Turn speed times in Civ5

[Ariminio]

The only thing that would get me interested in buying a new Civ are fast turn times, that is the only thing that annoys me in Civ4. I want to play all available maps and settings without waiting long between turns, anything above 10 or even 5 seconds is a nuisance with a top of the line computer.
Anyone got an idea yet if they improve that in civ5? Maybe utilizing 4 CPU cores helps, do they plan to do that?

 

[CTH]

I think that they are very aware of the problems and will prob try to make it more efficient. One improvement is the lower number of units you will have. It should speed up things. I think (but I am not sure ) that I heard that there will be a need of fewer workers to.

 

[Disgustipated]

lower units will help, but if there are zones of control, and more processing time for the "smarter" ai, that could offset it. I do hope they make the ai smarter. With fewer units, it needs to use them in a much better way.

Personally I'd rather wait 10 seconds and have a smarter ai, rather than wait 2 seconds for a dumb ai. I've never timed my 18 civ huge earth map times, but I think it gets to around 20 seconds in the modern age. That would be about my limit I think. I wouldn't want any higher than that.

 

[civ_king]

lower units will help, but if there are zones of control, and more processing time for the "smarter" ai, that could offset it. I do hope they make the ai smarter. With fewer units, it needs to use them in a much better way.

Personally I'd rather wait 10 seconds and have a smarter ai, rather than wait 2 seconds for a dumb ai. I've never timed my 18 civ huge earth map times, but I think it gets to around 20 seconds in the modern age. That would be about my limit I think. I wouldn't want any higher than that.

ever tried GEM? longer times in Medieval Era than 20 seconds

 

[The_J]

o_O i hope you're not serious.
When i play FfH2 with 10 AIs on a standard map, the turns in the late game need 5 minutes.

 

[Ariminio]

I've never timed my 18 civ huge earth map times, but I think it gets to around 20 seconds in the modern age. That would be about my limit I think. I wouldn't want any higher than that.

20 seconds would be way faster than what I get on 18 civ huge modern. Are you sure it is that fast, or is that a rough figure from memory which might also be 60 secs? If 20s, what are your cpu,ram,video?

 

[civ_king]

I said LONGER TIMES, best processor in a dedicated Civ IV computer is a Pentium D 805, it's dual core and can be stably be overclocked to 4.1GHz, sadly I have a Pentium 4 (monocore) at 3.2GHz, but it has a nice card, RAM is 4GB but it is a 32-bit OS

 

[Earthling]

I assume everyone is of course referring to all options regarding showing anything the AI does ticked off, but yeah sounds reasonable. I haven't got the fastest computer but if I do so things speed up reasonably (<1 minute per turn, assuming no AI jumps in for diplo. Stupid diplo screen loading always 20+ seconds alone)

 

[Shurdus]

I assume everyone is of course referring to all options regarding showing anything the AI does ticked off, but yeah sounds reasonable. I haven't got the fastest computer but if I do so things speed up reasonably (<1 minute per turn, assuming no AI jumps in for diplo. Stupid diplo screen loading always 20+ seconds alone)

Wow, that would drive me insane! How much RAM do you have?

On standard maps I get maybe 5 second turns in the modern era, and that is with virus scanners etc running in the background.

 

[civ_king]

Wow, that would drive me insane! How much RAM do you have?

On standard maps I get maybe 5 second turns in the modern era, and that is with virus scanners etc running in the background.

mods, I play on a map over 225% bigger than huge with 31 civs

 

[Willem]

I want to play all available maps and settings without waiting long between turns, anything above 10 or even 5 seconds is a nuisance with a top of the line computer.

The only way you're going to eliminate that lag time is if it stops being a turn based game. Seriously, can you get all your moves and decisions made in 10 seconds? Why should several civs be able to get them done by then? Considering that all the AI civs are doing their various things during that time, 10 seconds is very short. If you're not willing to put up with the delay, simply go play an RTS. It's always going to be there in a turn based game.

 

[civ_king]

The only thing that would get me interested in buying a new Civ are fast turn times, that is the only thing that annoys me in Civ4. I want to play all available maps and settings without waiting long between turns, anything above 10 or even 5 seconds is a nuisance with a top of the line computer.
Anyone got an idea yet if they improve that in civ5? Maybe utilizing 4 CPU cores helps, do they plan to do that?

If you want a really good computer, a quad HEX core 3GHz with 12GB RAM, a Radeon 5870 and a SSD boot drive, that's a reasonably top of the line rig

$159.99 64GB SSD (for OS and Civ V)
$1,399.98 Core i7-980X Extreme (hex core) with ASUS MoBo
$194.99 CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB)
$170.00 Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64
$499.99 Radeon HD 5870
$2424.95 Total
Unfortunately I don't know a good PSU, but everything else is good to go, PS I don't know what kind of case you like so pick one yourself

Spoiler :

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http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&q=ATI+Radeon&#8482;+HD+5870&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&cid=1775069267707241717&sa=title#p

 

[Ariminio]

The only way you're going to eliminate that lag time is if it stops being a turn based game. Seriously, can you get all your moves and decisions made in 10 seconds? Why should several civs be able to get them done by then? Considering that all the AI civs are doing their various things during that time, 10 seconds is very short. If you're not willing to put up with the delay, simply go play an RTS. It's always going to be there in a turn based game.

I' not willing, do you have any more info on RTS? How long do turns take there, below 5 secs? Would it be like Alpha Centauri,Heroes of Might and Magic, Master of Orion or Colonization?


