8)

Long Term Goals
Be the first to Alpha Centauri.

Mid Term Goals

• Remove Germany.
• Peace with Germany for 13 more turns.
  

Short Term Goals

• Abandon New Boston (5), selling off improvements and rushing a worker every other turn.
• Oodnadatta (4) makes workers and made ready to abandon.
• Investigate Bangalore and Argos to avoid wonder cascade.
• Build New Oodnadatta 2 NW of current city (RCP5 to Berlin).
• Build towards three more settlers to fill out RCP5 around Berlin.
• Start learning Atomic Theory, so that we get both it and Electronics with ToE, and then go back to Sanitation.
• Build veteran Knights to assault Germany later.
• Consider stealing Replaceable Parts from either Greece or India.
• Connect rails to all cities.

Plan to play tomorrow, allowing the team time to give feedback, correction, improvements and other ideas.

 

[Andronicus]

Towns unrailed:

• Perth (10)
• Newcastle (6)
• Thats-A-Knife (8)
• Tarzana (9)
• Byron Bay (4)
• Bundaberg (6)
• Broome (8)
• Nhullunbuy (7)
• Rockhampton (8)

MM will change sig with railing - smaller towns may req irr after railing to grow then remining to max productivity

[*] Abandon New Boston (5), selling off improvements and rushing a worker every other turn.

We dont pay for market nor bank because of Smith's so only sell when about to abandon

[*] Oodnadatta (4) makes workers and made ready to abandon.

Has good food so can produce the 5 or so settlers we need - dont need to abandon until palace shifted as no effect on corruption till then

[*] Investigate Bangalore and Argos to avoid wonder cascade.

I think this is optional as only will cascade once one builds Suffrage (800 shields) unlikely for some time

[*] Build New Oodnadatta 2 NW of current city (RCP5 to Berlin).

I think it OK to settle this soon, but other RCP5 towns to Berlin should wait till after war (or the front is well away) as they will require defending

[*] Start learning Atomic Theory, so that we get both it and Electronics with ToE, and then go back to Sanitation.

Yea - make sure to switch prior to building ToE - can probably scrub the lone scientist for now

[*] Build veteran Knights to assault Germany later.

I think you mean cavs unless we disconnect salt. Once factories built then towns with bank and cathedral should go to cavs or cannon (I think cathedrals will be needed by size 12 cities to cope with inevitable WW - I'm expecting we will need to take a temporary detour to monarchy once WW hits higher - we need to have sufficient cavs produced first

[*] Consider stealing Replaceable Parts from either Greece or India.

No hurry on this as we can build rifles and cannon, then quickly upgrade if steal just prior to dow Germany (OTOH faster workers makes RRing faster)

[*] Connect rails to all cities.

Rail every tile - consider railing near border well before war so workers not left vulnerable

PS plans for
Berlin - court, then market
Newcastle - court then duct, market
IHC - harbour then req irrigating RR tiles to grow
Bundaberg - duct then harbour so can use duct

I see all towns getting to size 11 or 12 using every avail tile, minimise wastage of food by mining, maximise growth rapidly by irrigating RR tiles

 

[CommandoBob]

Turn Set 20 1100 AD

[IBT 1100 AD]
Change science to Atomic Theory.
New Boston worker -> worker, 3 turns (zero growth).
India is building the Theory of Evolution.

01 1110 AD

Just worker moves.
Rail to Rockhampton.
Rail to the East of Nhullunbuy, shorter route to Bundaberg.
Rail to Perth via New Boston.
Rail Bryon Bay to Oodnadatta.
​

[IBT]
Melbourne harbor -> vCavalry, 4 turns.

02 1120 AD

Rail to Bundaberg.
Rail to Thats-A-Knife.
Rail to Broome.
MM Oodnadatta to build settler in 1 turn.
​

[IBT]
Oodnadatta settler -> settler, 8 turns.
Nhullunbuy market -> library, 9 turns.
Rockhampton courthouse -> factory, 22 turns.

03 1130 AD

Rail to Newcastle.
Build Gem City 2NW of Oodnadatta, grows in 10, factory in 120.
Rail from Newcastle across the grasslands to Berlin.
Begin railing the German border, starting on the Leipzig side (SE of Berlin).
​

[IBT]
India and Egypt scout our south coast.
New Boston worker -> worker, 4 turns.
Iron Horse City harbor -> factory, 20 turns.

