Turn Discussion

[galdarian]

To be honest I think it's worth calling their bluff. Personally I reckon the reason they've sent the message is because their city is currently unguarded.

I digress though. We would be better to save the upgraded warrior as he is currently our best unit. If nothing else we need to keep him to ensure we can get a HE. That's worth more to us in the long run.

 

[Earthling]

I don't think we're really at a loss regarding HE, we'll get it easily after our first war (getting it against barbs may not be feasible now though, that is unfortunate).

I'm ok turning back if you all like that better though. We'll be ready for our eventual war with Mavericks anyway.

We should note that CDZ does have an axe, they must've hooked up a metal on their home continent. Anyway we probably want to just make sure we have reasonable defenses everywhere on that peninsula, as our culture continues to expand we'd see anything coming at us though.

We can also keep looking at their cities/checking what buildings they are getting, easy to spot some like Monuments of course.

Regarding other things being built - if we have confirmation on the caravel situation, that makes more triremes rather less urgent. Quatron could probably do rather well with a worker pretty soon then, we need another one on the home island here, well we really need more everywhere.

Resonance and Asymptote seem good and our new Pulsar city ought to be allright - we can upgrade to maces in due time too when we need, but I don't expect conflict with CDZ yet either.

 

[cav scout]

Our half of the timer was almost up so I went SE with our warrior. This was away from their city so we will see if they break the NAP.

 

[Earthling]

Ah, thanks for the new turn report, I happen to still be around so some thoughts:

-Unfortunate Buddhism spread to CDZ the way it did, that makes that city pretty safe on culture (we'll be even, just not ahead on that side). However we'll have the shrine soon and hope it autospreads to more cities, especially our own.

-We should look and see if someone just came out of Anarchy - Sirius, I'm guessing. They have a massive GNP, again I think they have library + Academy in their capital, but still it's impressive (note that we are second though, better than the rest of the pack). On other demographic measures we are doing pretty well, I wonder if it's MERLOT who's still managing to have a high pop though.

-Quatron is moving along mighty fast, we ought to be entirely sure of what we're doing. There does not seem to be a pressing need for a trireme; I would like a worker and more infrastructure coming up soon though. I think the plan was to whip the forge right now but that seems perhaps counterproductive if we're not rushing the trireme again. If we keep the forge we'll soon hit an impressive sustainable 15 hammers/turn, and we could get a lighthouse/barracks or whatever down the road.

So I haven't worked through the best course, is what I'm saying, but I could simply not worry about the trireme - we could get it eventually but just no hurry, and get a worker however works - finish the forge and 2-pop whip a worker for instance would give some crazy production overflow and be good to go. Slow-building without any whipping strikes me as unintuitive right now but we could be at size 7 that way rather soon if that means anything to anyone, maybe if somebody had any new ideas to work on a wonder or something (putting nearly 20 hammers/turn into a wonder and then chopping as it we finish it off, could work, I haven't thought through what if anything we'd want though, maybe HG, just brainstorming here)

-The worker by Continuum - guessing he goes to the wheat next? Farm + road is ok by me, then that's set up by Singularity, and then he can go to the iron (joining another worker from Quatron if that works out, I'd think).

 

[cav scout]

Passing up on the forge whip doesn't make much sense right now. We will whip away 2 pop that are working unimproved tiles and get a massive overflow. Unhappiness has also worn off so it is time to whip again.

EDIT:

I just checked the game and I did the overflow math incorrectly I thought we would be right on the edge of a two pop whip this turn and get huge overflow. Instead I overshot it by 2 hammers so now its only a 1 pop whip.

Doing a 1 pop whip doesn't make much sense- it yields little overflow and doesn't harness the power of multi-pop whipping. So its probably best to just finish the forge normally in 3 turns with the trireme finished 3 turn after that. Then we can get started on a worker at pop 7.

ALSO:

The Mavs did not DoW based on our warrior move. They did found another city though (gets 2 clams and 2 ivory) And they have 2 triremes headed our way.

They can reach our resonance clams in 7 turns (including this one). We will be able to meet them with 1 caravel (defends at 3.3 vs. 2 against triremes) in case they decide to break the NAP.

 

[Earthling]

I'm thinking the answer is that we do a 2pop whip on something after the forge finishes (so we'll also get a little more bonus with the forge). Maybe consider forge => worker (whipped for 2, after one turn the worker should be around 20/60 and then a 2 pop whip has lotsa overflow then) => trireme + whatever else?

But growing to pop7 is all right by me, just if we needed anything quicker we still have a solid whipping option - we'd regrow to size 5 very soon, then size 6 not too long thereafter and not working unimproved tiles quite so much. What is good about size 7 is if we could make at least 12 base hammers, that divides perfectly even for hammer bonuses - so forge or forge + OR on a building gives us an extra 3/6 hammers.

I wouldn't worry about the triremes - one caravel should be all right as a deterrant and we could have another one by the time anything really worrisome happens.

What's the espionage status by the way? Anyone check recently if we can see any more demographics (or for that matter, if CDZ put more points on us, can we still see CDZ's?)

By the way, do we have two workboats at Asymptote (one for clams, one for whales) or has one wondered off/never was there? I was thinking there would be two with the one we bought from Sirius, if not I'd prioritize the clams, don't really need whales yet but it'll be nice when get them.

