Turn Discussion Thread

[AlphaShard]

Because they want survive and we are a threat to them. We have never had a NAP with Quat and we could make a promise not to attack them.

I also didn't realize they were such sticklers about the world wonders.

 

[Lord Parkin]

They're probably grabbing at any and every reason they can think of to attack us. I doubt the wonders actually matter that much to them.

Seems from the limited stuff I've read that they pulled a sneaky low blow to screw us over. But that's not against the rules - just very questionable ethics.

I haven't really had the time to pay much attention to this game for a very long time now, so sorry if I can't offer more input.

 

[AlphaShard]

I just don't like that they attacked in the first half of the turn.

Anyrate Bulb are you going to play this turn?

Do we at least want to try and get one of the monkeys (Quat) off our backs even for ten turns?

 

[BLubmuz]

Not only i played, but did many things, then i just logged to see news:
- First i moved all our trasports, even the useless, to load the Quat invasion force and covered them with all our remaining destroyers. To use empty trasports was a good move, since Quat attacked with all theis destroyers but the empty transports defended, saving the loaded ones and 2 destroyers.
- Obviously i offered peace to Quat, but like we can see from the above events, they refused.
- I offered a deal (3 for 3) of resources to CDZ, but Socralinnek logged out when i logged in, so we must wait to see the outcome. Of course nothing has changed -for now- with CDZ. Our resource trades and borders are still open.
- I took and razed the Ama city on the coast North of Mizar, destroying 6 units and losing 2
- Now we got a stack of 4 arties+1 rifle treatening the central city
- now we got 1 rifle, 1 arty and 2 cavs near the marble city. more cavs can attack next turn.
- the Cape city is empty and a cav is ready to take it.
- Ama has (probably) all their attacking force concentrated on the center and heading to Bode.
- What really worries me are the galleons they brought there. they builded forts to pass and destroyed ours with spies prior to attack
- Altair (incense) was took and razed by a single rifle attacking from a galleon. That was the first act of the war after the spies destroyed the forts.

Our problem is to bring our main force to Bode. Luckily it's our best production area and can be pretty easily be helped by our core island, but we need one more transport.
I was thinking to keep our main force in the transports and land them in the center.
After Quat's attack this is all but safe. We lack destroyers to defend them, so we'll be forced to unload them in Alcor and keep the destroyers there.

With their impressive force Quat can invade and we can't do nothing by sea, so we must keep a good number of units in the area and hope they land there instead to move to the islands.

More on the Ama Diplo thread.

 

[Irgy]

This isn't surprising. Our diplomacy has been awful (mostly my fault for not participating more actively).

And my fault for quitting (although I maintain I had no real choice due to RL), and Blubmuz's fault for declaring on Quat without half the team knowing about it and generally having no understanding whatsoever of any of our treaties. I don't really think it's much to do with you Trystero.

I'm surprised it took Amazon as long as they did to declare war, they've effectively been able to from 1500AD without breaking any treaty, and I honestly cannot think of a single reason for them not to have done it. The wording we finished up with was that the ASP could be cancelled at no notice any time after 1500AD. We wanted to have a cancelation period, but they wanted to either have a cancelation period or an expiry date but not both, and we chose the date. The stuff about the wonders is just them needlessly making the point about how many ways in which we haven't been sticking to the treaty.

Anyway, excited to see how all this turns out. At least our objectives are clear now. It should be a very interesting battle.

 

[BLubmuz]

I played, but i must log again to refine.
Quat blocked with 2 damaged destroyers and with full health ones all the water tiles where our transports can go.
Luckily i logged few hours before the end of turns, so i upgraded a frigate.
I burnt that one and a damaged destroyer on the 2, then chosen 2 transports with the ewakest units to attack. Both won!!! Now all our invasion force is safe in Alcor. Moved a few units to take the former Mav city, with 2 units there. To take the central city 1 arty was enough, then a rifle completed the job. Razed, of course. No losses.

The marble city was costly: 1 arty survived, but then i lose 3 cavs against an MG. Now it's razed. 2 cavs are heading to the Cape city, now undefended.
I'd like to keep it, but it can be not easy to defend.

The former Mav city is a keep, i think. Let's hope to not lose too many troops in the process.