Civ_king, I'm gonna get something like that, but I think I'll go with a 3GHZ Phenom for 200$ instead of 1400$(wtf).

 

[Willem]

How long do turns take there, below 5 secs?

There are no turns in "Real Time" Strategies.

Would it be like Alpha Centauri,Heroes of Might and Magic, Master of Orion or Colonization?

No, all of those are turn based. An example of an RTS is Rise of Nations.

 

[frekk]

It's always going to be there in a turn based game.

Always going to be there in a new turn-based game. I'm pretty sure that even on a massive map with tons of units on the board, a turn in civ2 will take less than a second on modern machines. Many old games will run superfast on modern machines, even with insane unit and tile numbers. Probably because the AI is primitive and there are less features so much less calculations to do.

 

[civ_king]

I' not willing, do you have any more info on RTS? How long do turns take there, below 5 secs? Would it be like Alpha Centauri,Heroes of Might and Magic, Master of Orion or Colonization?


Civ_king, I'm gonna get something like that, but I think I'll go with a 3GHZ Phenom for 200$ instead of 1400$(wtf).

Sorry, I linked a HEX CORE not a quad silly me, also that includes the cost of the motherboard

 

[Hail]

[...] Considering that all the AI civs are doing their various things during that time, 10 seconds is very short. [...] It's always going to be there in a turn based game.

why can't the ai think between turns?

I' not willing, do you have any more info on RTS? How long do turns take there, below 5 secs? Would it be like Alpha Centauri,Heroes of Might and Magic, Master of Orion or Colonization?

on my p4 3ghz/2gb ddr1/7600gt rig:

HoMM3.5: without "watch enemy moves", turns take no more than 30 seconds (need to account for battles) per ai even after a half a year into the game. the limit of 8 heroes per side does speed up things

Colonization: running in DosBox with default settings, i would say about 1 - 3 seconds per side (European nations + tribes). as i recall, that would be (3 + 5 tribes?)* (1...3) = 8 - 24 seconds per turn.

Civ_king, I'm gonna get something like that, but I think I'll go with a 3GHZ Phenom for 200$ instead of 1400$(wtf).

i plan to buy a i5 2.66ghz/2gb ddr3/1gb 9800gt rig in May for about $600

I think that they are very aware of the problems and will prob try to make it more efficient. One improvement is the lower number of units you will have. It should speed up things. I think (but I am not sure ) that I heard that there will be a need of fewer workers to.

the highlighting is mine. it's a common belief that the number of units is responsible for bogging down civ4 games in modern/industrial times(*) and that 1u/t is going to decrease units' MM in civ5(**) and consequently speed up the game during modern times(***).

well

(*): it is false for civ4: remind me to dig up the discussion and post it in my sig
(**): debatable: i find it a lot more convenient to move one SoD, than to move units one by one
(***) probably games in the modern age will go faster, but definitely not because there are less units

and about 18 civ huge map modern times: the turn times can very well be around 20 seconds, since most civs by that time are either conquered or vassalaged. i would guess that out of 18 civs, only 5 or so are active. so multiply 20 seconds by 2-3 to get a rough estimate of what would the turn times be if all 18 civs where active.

 

[Willem]

why can't the ai think between turns?

Then it wouldn't be "turn" based now would it?

 

[Disgustipated]

20 seconds would be way faster than what I get on 18 civ huge modern. Are you sure it is that fast, or is that a rough figure from memory which might also be 60 secs? If 20s, what are your cpu,ram,video?

yeah I never timed it. It's definately very rough. I'm not including city maintenance popups during my phase of course.

I have 8 gigs of RAM, AMD Phenon II X4 945 processor 3 gig, 64 bit windows 7, geoforce GTS 250 vid card.

I'm playing a pretty serious huge map (Earth 18 civ BTS map again- I like that map) game right now, on a higher difficulty level (which means the ai will build more units), so we'll see what happens. no tech trading, and only conquest victory allowed. But i'm in modern age right now, and turns still seem less than 20 seconds.

edit: I do have show enemy moves on, most other moves are turned off. I can care less about friendly ai moves.

re-edit: I'm currently in peacetime. During war turns of course are going to be longer with show enemy moves on.

 

[Kyarao]

it's a common belief that the number of units is responsible for bogging down civ4 games in modern/industrial times(*) and that 1u/t is going to decrease units' MM in civ5(**) and consequently speed up the game during modern times(***).

well

(*): it is false for civ4: remind me to dig up the discussion and post it in my sig
(**): debatable: i find it a lot more convenient to move one SoD, than to move units one by one
(***) probably games in the modern age will go faster, but definitely not because there are less units

*Play on a huge map with 24 civs, give each civ 100 units. time how long a turn takes. Now delete the units and time how long a turn takes. There should be a significant difference (There has been every time I test this)

**You may find it convenient to move a SoD, but the programming behind the AI is effectively moving each unit in the SoD individually. They are also deciding what to do with the units fortified in cities. Usually, the AI will move each unit in a SoD to the same tile, and will leave their fortified units as they are, but that doesn't mean the AI isn't wasting a lot of CPU cycles calculating what to do.
Civ 5 plans to reduce the number of CPU cycles taken by the AI by reducing the number of units the AI will control, as well as not allowing unit stacks to fortify cities.

*** As I described above, the AI thinks much differently to humans. Having less units will take less CPU cycles and thus result in shorter turn times.

I've also noticed that the AI is extremely slow at deciding what to build in a city. To see this in action, give yourself 10 cities and turn production automation on for all of them. The AI will bog down at the beginning of any turns where one of your cities has to build something new. I have found this to be even slower by having cities with high population