 

[cav scout]

We should be able to see the Mav's graphs next turn. We can still see CDZ's, they are kicking our butts in the hammer output category.

Asymptote pops borders next turn and we have 2 boats ready to hook up both the clams and the whale right away.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

The Maverick news is great, actually. We should be able to get two cities on that peninsula once we build a few maces (if we don't have to raze them).

I suggest moving the trireme from Quatron to meet up with the other one so we have two caravels to meet them with- we'll build another one there anyways.

 

[galdarian]

On a hammer for hammer comparison (i.e. 3x Maces is roughly 2x settlers), shouldn't we just build the army to take the cities they have on the Mav pennisular and follow up later with the back fill?

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

Yeah, that's what I meant- they've built the settlers for us. Hopefully we won't be forced to raze them.

 

[Earthling]

Yeah, we'll just take those cities eventually, the only one we might probably settle in the short term is the close by, double clams/floodplain city (axiom or something iirc). But mostly we're just worried about settling elsewhere, military efforts against mavs will come in due time.

 

[cav scout]

So where do we want to settle next? Need to know for this turn to move the new settler.

 

[Bowsling]

The poll placed the retaliation spot ahead of the others.

 

[cav scout]

The poll was to choose the next two city locations. So it isn't helpful in determining the next location.

 

[Earthling]

Ok, well I think it's pretty self-evident that we'd not be founding Singularity next if we had any overseas option first. So the settler can head to the galley, I think the Spamville spot might have priority if there's enough agreement but willing to have more discussion.

If the galley still needs to move, or we have just a turn to decide, maybe a bit of a toss-up, but again we just need to be sure if we want the Spamville or northern spot first. I would think the galley has to go partway out into the sea/towards Resonance either way though.

Just to be clear I personally like the Spamville spot, and would probably do Singularity next if that works out with no complications, but I do encourage anyone who missed the poll, for instance, to add their thoughts.

In other words - we didn't vote for both Singularity AND another city on the home island or Indian side. So settler goes overseas first, makes more sense as those spots are the time-sensitive ones.

 

[Bowsling]

The poll was to choose the next two city locations. So it isn't helpful in determining the next location.

Yes, but the votes were:

North on CDZ peninsula: 4
Near Spamville (retaliation spot): 5
Singularity: 4
Horizon: 0

 

[cav scout]

Well one of the 5 votes for "near spamville" is mine and I have always been in favor of that location second after the northern spot.

The votes in that poll mean absolutely nothing regarding the location for our next city. Even if that poll had clearly determined our next two location we would still need another poll to select which one we found first.

Anyways, we are running out of time. With my arguments for the northern spot first in mind, can someone articulate why the spamville spot first it better?

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

Spamville not only puts pressure on a CDZ city from three sides (like the northern spot), but actually steals a resource from Spamville, making it quite useless in terms of city growth. Spamville was the first city they built there, which indicates that they'd likely be more concerned over us building a city there then over us boxing in ereh rO (but still leaving it a viable city). My preferred option is to trade this settler for ereh rO- and this is the best way to get them to listen IMO. So, if we would prefer to keep the city, that kind of invalidates my arguments (though we still get to screw over Spamville). Near Spamville also has better production.

If CDZ doesn't go for the trade, I would like to go north next, otherwise, we can leave the peninsula alone for a while and build Singularity.

 

[Earthling]

Anyways, we are running out of time. With my arguments for the northern spot first in mind, can someone articulate why the spamville spot first it better?

Well, it's more like I don't like founding the northern spot at all right now is why - we don't have enough workers to clear jungle, incense isn't really worth it, and we won't have much food available until we get workboats + culture to steal from Cosmos up there. Eventually, sure, cities can go up there but I don't think it's a good investment right now.

Spamville-side on the other hand can immediately share bananas, farms + mines with Resonance, is under no military threat from India or Maya or something, no jungle, and will steal from CDZ's Spamville by virtue of culture in just after the 10 turns for a border pop. I also think it would give them more incentive to consider a trade in the end if that option is still on the table.

I could see if we really wanted to do the northern spot or another peninsular spot after that but I was more in favor of Singularity next. I am sorry in the general sense our poll probably didn't make things very clear or help very much, we could have discussed this a bit more in advance too I agree.

 

[cav scout]

My counter-argument would be that CDZ is unlikely to trade a city in the great cosmos location for a crap one that competes with spamville and resonance... unless the great city is boxed off and isolated first.

If we can make ereh rO seem vulnerable by surronding it with our culture they are much more likely to give it up. But if we put the cart before the horse and found the spoiler city near spamville first we won't get that leverage. Instead CDZ will just be pissed about it and redouble their efforts to plant a sister city north of ereh rO to lock in the incense, clams and coastline.

At that point they will have a foothold that can only be dug out by force. So the race is truly for the northern spot next. Not for the spamville location that we can found or threaten at our leisure.

The northern spot isn't bad- 2 clams, 2 incense, 2 grasshill mines and tons of cottage land. Our galley has the settler loaded and can get him their in just a couple turns. And our jungle warrior is right there to move across the channel and garrison.

We will have another settler in 5 turns that go towards spamville. So lets lock in our nothern coastline first and then start the diplo efforts with CDZ about demarcation of land.
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Comments from everyone encouraged since we are running out of time.