Turn 101 - 150

I can answer this one... Nationhood gives +2 faces for Rax... but clearly they dont choose it for this so what is it??

+25% points in all cities... This is why they picked it for sure. Remember that they have TGW. They are preparing for the upcoming War by getting their ratios nice and high against us and everyone else. 2metra can say how much easier it is to fight and win even a 2-front War with sky high espy on your enemies.

And before you say "But we have a no-espy treaty with RB!" remember that your ratios go up on EVERYONE no matter who you direct your espy points towards. Ratios go by total points generated.

 

nationhood has another benefit with no upkeep cost, so it's in a sense economic trait too. this part is usually underestimated.

Well seems to me logical they will procede with plans even without GA from tM... they probably have some timing in mind.

We made their plans only a little bit more costly.

I would be pretty surprised if they can't draft at least maces, which is CS+Machinery...

I remember someone typing they are setting up GT so nationhood was obvious choice.

 

tye dont have machinery yet.

 

Revolted to pacifsm ,caste which saved us exactly 10 gold,and i hired loads of specealist,but i decided to get second great perdon first from our mids city.Why? becasue we had 125 already stored there and everithing we get from there would be excelent:
Gm-trade mision 1300-1500 gold in franch capitol.
scinetist- 1800+ bulb for Education , pp so we have what to do with those.
GE- i think bulbing enginerring and getting notre dame and using 3 movement roads for our units would be great.
Prophet- well we still have yo build a shrine, or we can bulb teocracy so planty goos option.

After that in 2 turns we will get another great person from our mechant city, there will have like
85% merchant, 15 scinetist.
And after golden age will finish will get our sure scientist from mantra.
How that sounds?

 

at this point I would consider chaining GA's stronger option then using GE on not so useful wonder.
Getting engineering is nice though... but tough to argue for bulb of eng though.

I think we discussed Edu plenty and I still think it's better to go banks especially if the plan is Knights + tanking economy.

nothing against trade mission which is together with chaining GA's the strongest option right now...

 

I always do enjoy getting two consecutive golden ages, so I'm in favor of chaining them too.

 

What is so good about chaining them? I usually prefer them separate, for different game stages and corresponding civic changes. Here we are spiritual so it does not apply - but GA ages get more powerful later, with more pop etc

I am not sure about bulbing engineering mostly for Notre Dame - we can get +2 happy from nationhood (and cheap barracks). But +1 road movement - and trebuchets - are nice for war.

Wrt to nationhood, RB is clearly preparing for war. Perhaps they want to draft only/mostly in their Globe Theatre City? Then it takes time. They are not that far away from maces, they have civil service. Nationhood also is cheap, gives +2 happy from barracks and +25% EP (only making sense if you run EP slider).

I thinkk Bowsling and others may be right that part of the reason they switch show early is that they want to proceed with their plans - Taj or not.

I was also never sure what is best strategy when you have to go through revolt - do it as early as possible or in the last moment? I understand that for precise answer one would have to compute Return on Investment and such, but was is a rule of thumb at different stages of the game?

 

@ bistrita- Is Education for Universities or as stepping stone to something else?

 

I like to use the 16 turns to either research or build my way into a superior position. One golden age is nice, but 16 straight turns of golden age can really set you up to complete your objective. In this case, it's to take out the Spanish and deal with RB.

While the golden age is more powerful later in the game, we might be in a better position if we chain them now and have more population from a wide empire, rather than waiting for our cities to grow to start one.

 

Many quetsion around..
Why we would want another golden age after this one when we plan to whip like 40 people away?
Enginerring its best tech when you plan to conquer someone,and actualy we realy need happines from notre damme.

we will want our first golden age using a specealits after zulu land are in our pozition and strat to be usefull,and we can get more Great persons anyway we will set up national epic and using caste and pacifism can get 1-2 very fast.

I already said that we will go for banks first and getting the scientist will take a while but why dont acumullte some points in GA.

