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UEFA Cup 2004-05

Discussion in 'Sports Talk' started by Pangur Bán, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. Dell19

    Dell19 Take a break

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    Compared to the leading club football nations, Holland seem to have lacked clubs outside the big 3 that actually go far in European competitions. However this year the other teams have almost all qualified.
     
  2. phoenix_night

    phoenix_night Deity

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    Spain has the world's premier league...The Dutch league is a minor league. Bit of a silly comparison there...

    I mean, the Netherlands has what, 16 million people?
     
  3. Dell19

    Dell19 Take a break

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    It isn't clearly the top division though. Italy and England both have strong arguements and it largely depends on current champions league form as the only way of comparing performance...
     
  4. phoenix_night

    phoenix_night Deity

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    UEFA coefficients.

    The point is just that the Spanish league is a major league and the Dutch league isn't. It doesn't really matter which one you put on top...

    (I would put Spain there, though)
     
  5. naervod

    naervod My current user title

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    I'm not saying the Dutch League is better than the Spanish, but I am saying it is one of the better leagues out there, probably just out of the top 5 (after Italy, Spain, England, Germany, France), I'm just saying that I'm not as impressed as some people seem to be, but it is still a good showing from the Dutch. Also, if Spain got 7/8 through, how is the Netherlands a record? Or was the record for Dutch squads only?

    Just looked at the UEFA coefficients, the Netherlands is #6 out of 51. Not bad at all.

    And for fun, since we are on the subject, here are the top 10 countries in UEFA coefficients and how their clubs did:

    1. England (6/7)
    2. Spain (7/8)
    3. Germany (6/7)
    4. Italy (4/7)
    5. France (5/7)
    6. Netherlands (5/6)
    7. Ukraine (3/5)
    8. Belgium (0/4)
    9. Russia (1/4)
    10. Turkey (1/4)

    The lowest ranked country with a team still playing after the winter break is Switzerland, ranked #29. Basel FC is still in the UEFA Cup.
     
  6. Shabbaman

    Shabbaman rebuffing the rebels

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    If you know where I'm from you'd know why it's a big deal ;) No, it's more that the performance of the "other" dutch teams are so much better than in the past. It looks like the new group system works very good for them.
    The Netherlands might be small, but it is a football nation. The performance of our national team is pretty good compared to nations of many times our size.
     
  7. Lambert Simnel

    Lambert Simnel One across

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    :cry:

    A bad, bad year for Scottish football.
     
  8. phoenix_night

    phoenix_night Deity

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    There aren't even 5 top leagues in the world. There are the three big leagues, then Germany which is also a big league really...then France. There's not that much strength in depth. Ukraine are 7th, and Belgium 8th...those are poor leagues. Much weaker from top to bottom than the top few.

    It's ridiculous to compare Dutch teams to Spanish. The Netherlands (population wise) is less than half the size of Spain; they just don't have the resources to maintain so many top teams - or a top league. Just take a look at the average attendances in the Netherlands.

    In terms of national teams, they may be on more of a level playing field, but you shouldn't take that as a reflection of their national leagues. It isn't. The Dutch league is a small league in a small country.
     
  9. Elsaak

    Elsaak European und Réunionnais

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    1 Grazer AK - Middlesbrough FC
    5 Sporting Clube de Portugal - Feyenoord


    13 Panathinaikos FC - Sevilla FC
    4 Parma FC - VfB Stuttgart


    9 Valencia CF - FC Steaua Bucuresti
    16 FC Dynamo Kyv - Villarreal CF


    3 FC Basel 1893 - LOSC Lille Métropole
    10 AFC Ajax - AJ Auxerre


    15 Olympiacos CFP - FC Sochaux-Montbéliard
    2 SC Heerenveen - Newcastle United FC


    14 FC Shakhtar Donetsk - FC Schalke 04
    6 TSV Alemannia Aachen - AZ Alkmaar


    8 FK Partizan - FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    11 PFC CSKA Moskva - SL Benfica


    7 FK Austria Wien - Athletic Club Bilbao
    12 Fenerbahçe SK - Real Zaragoza
     
  10. MCdread

    MCdread Couldn't she get drowned?

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    I was under the impression that the portuguese league was in 6th in the ranking. At least we're gonna put 3 teams in the CL next year, which is only for the top 6 I think...
     
  11. phoenix_night

    phoenix_night Deity

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    Post 03/04 UEFA coefficients:

    1. Spain
    2. England
    3. Italy
    4. Germany
    5. France
    6. Portugal
    7. Greece
    8. Netherlands
    9. Czech Republic
    10. Turkey
     
  12. Hitro

    Hitro Feistus Raclettus

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    I think that changed last year due to Porto's successes. The Netherlands dropped down, but as the number of UEFA spots is allocated before the season this will only come into effect at the end of this one. The year after it might be reversed again, depending how well the Dutch, Greek and Portuguese teams do this year compared to five years ago.