A good and lucky move i made was to burn Ama's westernmost fort with a spy, then caught. I got one in each fort now, but not enough EPs

Now, internal problems.
Now that we lost the luxuries from Ama and Quat, all our cities have many unhappy citizens. We must wait for CDZ to log to see if they accept our proposal, but in any case many are loo large.

I propose the following:
- launch a GAge now, this turn
- immediately revolt to representation (+3 in 6 largest cities) and slavery, maybe even nationhood (i think a draft is too costly in terms of happiness). Whip like mad for 5-6 turns to reduce the size of some city, then back to Emancipation. Not sure about an immediate revolt to US, since we need gold for upgrades. Maybe in the last turn of GAge. The +1hammer from Towns is not much, since we have just 10 or so (remember i counted them when we decided if FS was worthy).
- build theaters and markets in any city, obviously after some unit
- we need to rebuild our Navy
- finish Shakespeare in Rigel

I need your opinion on the above in the next 12 hours, otherwise i will act as above described.

 

[AlphaShard]

To help our Happiness we should build Jails which will reduce war weariness. It seems that Whale has been expired already, so we need to conquer Spot B for the ivory.

We still have incense but I think Amazon will burn it since they burned the forts, they probably should have kept those.

As far as the civics go I think Nationhood could be good as well as Slavery. However I would like State Property.

Good job burning those excess cities btw Bulb. I found it funny the smack talk 2Metra was saying yet he lost three cities to our one City Altair.

I also do not have high hopes that CDZ is going to agree with anything, the best I think we can do with them is a NAP.

 

[Trystero]

I also doubt CDZ is going to agree to anything. The plan looks good to me.

 

[BLubmuz]

To help our Happiness we should build Jails which will reduce war weariness. It seems that Whale has been expired already, so we need to conquer Spot B for the ivory.

Yes, but don't forget we're Creative, thus Theaters and Colosseums are very cheap. And that we got dyes. But Jails help espionage, so i think i will build some when i can

We still have incense but I think Amazon will burn it since they burned the forts, they probably should have kept those.

Ama burned the forts for tactics reasons, but sure, they can burn our plantations.

As far as the civics go I think Nationhood could be good as well as Slavery. However I would like State Property.

SP requires communism, which we don't plan to research soon. But we have CHs in almost all the cities and a well placed FP. Every draft means 2-3 citizens and you got only half XP. Better whip. In case we can draft in Rigel, after the Shakespeare.

Good job burning those excess cities btw Bulb. I found it funny the smack talk 2Metra was saying yet he lost three cities to our one City Altair.

That was planned, according to the signs on the map. Of course i agreed with that.
2m sent his message before i logged and i don't hink he will be surprised to see his cities razed.
BTW, what about the Cape city? Is it better to keep it to avoid settlers there or defend it can be one more problem?

I also do not have high hopes that CDZ is going to agree with anything, the best I think we can do with them is a NAP.

I also doubt CDZ is going to agree to anything. The plan looks good to me.

I doubt too, but i think that the chance they can accept is worth the few seconds spent.

Trystero, can you try to draft a message for them asking for a NAP?
They ignored the most of our messages, but we need to explore any possibility.

 

[AlphaShard]

I think they ignore us to buy time.

I think Cape city may be worth keeping for the commerce. It's far from the front.

 

[BLubmuz]

News:
started the GAge (12 turns)
revolted to Representation and Nationhood. Not dared to revolt to slavery, we're at the happy cap in many cities and Rigel is still with 1. But soon that will cease to be a problem, the Globe will be completed in 3 turns.

Destroyed a galleon near Saber (SE of Rigel) i hope it was loaded. Probably 2m. counted the moves, but i promoted the destroyer to Nav1, so it's gone

I'm running 10% culture and 30% Espionage, set 4 to Ama, 1 to CDZ, 0 to Quat.
I hope to be able to destroy the forts next turn.
I also think that destroying the fort (as described in my previous post) the galleons in there were moved in the nearest sea tile. Luckily they were moved S, so they are almost useless for awhile.

Then i tried a defensive attack from Hadar. 2 arties made a good job and survived. Then i lack 1 rifle, so drafted from Beta C., and destroyed 5 rifles, using the mace and the XBow to mop up.

I queued a drydock in Antares - good production there - and we need to produce naval units near where they're needed.

