UEFA Cup 2004-05

[Dell19]

Compared to the leading club football nations, Holland seem to have lacked clubs outside the big 3 that actually go far in European competitions. However this year the other teams have almost all qualified.

 

[phoenix_night]

Spain has the world's premier league...The Dutch league is a minor league. Bit of a silly comparison there...

I mean, the Netherlands has what, 16 million people?

 

[Dell19]

It isn't clearly the top division though. Italy and England both have strong arguements and it largely depends on current champions league form as the only way of comparing performance...

 

[phoenix_night]

UEFA coefficients.

The point is just that the Spanish league is a major league and the Dutch league isn't. It doesn't really matter which one you put on top...

(I would put Spain there, though)

 

[naervod]

I'm not saying the Dutch League is better than the Spanish, but I am saying it is one of the better leagues out there, probably just out of the top 5 (after Italy, Spain, England, Germany, France), I'm just saying that I'm not as impressed as some people seem to be, but it is still a good showing from the Dutch. Also, if Spain got 7/8 through, how is the Netherlands a record? Or was the record for Dutch squads only?

Just looked at the UEFA coefficients, the Netherlands is #6 out of 51. Not bad at all.

And for fun, since we are on the subject, here are the top 10 countries in UEFA coefficients and how their clubs did:

1. England (6/7)
2. Spain (7/8)
3. Germany (6/7)
4. Italy (4/7)
5. France (5/7)
6. Netherlands (5/6)
7. Ukraine (3/5)
8. Belgium (0/4)
9. Russia (1/4)
10. Turkey (1/4)

The lowest ranked country with a team still playing after the winter break is Switzerland, ranked #29. Basel FC is still in the UEFA Cup.

 

[Shabbaman]

Looks like Spain has 7 clubs playing after the break (out of 8) so I don't see what the big deal is about the Netherlands...

If you know where I'm from you'd know why it's a big deal No, it's more that the performance of the "other" dutch teams are so much better than in the past. It looks like the new group system works very good for them.
The Netherlands might be small, but it is a football nation. The performance of our national team is pretty good compared to nations of many times our size.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Yup, hearts is out as well.

A bad, bad year for Scottish football.

 

[phoenix_night]

I'm not saying the Dutch League is better than the Spanish, but I am saying it is one of the better leagues out there, probably just out of the top 5

There aren't even 5 top leagues in the world. There are the three big leagues, then Germany which is also a big league really...then France. There's not that much strength in depth. Ukraine are 7th, and Belgium 8th...those are poor leagues. Much weaker from top to bottom than the top few.

It's ridiculous to compare Dutch teams to Spanish. The Netherlands (population wise) is less than half the size of Spain; they just don't have the resources to maintain so many top teams - or a top league. Just take a look at the average attendances in the Netherlands.

In terms of national teams, they may be on more of a level playing field, but you shouldn't take that as a reflection of their national leagues. It isn't. The Dutch league is a small league in a small country.

 

[Elsaak]

1 Grazer AK - Middlesbrough FC
5 Sporting Clube de Portugal - Feyenoord


13 Panathinaikos FC - Sevilla FC
4 Parma FC - VfB Stuttgart


9 Valencia CF - FC Steaua Bucuresti
16 FC Dynamo Kyv - Villarreal CF


3 FC Basel 1893 - LOSC Lille Métropole
10 AFC Ajax - AJ Auxerre


15 Olympiacos CFP - FC Sochaux-Montbéliard
2 SC Heerenveen - Newcastle United FC


14 FC Shakhtar Donetsk - FC Schalke 04
6 TSV Alemannia Aachen - AZ Alkmaar


8 FK Partizan - FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
11 PFC CSKA Moskva - SL Benfica


7 FK Austria Wien - Athletic Club Bilbao
12 Fenerbahçe SK - Real Zaragoza

 

[MCdread]

I was under the impression that the portuguese league was in 6th in the ranking. At least we're gonna put 3 teams in the CL next year, which is only for the top 6 I think...

 

[phoenix_night]

Post 03/04 UEFA coefficients:

1. Spain
2. England
3. Italy
4. Germany
5. France
6. Portugal
7. Greece
8. Netherlands
9. Czech Republic
10. Turkey

 

[Hitro]

I was under the impression that the portuguese league was in 6th in the ranking. At least we're gonna put 3 teams in the CL next year, which is only for the top 6 I think...

I think that changed last year due to Porto's successes. The Netherlands dropped down, but as the number of UEFA spots is allocated before the season this will only come into effect at the end of this one. The year after it might be reversed again, depending how well the Dutch, Greek and Portuguese teams do this year compared to five years ago.

