UFO: Enemy Unknown, remake by Firaxis

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Never got Civ IV Colonization, but I did pick up the original on Good Old Games - I remember playing it ceaselessly when it first came out.

Good thing too, the new version was broken beyond repair.

I must admit, I am a bit nervous about Firaxis doing this game. Their recent track record have been, well, disastrous IMHO. Colonization, complete and utter failure; Civ V, a failure (though I have been told it is a lot better nowadays, I only played it for less than a year); Civ Revolution, catastrophic failure; Railroads!, I'd rather play the old version; Pirates!, meh. And Civ IV was a disaster at launch, though CivIV BTS was very good.

That is not a good sign.
 
Colonization wasn't that bad was it? I may still pick it up some day if I see it cheap. I keep meaning to pick up Pirates (which they did about 7 years ago I think), I just never get around to it.

note: I have not played the originals of either game.
 
In the Demo, if you let your Heavy Soldier (the guy who survived first mission) kill most of the Aliens in the second mission, it lets you promote him to Sargent at the end of the mission. (He somehow got promoted from Squadie to Corporal between missions) I've done this twice, both times the Heavy had a total of 7 kills at the end of the mission (2 from first mission + 5 of 6 kills from 2nd mission). Not sure if 6 kills would be enough to earn the promotion. Here is the list of all Heavy abilities at each promotion level up through Sargent.

Squadie - Fire Rocket (we knew this from the first scripted mission). Only ability available at Squadie.

Corporal 1 - Bullet Swarm = Firing primary weapon as the first action no longer ends turn.

Corporal 2 - Holo-Targeting = Shooting at or Suppressing enemies also confers +10 Aim to any allies' attacks on those enemies. (This is the ability that was chosen in the Demo)

Sargent 1 - Shredder Rocket = Fires a rocket that causes all enemies to take +33% Damage from all sources for the next 4 turns. The rocket's blast is weaker than a standard rocket.

Sargent 2 - Suppression - Can fire a special shot that grants reaction fire at a single target. The target also suffers a -30 Aim penalty.
 
Colonization wasn't that bad was it? I may still pick it up some day if I see it cheap. I keep meaning to pick up Pirates (which they did about 7 years ago I think), I just never get around to it.

note: I have not played the originals of either game.

Not the original, but the newer version is completely broken (in single player at least).
The way the game is designed, it is counter productive to grow. You get a harder game and a lower score. Yeah, that bad.
I showed, within a couple of days from launch, how to reliably defeat the AI, on the hardest settings, with the worst leader, with only one city. And the One City Challenge is the only one of those that provided any challenge.
There is a definitive best way to play the game, best leader, best founding father and so on. There is no real choice in game, except if you want to cripple yourself.
You can even, if you start a bit lucky, take out the AI in the first few turns (not win the game though, that takes a bit longer).
It was a bigger design failure than Civ V was at launch.
 
Civ V, a failure (though I have been told it is a lot better nowadays, I only played it for less than a year)

That seems a strange definition of failure to me, and would do even if "less than a year" wasn't much under half the game's lifetime to date. I haven't been playing it that long and consider it a success. Failure would be something closer to Endless Space (not worth playing past the beta, plus a check to see that the final version hadn't improved any of its features) or to a lesser extent Diablo III (fun to play at the time, but I recall both of the first two games having replay value which seems completely lacking in the new one). If you stuck with it for that long pre-patch and G&K, it will certainly be worth revisiting now.

I don't know the story behind how Firaxis ended up with a licence to a game franchise from a defunct British studio that appears to have been sufficiently protective of its brand name that clones like the UFO: After*** series were unable to use the X-COM name (or a variant thereof); it's not the most obvious choice of studio to pick it up, beyond the link that both Civilization and X-COM started life under the Microprose umbrella.

In the Demo, if you let your Heavy Soldier (the guy who survived first mission) kill most of the Aliens in the second mission, it lets you promote him to Sargent at the end of the mission. (He somehow got promoted from Squadie to Corporal between missions) I've done this twice, both times the Heavy had a total of 7 kills at the end of the mission (2 from first mission + 5 of 6 kills from 2nd mission). Not sure if 6 kills would be enough to earn the promotion. Here is the list of all Heavy abilities at each promotion level up through Sargent.

It's disappointing that they're going down this route and rank is just another word for 'level'. Again the original game was much more flexible in how characters 'levelled', and rank was unrelated - rank was assigned on military grounds based on the size of your force as a whole (for instance, you needed more than 10 to have a Captain, more than I think 15 or 20 to have two Captains and a Colonel and so forth), though you could have any number of squaddies. It was one of those minor things that added to the atmosphere and made the game feel more 'real', even if it was irritating to see the computer often 'rewarding' sub-par soldiers with high rank.

Squadie - Fire Rocket (we knew this from the first scripted mission). Only ability available at Squadie.

Corporal 1 - Bullet Swarm = Firing primary weapon as the first action no longer ends turn.

Corporal 2 - Holo-Targeting = Shooting at or Suppressing enemies also confers +10 Aim to any allies' attacks on those enemies. (This is the ability that was chosen in the Demo)

Sargent 1 - Shredder Rocket = Fires a rocket that causes all enemies to take +33% Damage from all sources for the next 4 turns. The rocket's blast is weaker than a standard rocket.