04 1140 AD

Railing around Darwin to get ToE faster. More shields, but stuck at 5 turns.
​

[IBT]
Boats move away from our southern shores.
Alice Springs factory -> vCavalry, 3 turns.
Germans are building Theory of Evolution.
So are the Egyptians.
And the French.
India and Greece learn Sanitation.

05 1150 AD

Huge overrun in Rubyvale, buy two bean counters for one turn.
​

[IBT]
Melbourne vCavalry -> vCalvary, 4 turns.
Newcastle courthouse -> aqueduct, 13 turns.
Rubyvale factory -> bank, 7 turns, (bean counters are put back to work)

06 1160 AD

Rush worker in New Boston, 16 gold.
​

[IBT]
New Boston worker -> worker, 3 turns.

07 1170 AD

Hire a geek in New Boston.
​

[IBT]
France wants to talk. Joan wants to swap WMs and she has no cash. No thanks.
France and Egypt sign a peace treaty.
Adelaide cathedral -> factory, 24 turns.
Tarzana courthouse -> factory, 30 turns.
Alice Springs vCavalry -> vCavalry

08 1180 AD

Rush worker in New Boston for 28 gold.
​

[IBT]
New Boston worker -> worker, 5 turns.
Oodnadatta, settler -> settler, 8 turns.

Darwin 1180 AD

Darwin ToE -> Hoover Dam, 13 turns.

09 1190 AD

Change the bean counter in Adelaide to geek to keep us at 40 turns per tech.
​

[IBT]
Egypt declares war on the Greeks.
Canberra factory -> cannon, 2 turns.
Melbourne vCavalry -> vCavalry, 4 turns.
Byron Bay market -> aqueduct, 12 turns.
Broome bank -> temple, 6 turns.

10 1200 AD

Rush worker in New Boston for 36 gold (city to be abandoned next turn).
​

[IBT]

End of Turnset 20 Stats:

Science: Radio, 39 turns
Treasury: 6072 gold, +572 gpt, 10.0.0
Cities:

1. Canberra (12) grows in 9999, cannon in 2
2. Brisbane (9) grows in 2, factory in 16
3. New Boston (1) zero growth, worker in 1 (city to be abandoned)
4. Oodnadatta (2) grows in 4, settler in 7
5. Perth (11) grows in 6, factory in 2
6. Melbourne (11) grows in 12, vCavalry in 4
7. Adelaide (9) grows in 36, factory in 17
8. Newcastle (6) grows in 7, aqueduct in 7
9. Thats-A-Knife (9) grows in 3, bank in 11
10. Tarzana (9) grows in 3, factory in 28
11. Byron Bay (5) grows in 2, aqueduct in 12
12. Cairns (11) grows in 7, factory in 1
13. Bundaberg (6) zero growth, aqueduct in 1
14. Rubyvale (8) grows in 5, bank in 3
15. Townsville (7) grows in 24, bank in 10
16. Darwin (12) zero growth, Hoover Dam in 12
17. Broome (10) grows in 4, temple in 6
18. Iron Horse City (6) grows in 6, factory in 14
19. Alice Springs (9) grows in 12, vCavalry in 1
20. Nhullunbuy (8) grows in 7, library in 2
21. Rockhampton (8) grows in 4, factory in 13
22. Gem City (1) grows in 3, factory in 113
23. Berlin (5) grows in 4, courthouse in 18

City Builds:

• cannon [1] (Canberra)
• factory [8] (Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, Tarzana, Cairns, Iron Horse City, Rockhampton and Gem City)
• worker [1] (New Boston)
• settler [1] (Oodnadatta)
• vCavalry [2] (Melbourne and Alice Springs)
• aqueduct [3] (Newcastle, Byron Bay and Bundaberg)
• bank [3] (Thats-A-Knife, Rubyvale and Townsville)
• Hoover Dam [1] (Darwin)
• temple [1] (Broome)
• library [1] (Nhullunbuy)
• courthouse [1] (Berlin)
  

Military:

• settlers 001, 001 in production
• workers 031, 001 in production
• swordsman 008
• longbowsman 002
• knights 009
• rifleman 007
• cavalry 030, 002 in production
• cannon 026
• army 002

Wonder Race:

• Universal Suffrage (3)
  • Germany - Heidelberg
  • Greeks - Argos
  • Indians - Bangalore
• Hoover Dam (1)
  • Aztecs - Darwin

And the >>SAVE<< is here.