U.S. threatens Sudan with sanctions

[MarineCorps]

@MC
Hey you're right, good job

I should have bet money on that now that I think back on it.

 

[HamaticBabylon]

Please explain to me why the US doesn't want Sudan to make billions? And how would Sudan become a threat in the Future

Same reason why the Americans and other western counties stole Gold and diamonds from west Africa, did they ask the people if they could trade Gold with them.NO! they just took the west African's wealth and put it in a safe house in America a.k.a Fort nocks.You think if Africa were industrious then with all that wealth we would lead the world in Scientific, political and commercial affairs.

Now, now...Africa must not be industrious for the wealth on that continent is unimaginable!

 

[Duddha]

He thinks that the US is funding the rebels(a departer from his earlier statement that nothing was wrong there) to prevent Sudan from becoming a Future power.

Yeah, the part about "super-state" in my question adressed that. It seems he is working from a supremacist viewpoint, and a bizzar one from my experience.
Moderator Action: All of you who are trolling Ham, you can stop it NOW.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[MarineCorps]

Same reason why the Americans and other western counties stole Gold and diamonds from west Africa, did they ask the people if they could trade Gold with them.NO! they just took the west African's wealth and put it in a safe house in America a.k.a Fort Knox.

America? America never had any colonies in Africa. Some other coutries took Gold and stuff from Afirca but not America.

Who was that who edited Duddha's post? Sounds like ainwood.

 

[Duddha]

Same reason why the Americans and other western counties stole Gold and diamonds from west Africa, did they ask the people if they could trade Gold with them.NO! they just took the west African's wealth and put it in a safe house in America a.k.a Fort nocks.You think if Africa were industrious then with all that wealth we would lead the world in Scientific, political and commercial affairs.

Now, now...Africa must not be industrious for the wealth on that continent is unimaginable!

Ok, say you are right that the genocide in Sudan is caused by Western Imperialism, is it still right to let those people die? Shouldn't someone stop it?

 

[Amenhotep7]

@Hamatic Babylon

By your logic, the Africans should have been the pinnacle of civilization in the Classical Era. Nay, Tribalism is not the pinnacle of human civilization. Though I admire African culture, it was not as advanced as you think. But hey, I'm probably a "brainwashed" westerner who knows nothing.

America is not as evil as you conspiracy theorists think. Trust me, I live in the US. It's not as bad as many make it out to be.

We are not imperialist, because we did not want to go to war for Conquest. Yes, there was the acquisition of the Indians, but this was an abominable spot on our nation's history. No nation can claim absolute innocence.

We go to war to protect the ideals of freedom. No more, no less. We do not go for plunder, we do not go for land, we do not go for no reason.

I have entire history books full of evidence to back MY claims. And what do you have? Paranoid delusions. You have provided no evidence to ANY of your outlandish claims, and I as an American citizen find this blind Anti-Americanism very upsetting and disturbing.

Many of your posts as just shy of trolling, if not trolling in of themselves. Please, stop the trolling, begin debating in a civilized manner. Or if you are not capable of doing so, do not debate at all, as you do nothing but upset people.

You can not ignore the problems in Africa. Or if you do not ignore them, you can not pin them on the west. Why did we pull out of Africa? (Not that America had African colonies) We didn't have to. But we saw the mistake of imperialism, and corrected it. America even created the FIRST free African republic, Liberia. Like it or not, Africa's problems have African origin.

Amenhotep7

 

[Hundegesicht]

Correct. IIRC, the only time America ever took land in Africa was to establish Liberia, which was made a free state and a refuge for freed slaves.

MC: And I don't really see how politely asking for reasonable evidence to back up a outragous claim can be considered trolling, but I'll refrain from posting in this thread from now on if only to retain my position as a member here. There's no real way to carry on meaningful debate if the moderators are biased in favour of one side and won't allow any oposition.

(not directed at you, Amenhotep! Didn't see your post)

Moderator Action: Warned for discussing Moderator actions
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[MarineCorps]

Correct. IIRC, the only time America ever took land in Africa was to establish Liberia, which was made a free state and a refuge for freed slaves.

And I don't really see how politely asking for reasonable evidence to back up a outragous claim can be considered trolling, but I'll refrain from posting in this thread from now on if only to retain my position as a member here. There's no real way to carry on meaningful debate if the moderators are biased in favour of one side and won't allow any oposition.

Ainwood(?) was not refering to your request for info. He was more refering to the other stuff that was going on.

EDIT: What are you directing that at me for

 

[Amenhotep7]

I figured that, Hundegesicht.

 

[Sarevok]

I just read this htread and I have seen some of the most... Interesting conspiracy theories I have ever seen

Besides that, this is a very good step in the right direction

 

[amadeus]

I thought we sanctioned Sudan already for their inaction on terrorism?

