Turn Discussion Thread

[Lord Parkin]

Getting CS from the Oracle is incredibly unlikely in a MTDG like this one. You have to delay the build to get the prereqs in time (usually COL + Maths), and by the time you've done that someone else has probably built it ahead of you. I'd bet that whoever gets the Oracle will almost certainly get MC or COL, with MC probably being the more likely choice (since it also pretty much guarantees the Colossus for that team).

 

[T. Claudius]

Have any of the early religions fallen yet?

In regards to our tech path I think alphabet should be an early priority. Having a monopoly on alphabet will allow us to trade with everybody without letting them trade among themselves, forcing them to trade with us early unless they want to be left out in the initial trading.

Currency I also think would be a valuable tech because of the boosted intercontinental trade routes, one of the reasons the GLH was disabled in this game.

We should probably try to negotiate trades with other teams before we come up with a long term tech path, though.

 

[Lord Parkin]

No religions have been founded yet, as of turn 24 (3040 BC).

We'll have to double check via testing whether trade routes will be able to be formed with other nations due to the line of ocean that's likely separating everyone's islands. Either way, CS will certainly prove much more powerful than Currency.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Turn 24 - 3040 BC

Moved the new Work Boat to the Fish. Next turn we need to build the Fishing Boat and work BOTH FISH (to allow growth to size 3 and 4 quicker, and in time for building the Settler).

Spoiler :

 

[Trystero]

Also, no copper...

Well, that would have been asking a lot.

 

[BLubmuz]

Good research gives us a possibility to set up the oracle to grab an expensive tech. Metal Casting and CoL are what I normally get, I've heard of CS as a possibility. I doubt anyone else has marble, so I wouldn't consider that a huge detriment.

Of course, our strategy seems to be tending more towards early expansion. If an oracle build would slow down an important settler, or something it wouldn't be as worth it. We'll have to look at this again when we get closer to that point.

The Oracle can be chopped and our Capital has enough production to afford it. With a start like this a CS sling would surely be in order if we play against AIs. But we're playing against other humans and they're not stupid (i don't know them, but i guess ).
Usually the main constraint for a CS sling is research, not production, marble or not.

MC can be great, even if the Colossus is not so great for a financial Civ like us.
Actually i don't find it so great at all, i build it if i have nothing better to do.

But having a free tech if we do not penalize our expansion (or not too much) can be a great advantage.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Also, no copper...

Well, that would have been asking a lot.

Ah yeah, I forgot about that. A shame, but never mind.

But having a free tech if we do not penalize our expansion (or not too much) can be a great advantage.

Sure, no real disagreement there. I guess we can evaluate things closer to the time and decide if we want to go with an Oracle build or not.

 

[Trystero]

And also (again), our border should pop next turn, correct? That will reveal at least one more tile of the adjacent landmass. And allow exploring WBs to reach it.

 

[AlphaShard]

Well I am rather dissappointed at the no copper so I wonder if we have an metal on island at all? I think AH just got more appealing to me.

 

[Irgy]

Should we have a vote on the AH issue? I think we now know everything we need to to make the decision, but people still have different opinions.

For me, no copper means I vote for AH next. I don't think we can afford to wait to get it in trade, we could be missing out on BFC horses, or we could settle badly on the mainland. Plus chariots are vastly superior to warriors for exploring, and we don't have the option of axemen or archers.

 

[azzaman333]

No copper = definitely go for AH.

pottery & ah > writing > sailing > monarchy is looking like a very good plan to me. Even though we do have quite a few forests, the bonus from Maths isn't worth the time taken to research it, especially if Buddhism or Hinduism isn't founded by the time we finish sailing.

EDIT:
I was going to write a long reply to LP's post on the previous page but I knocked out my power cable while writing it so I can't be bothered writing it again.

 

[pindicator]

My bets on our 2 metal mountains: coal & aluminum

 

[Irgy]

I really don't expect to get Buddhism or Hinduism. I expect someone, probably the Ghandi team, will go for the Oracle as soon as they have their worker techs, and they'll pick up one of those on the way in probably the next 10 turns or so. I think the other will go a little later, but sooner than we're likely to get it with all the things we need to research first.

We could try for Judaism on the way through, but that means getting masonry as well which we have no use for currently.

While I'd prefer not to wait to trade animal handling, Monarchy is such a detour that I think it will be worth waiting to pick up as many of the pre-requisites as possible in trade. On the other hand, if we take something like the following line after Sailing:

Mathematics->Alphabet->Currency->Code of Laws->Civil Service

Then I think we'll be getting techs that other teams haven't got to yet (as opposed to Monarchy where they'll have a head start, at least by Mysticism that they'll have for those big silly rocks that we don't need), while at the same time picking up a whole lot of the best economy techs along the way.

 

[azzaman333]

Monarchy is more important than Maths, Alpha, Currency, CoL or Civil Service because of the nature of the map. We'll have to pay a lot more for our new cities once we move off the island, so generating as much as possible from the homeland is very important. That means we need to grow to our potential.

I've never advocated Monarchy for the chance of getting Buddhism or Hinduism. It's always been with the goal of getting Monarchy, and by extension Hereditary Rule. It's a major part of the reason to ignore Hunting.

 

[Irgy]

The cost of cities off the homeland makes CoL more important as well, while currency greatly increases the benefits of cities off the homeland (assuming we can get the intercontinental trade routes through our culture borders anyway, which someone still needs to check).

That said, I agree with everything you say there.

HR also has another benefit that when we revolt to HR we can also (finally) revolt to slavery, something which personally I expect we'll regret not having done sooner. The longer we delay HR the longer we delay slavery by extension.

Maybe we should suspend this discussion until after Sailing, by which point we may well have met at least one other civ and can take the prospect of possibility of trading for religeous techs a little more seriously.

 

[azzaman333]

The cost of cities off the homeland makes CoL more important as well,

The cities need to grow before they can efficiently build a Courthouse though, meaning we still need more to fund their existence while they grow.

while currency greatly increases the benefits of cities off the homeland (assuming we can get the intercontinental trade routes through our culture borders anyway, which someone still needs to check).

We will get trade routes through our cultural borders. Still, currency is only +2 per city. Important, but not as important as HR.

HR also has another benefit that when we revolt to HR we can also (finally) revolt to slavery, something which personally I expect we'll regret not having done sooner. The longer we delay HR the longer we delay slavery by extension.

We will almost certainly need Slavery before we tech Monarchy though.

Maybe we should suspend this discussion until after Sailing, by which point we may well have met at least one other civ and can take the prospect of possibility of trading for religeous techs a little more seriously.

Probably a wise idea.

 

[AlphaShard]

Are we to wait to trade for Hunting and Archery? I understand ignoring them for now I just worry that it might be an invintation for invansion later.

As for religons have seen the English Ai twice getting Buddism.

 

[azzaman333]

Are we to wait to trade for Hunting and Archery? I understand ignoring them for now I just worry that it might be an invintation for invansion later.

As for religons have seen the English Ai twice getting Buddism.

We don't need Hunting or Archery if we have Horses, Iron or Copper (which we might find on a nearby landmass).

At least, until we find Furs or Ivory, and need the Camps. This will wreck our plan to use Warriors for MP, instead Archers will be cheapest.

 

[AlphaShard]

Axemen and swordsmen don't make for great defenders and horse units are even worse as they don't get defensive bonuses.

 

[azzaman333]

Archers are crap.