Sad to see that Aachen got Alkmaar as its opponent as they'd really have deserved a bigger name (ironically Stuttgart, who won their group, got Parma), but there might at least be a chance to go through.

Even more sad that should they somehow manage to go through their next opponent would be Schalke (assuming they beat Shakhtar, of course).

 

[Alone]

HEART IS OUT AS WELL

A bad, bad year for Scottish football.

Again

Don't worry RS Belgrade is out long time ago. hmm... I think that they decided to take a break from any UEFA competition for a while well GOOD they should stop ashamed themselfs

 

[Shabbaman]

I think that changed last year due to Porto's successes. The Netherlands dropped down, but as the number of UEFA spots is allocated before the season this will only come into effect at the end of this one. The year after it might be reversed again, depending how well the Dutch, Greek and Portuguese teams do this year compared to five years ago.

The Netherlands "dropped down" three or four seasons ago. There's a group of 3 nations on the 7th through 9th place. The gap between the number 7 (NL) and the number 6 (portugal) is 6 points. And that's aggregated for 5 years. I doubt if that gap will be closed before the perfomances of 2002 and 2003 are out of the list.

 

[naervod]

I'm not saying the Eredivisie is better than the Primera Liga. Rather the opposite. I just think that is a good Dutch feat, but not as impressive as some are making it out to be. As Shabbaman pointed out, the Netherlands may be small, but it is a football nation.

Anyways, my picks for the Round of 32 and 16, since they have the draws for that too.

Round of 32
Middlesbrough over GAK
Newcastle over Heerenveen
Lille over Basel
Stuttgart over Parma
Feyenoord over Sporting
Alkmaar over Aachen
Athletic over Austria
Dnipro over Partizan
Valencia over Steaua
Ajax over Auxerre
Benfica over CSKA Moskva
Zaragoza over Fenerbahçe
Panathinaikos over Sevilla
Schalke over Shakhtar
Olympiacos over Sochaux
Dynamo Kiev over Villareal

Round of 16
Winner Game 1 vs. Winner Game 5: Feyenoord over Middlesbrough
Winner Game 13 vs. Winner Game 4: Stuttgart over Panathinaikos
Winner Game 9 vs. Winner Game 16: Valencia over Dynamo Kiev
Winner Game 3 vs. Winner Game 10: Ajax over Lille
Winner Game 15 vs. Winner Game 2: Olympiacos over Newcastle
Winner Game 14 vs. Winner Game 6: Alkmaar over Schalke
Winner Game 8 vs. Winner Game 11: Benfica over Dnipro
Winner Game 7: vs. Winner Game 12: Athletic over Zaragoza

After seeing my predictions, the what the Dutch could do seems rather impressive, leaving Ajax, Alkmaar, and Feyenoord in the top 8 along with Stuttgart, Valencia, Olympiacos, Benfica, and Athletic. Hard to pick a winner out of those...

 

[Shabbaman]

Ajax won't beat Auxerre. I haven't seen Sporting play recently, but I have my doubts about that matchup as well. Your other predictions look solid, but I would rank Shaktar a bit higher.

 

[MCdread]

Sporting play one good match, everyone gets excited, this is it, this is the first step for a glorious season, and so on, and then they suck for the next 5 games, until the cycle begins again.
Their coach adds a lot of comedy value as well. I think he was Mourinho's colleague in the university, and he seems to want to impersonate him. The difference is that while Mourinho has a big mouth, and a general atitutude and especially results to back it up, Peseiro talks big, but everyone can see that he's just trying to look like a master at mind games, and then looses. I tell you something, for surely I've never seen a coach putting so much pressure in his own shoulders. I think he's abandoning that failed tactic a bit now though. A pitty...

 

[naervod]

I'll admit I am a little overconfident about Ajax, maybe it's me forgetting they don't have Ibrahimovic anymore...

I think Feyenoord-Sporting could be a close one, they are pretty even in league performance this year, but I was inclined to say Feyenoord given past UEFA Cup sucess.

As for Shakhtar-Schalke, another close one, given similar places in the league table (Shakhtar is 1st, Schalke is 2nd, but only on goal differential to a Champion's Leaguge team). However, I feel the German league is a stronger league, and IIRC Schalke does fairly well in Europe, so I picked them.

 

[ZIG_Ilia]

compare budget of the shahter and shalke...
I dont know how its can be finished.

 

[naervod]

Can you give me definitive links to the Schalke 04 and Shakhtar budgets, because from what I've found I can't find much recent stuff, but it looks like (and would seem correct that) Schalke has a much bigger budget than Shakhtar.