 

[Amenhotep7]

HamBab:

I'm surprised you're using a cartoon character made up by "evil westerners" as your avatar.

(For those who don't know, that's Zim from "Invader Zim".)

 

[amadeus]

I thought "Invader Zim" was about Robert Mugabe's land reform program. I was way off.

 

[Amenhotep7]

*ten characters bites.*

 

[HamaticBabylon]

HamBab:

I'm surprised you're using a cartoon character made up by "evil westerners" as your avatar.

I never said westerns ,nor do i hold in my heart, are evil; I have nothing against the citizens of the western world. The Fact is your governments always tell you half-hearted facts. Most of the "Evil" done in your governments is behind closed doors. Do you honestly think that your government will tell you the truth about its Policies.

I never thought my avatar was from Invader Zim....i just like the artistic expression. No harm in that right?

 

[Duddha]

The Sudanese government agrees would agree.
"Sudanese President Umar al-Bashir has said the international community is using Darfur to target his government and Islam, according to Al-Anbaa newspaper."
link http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8E65240F-B5CE-495A-911F-3AC7FCFDD68C.htm

Although, I have a feeling the govt. of Sudan might have more involvement with what goes on in its borders than and foriegn nation.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Such as providing the Janjaweed with aerial cover.

Anyway, I do not quite get whether HamBab is accusing the Americans of supporting the Janjaweed, or the rebels. Or both?

Yeah, and the fact that America wants the war in the South to carry on squares very well with their arm-twisting of Khartoum to get them accept a peace treaty with the SPLA/SPLM.

 

[E-Raser]

First of all, I do not say Americans are evil nor America itself. But concerning it's gov. I have a certain suspicion.
One fact I read not too long ago is the following: Americans are about 5% of the worlds population but they need 20% of the worlds energy ressources. This shows how much they depend on oil, and more important: CHEAP oil. Imagine a price like in Germany about $1,20 a litre (almost $5 the gallon). Any president facing Americans with such a price, would be never reelected, agree?
I do completely agree that genocide must be stopped. But I am not convinced that this is the only and true reason for aiming Sudan.
Why for example did noone engage in Ruanda as an equal mansloughter took place? And if Ruanda would be rich with oil, what than? Just ONE example.
And how about a gov claiming to protect the freedom worldwide but making laws like "homeland protection act" (is it the right name?) which cuts down the freedom of the single person much too far. Or this prison Guatanamo on Cuba, is this not a bit too harsh for a democratic country? Just questions, answer youself.
Of course one might say they are all terrorists. For some of them it is true even, but nevertheless, in my understanding of justice everyone has to be accepted as innocent as long as his guilt is PROVEN! And I honstely doubt they are all PROVEN terrorists. Have they faced a process at court all? Are they allowed to have lawyers?
Concerning Iraq: Is it true or not that America (as an institution not as the people) has supported Saddam to gain the power, in order to have a counterforce against the Ayatollahs from Iran? First he was installed and as not of any use cut off again.
Do you really think that the Bush administration is telling the complete truth towards the people? No gov does in fact.
I just deny to eat everything served to me. I have my own thoughts and I am not sure that violance and force it a appropriate mean to put an end to violance. May be for the first moment but afterwards? Look at Iraq, is it peaceful there? Or Afghanistan?
How does it sound, to force people to freedom?
It is easy and fast done to send soldiers, which color their helmet may have. But to install peace is a much harder task. And furthermore it is my believe that sending forces can only be the very last possibility if everything else has failed, AFTER everything else has failed.
And another objection: who sends soldiers must also be aware to recieve some of them back home in bodysacks. So it should be very carefully figured out if it is really worth it. And to be able one must know all the facts. But I guess the normal people are not recieving the whole story, only what they should know.
For example: is it true or not that the gov did know about the japanese attack on Pearl Harbour in advance? And that they sacrificed thousands of soldiers in order to make the people agree to join into WWII.?
So how well informed in fact are WE today?
However, I guess the real intentions to engage Sudan are more economical and political than humanitary.
May be even religious?
It is not everything just black or white, even my PC (and he is a bit dumb) knows at least 256 shades of grey, shouldn't we?
I know some Americans will consider this post offensive. But to them I answer, right! It shall even. Patriotism is a good thing and it is ok to be proud of ones country. But besides patriotism people should not forget to search for the truth and to be aware that usually govs rule the people and that their means are not clean and nice always.
And media are well used to manipulate people.
This is unfortunatley true for every country.
Just don't stop to think for yourself.

 

[Amenhotep7]

Okay, Ham, fair enough. You just seem to come off that way. But what about my previous post? The very long-winded one?

 

[CurtSibling]

America? America never had any colonies in Africa. Some other coutries took Gold and stuff from Afirca but not America.

Who was that who edited Duddha's post? Sounds like ainwood.

Wrong, Marine.

America is very interested in the diamond trade in Africa.