And 2metra , soryy but i think you lost again , if i remeber bet corect the bet i said pacifism ,caste would save 10-15 well its saving exaclty 10 still on edge but saving 10.

 

If we're going to be doing mass whippings then yes, two chained golden ages would not be the optimum route. It all depends on whether that's our plan- probably the way to go if we want to conquer Spain (I know I do!).

 

Well, guys and gals, I'm back home.

Have much to read and comment, maybe tomorrow. I'm glad things were moving nice and neat in my absence, thanks a lot Bistrita for taking care of all the stuff as planned. And yes, I owe you one more beer about Pacifism.

 

Because of the road movements or trebs? Or both equally important?

 

Mostly movement. If someone is to just stay in his cities and wait for you to kill him with trebuchets, he is already dead.

 

Sadly, not always true for me

 

Chaining GAs is for accumulating huge temp advantage, which can make you unstoppable. Like if you are tied up with someone on techs and say you both need 30 turns to get to Rifles. But then you launch a GA and you are say 22 turns from Rifles. That gives you 8 turns of window of opportunity to use your superior units and crush your enemy. But 8 turns is not a lot. Producing enough units (even so much advanced as Rifles vs Muskets) takes time, moving them in position takes time and those 8 turns wont be enough to have decisive win. Where if you chain one more GA, the time to Rifles (including some GP born) drops again, so you have like 15 turns window of opportunity to produce rifles and break you enemy's backbone. When he starts losing cities and resources and territory, he will start to even further fall behind, so you might be able to crush him with the unexpected and undone advantage your second GA can give you.

ND is great. We dont have so much happy resources that we can ignore easy +2. Barracks and Nationalism are nice, but only temp solution. If we stay at Nationalism, we will lose our insane Bureaucratic capitol. Right now, I can bet Indira is making about half the beakers for our whole empire.

Yes, RB is not that away from maces. But I am not sure against whom they are preparing for war. My prognosis that Germans will be their first victim met the unbelief lately because of the Marble-Happy deal with RB. But we know RB have NAPs with all of their other neighbors for the next 25 turns at least (this needs checking and updating to be precise). So, who RB are going to war to? Is it possible scenario that RB went in to nationalism as a diplomatic lever to try and force some of their "troublesome" neighbors in to accepting longer NAP with them? Something like: "We can draft like mad and we are prepared and determined to do so, so if you are smart, you will take our NAP and spare yourself the unpleasant experience of fighting with us".

Or maybe RB are afraid that Poly and CP could take advantage of the big, but very very weak Germans and having no clauses with them to not support their enemies they can use their standing army to keep the status quo?

I think going in to Nationalism is logical, but more about economical move. Their empire is vast (well, not 50+ cities, but with Emperor difficulty and toroidal) and their maintenance for their many cities must be some serious money. With their capitol being underdeveloped (no market, no forge, no academy, not even a single monastery), Nationalism can easily outperform Bureaucratic capitol.

"As for why they switch now?" I think there may be some reason in them closing the limit for 1-turn-anarchy-switch. maybe if they wait a bit more, they will need 2 turns in anarchy for the switch and they prefer to do it now.

 

We're not far from maces, have been asking around for map details about iron, already have one of the strongest militaries, just proved things aren't all roses between them and us by pinching their favourite wonder, and have recently signed a peace deal with the neighbour they expected us to invade. If they're in an arms race, I suspect it's with us.

 

No, no. I doubt this is the case. We have 40+ turns of NAP with them. Thats a lot.

 

I went in the game to see how things look (at last). But it was early in the morning, I was hurrying for work, saw we are the last team to end turn and that all our moves were done and ended turn to not hold the game, but forgot we might need screenshots.

I liked what I saw in-game. So far, so good. We have solid amount of money in cash. 835 gold. One more turn at 100% money (~300 gpt) and we will probably have enough money to tech Machinery, HBR, Feudalism and Guilds in the next 6-7-8 turns at 100% science slider.