    Sad to see that Aachen got Alkmaar as its opponent as they'd really have deserved a bigger name (ironically Stuttgart, who won their group, got Parma), but there might at least be a chance to go through.

    Even more sad that should they somehow manage to go through their next opponent would be Schalke (assuming they beat Shakhtar, of course).
     
  13. Alone

    Alone Emperor

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    HEART IS OUT AS WELL
    Again :eek: ;)

    Don't worry RS Belgrade is out long time ago. :D hmm... I think that they decided to take a break from any UEFA competition for a while :rolleyes: well GOOD they should stop ashamed themselfs :nuke:
     
  14. Shabbaman

    Shabbaman rebuffing the rebels

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    The Netherlands "dropped down" three or four seasons ago. There's a group of 3 nations on the 7th through 9th place. The gap between the number 7 (NL) and the number 6 (portugal) is 6 points. And that's aggregated for 5 years. I doubt if that gap will be closed before the perfomances of 2002 and 2003 are out of the list.
     
  15. naervod

    naervod My current user title

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    I'm not saying the Eredivisie is better than the Primera Liga. Rather the opposite. I just think that is a good Dutch feat, but not as impressive as some are making it out to be. As Shabbaman pointed out, the Netherlands may be small, but it is a football nation.

    Anyways, my picks for the Round of 32 and 16, since they have the draws for that too.

    Round of 32
    Middlesbrough over GAK
    Newcastle over Heerenveen
    Lille over Basel
    Stuttgart over Parma
    Feyenoord over Sporting
    Alkmaar over Aachen
    Athletic over Austria
    Dnipro over Partizan
    Valencia over Steaua
    Ajax over Auxerre
    Benfica over CSKA Moskva
    Zaragoza over Fenerbahçe
    Panathinaikos over Sevilla
    Schalke over Shakhtar
    Olympiacos over Sochaux
    Dynamo Kiev over Villareal

    Round of 16
    Winner Game 1 vs. Winner Game 5: Feyenoord over Middlesbrough
    Winner Game 13 vs. Winner Game 4: Stuttgart over Panathinaikos
    Winner Game 9 vs. Winner Game 16: Valencia over Dynamo Kiev
    Winner Game 3 vs. Winner Game 10: Ajax over Lille
    Winner Game 15 vs. Winner Game 2: Olympiacos over Newcastle
    Winner Game 14 vs. Winner Game 6: Alkmaar over Schalke
    Winner Game 8 vs. Winner Game 11: Benfica over Dnipro
    Winner Game 7: vs. Winner Game 12: Athletic over Zaragoza

    After seeing my predictions, the what the Dutch could do seems rather impressive, leaving Ajax, Alkmaar, and Feyenoord in the top 8 along with Stuttgart, Valencia, Olympiacos, Benfica, and Athletic. Hard to pick a winner out of those...
     
  16. Shabbaman

    Shabbaman rebuffing the rebels

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    Ajax won't beat Auxerre. I haven't seen Sporting play recently, but I have my doubts about that matchup as well. Your other predictions look solid, but I would rank Shaktar a bit higher.
     
  17. MCdread

    MCdread Couldn't she get drowned?

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    Sporting play one good match, everyone gets excited, this is it, this is the first step for a glorious season, and so on, and then they suck for the next 5 games, until the cycle begins again.
    Their coach adds a lot of comedy value as well. I think he was Mourinho's colleague in the university, and he seems to want to impersonate him. The difference is that while Mourinho has a big mouth, and a general atitutude and especially results to back it up, Peseiro talks big, but everyone can see that he's just trying to look like a master at mind games, and then looses. :lol: I tell you something, for surely I've never seen a coach putting so much pressure in his own shoulders. I think he's abandoning that failed tactic a bit now though. A pitty...
     
  18. naervod

    naervod My current user title

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    I'll admit I am a little overconfident about Ajax, maybe it's me forgetting they don't have Ibrahimovic anymore...:lol:

    I think Feyenoord-Sporting could be a close one, they are pretty even in league performance this year, but I was inclined to say Feyenoord given past UEFA Cup sucess.

    As for Shakhtar-Schalke, another close one, given similar places in the league table (Shakhtar is 1st, Schalke is 2nd, but only on goal differential to a Champion's Leaguge team). However, I feel the German league is a stronger league, and IIRC Schalke does fairly well in Europe, so I picked them.
     
  19. ZIG_Ilia

    ZIG_Ilia Chieftain

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    compare budget of the shahter and shalke...
    I dont know how its can be finished.
     
  20. naervod

    naervod My current user title

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    Can you give me definitive links to the Schalke 04 and Shakhtar budgets, because from what I've found I can't find much recent stuff, but it looks like (and would seem correct that) Schalke has a much bigger budget than Shakhtar.
     

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