 

[BLubmuz]

Disaster have stuck!
Procyon and Arcturus razed. I don't know how they manage to do it. Better... i can imagine how they did with Procyon, but Arcturus was impossible to reach. Logged again.
They have a GG Cav with Commando. Who was the one researching MS? damn him!

So Notre Dame is gone forever and we have to rebuild the HE and IW... nice!

 

[AlphaShard]

I believe that was Quat that did MS.

 

[Trystero]

Ugh. How the heck did they reach that far into Bode? What sort of defenses did we have? Did you manage any sort of counter attack?

 

[BLubmuz]

I believe that was Quat that did MS.

Yes, they did when we were at war. I think it was HUSch who proposed to research it. I Remember we did it and gave it to Ama.
It was in the period when i was working on my PC, so a couple months ago.

Ugh. How the heck did they reach that far into Bode? What sort of defenses did we have? Did you manage any sort of counter attack?

I probably (but i can almost swear i look carefully to any stack in the Center area) overlooked it, but Ama used a transport to raze Procyon, defended by a warrior.

Then (i remember i have seen a GG in the center) he used that GG to promote a Cav to C4+Commando. Easy to kill our archer and go back in the stack.

Now, if Quat will attack Comet we can easily resist and counter attack.
But if they head to former India it won't be so easy.

It's just useless remember that months ago i asked that any city should have at least a LB to defend.

Anyway, it's my fault. I could have drafted 1 rifle in both our now razed cities, but seeing they were safe i preferred to wait this turn to draft infantries. Procyon has also problems of happiness and this was another reason.

I did not thought to the Commando, it's a promo i don't use since i play BtS, 'cause i never research MS if not in my time games for he HoF. And when i research it, i got Gunships.

 

[BLubmuz]

So, AL is in! i upgraded a few rifles and a mace to Inf.
Started Elec.
Destroyed a transport, but i think it was empty. The destroyer can be considered dead.

50% success with the forts. I tried first the most important, no. then the other one, done, spy in Sirius.

Not made many moves, just took the undefended cape city and garrisoned.
Moved 1E the stack blocking the access to Comet. Lost the fortify bonus, but we can't let it there doing nothing.

The stack Ama have in Bode is too big to afford for now.
Drafted the possible.
Quat main army is still in their Capital. Let's see what they do.

Not a great situation.
But it's a personal challenge now, so don't wory i will do my best.

I chatted with 2m. yesterday night. He told me that we could have won any peaceful condition it we kept the ETTT. I did not asked if they would have just watched us win in that case. I doubt.
He said that we broken the NAP withdrawing from the ETT and i answered that we were just asking a non-brokering ETT and something in exchange. I told him that probably the last tech they gave to the ETT was Gunpowder.

After an initial deny, he admitted that the way they cancelled the NAP is not exactly honorable.

Sure many defections on this team have not helped. And many stupid people thinking to keep the ETTT indefinitely less. I asked to break it when we were on the path to Rifling. Doing so the game should have had another face. Harder, maybe, but not as it is now for us.

 

[Trystero]

This was my first multiplayer game. I think the real problem is that tech trading is really broken in multiplayer. It naturally leads to the types of alliances we had in this game. The game would have been much more interesting if tech trading were prohibited.

The other problem was that we attacked Quatronia before we were fully prepared for all the consequences. I think I said on numerous occasions that we should be prepared for a 3-vs-1 war if we attacked Quatronia without securing an alliance first.

That said, something had to happen with the ETTT. And I agree with you BLubmuz, that I highly doubt Amazon would simply sit back and let us get a Space victory. I am ready for this game to end either with us victorious or eliminated. Thanks for handling the fighting. Do your best and let's see what happens.

Watch out for espionage (tech stealing!). And garrison as many cities as you can with machine guns.

 

[AlphaShard]

I agree next time vote tech trading off.

I think that Amazon wouldn't have started a war over space victory they would have used espionage.

I think we all wanted to beef up defenses it just didn't happen.

 

[BLubmuz]

For now CDZ is doing nothing. They (he?) keep unaltered the relations, but they refused new ones and they don't communicate. They have Creative Constr. so i think they're shooting for culture.

I think Ama too is shooting for culture. In few turns we can see their research, but i can bet on it.

Nothing to do today, let's wait tomorrow morning.

 

[AlphaShard]

Can they get Culture win this late in the game?