Sargent 2 - Suppression - Can fire a special shot that grants reaction fire at a single target. The target also suffers a -30 Aim penalty.

None of these appears interesting or given to much in the way of tactical use that's reliant on cleverly selecting abilities for your troopers that work together, as advertised. It just seems a batch of bland power-ups.

I do get the unfortunate sense that this, while likely to be a good game, is going to end up prioritising mechanics over the character of the original - possibly not coincidentally, this is what most complaints about Civ V compared with older versions of the game also boil down to when you look into them. It probably reflects a general change in the game design landscape since the early-mid '90s when the games being revived were first released. There are now so many games competing with one another in any given genre that they're all trying to compete to be the most mechanically or graphically polished version of the 'genre standard', rather than trying to do something new, characterful and distinctive.
 
Civ 1-3 was absolutely mindblowing games for me, then 4 came and I felt a dull feeling playing that game. Then 5 came out and that dullness turned into even worse, dullness is a fine word to use for that game, YAWN comes into mind when playing. I still play, but it's not anywhere of the excitement as from the earlier games.

They did a remake of Colonization and completely killed it. Original Col was a wonderful game and I played it over and over again. The remake? I finished one game and didn't look back.

Now UFO, in how many ways will they mess up this great title? I played the UFO-series too much as well and can't see this new launch succeed, with the record of destroying good old games.

2 of my all time favs been "nearly" destroyed already and here comes the third, can I even hope they will do something good this time?

I don't see how those games are destroyed unless they came to your house and destroyed the disks for the original game, and every other copy, physical or digital everywhere. You've lost nothing regardless of how you feel something has been taken from you.
 
...It's disappointing that they're going down this route and rank is just another word for 'level'. Again the original game was much more flexible in how characters 'levelled', and rank was unrelated - rank was assigned on military grounds based on the size of your force as a whole (for instance, you needed more than 10 to have a Captain, more than I think 15 or 20 to have two Captains and a Colonel and so forth), though you could have any number of squaddies. It was one of those minor things that added to the atmosphere and made the game feel more 'real', even if it was irritating to see the computer often 'rewarding' sub-par soldiers with high rank.
Disappointing in what way? Would you please explain your statement.

There weren't any levels for Soldiers in the original X-COM, so it could hardly be more flexible in that regard. There were some minor things you could do that slowly improve your soldier's stats over the course of the game, but reaching a certain stat level, such as improving the soldier's strength to 40, didn't mean he had gained a level.

As you point out, in the original X-COM, having Officer-ranked soldiers was purely a function of the total number of soldiers you had, and when you had the proper number of soldiers, the game would choose who to promote, and as you said, it often promoted sub-par soldiers. Even though the original X-COM was a very good game, it could have been even better if it had let the player choose which soldiers to promote. At this point, do we know that there will not be a requirement in XCOM: EU to have X number of soldiers before you can have Officers?

And in the original X-COM, since your initial base had a bunch of Scientists & Engineers for Research & Manufacturing, getting enough soldiers to have officers often meant building a 2nd base and staffing it with 10 - 12 Rookies, so that the soldiers in your main base who were running the Missions could get promoted. I don't think that made the game feel more real, and having to have a bunch of Rookies sitting in another base doing nothing just to get officer promotions certainly did nothing for the atmosphere of the game.

IMO, having abilities to choose as your soldiers advance in rank is a major improvement over the original X-COM.

None of these appears interesting or given to much in the way of tactical use that's reliant on cleverly selecting abilities for your troopers that work together, as advertised. It just seems a batch of bland power-ups.

I'm not sure how you can say this when there are four more ranks to be gained and seven more abilities that we don't know which could be chosen. The optimal method for promoting your soldiers are still TDB, and won't be determined until the full game is released and people get a chance to start playing.

You see nothing interesting and nothing that could be used in a tactical way. I get the unfortunate sense that you have already decided that this will be a bad game based on a too short Demo that revealed very little about the actual game. Here is what I see...

The Bullet Swarm ability (firing primary weapon 1st doesn't end turn) implies that a Heavy Soldier with this ability would be able to perform two offensive actions in his turn. That gives a Heavy several options on his turn: fire LMG twice, fire LMG/throw Grenade, fire LMG/fire Rocket Launcher, throw Grenade/fire Rocket Launcher. Combine Bullet Swarm with Shredder Rocket at the Sargent level, and you could fire a Standard Rocket and a Shredder Rocket on the same turn. And I'd be surprised if there weren't two or three of the seven abilities which we don't know which would improve Rocket Launcher skill even more.

A Sargent Heavy with Holo-Targeting & Suppression Abilities can pin down a target with the suppression fire, giving that target a -30 Aim penalty, and granting all other allied soldiers on the mission a +10 Aim bonus on the target. Again, I'll be surprised if there aren't other abilities down the line that improve this line of Abilities.
 
Disappointing in what way? Would you please explain your statement.

There weren't any levels for Soldiers in the original X-COM, so it could hardly be more flexible in that regard. There were some minor things you could do that slowly improve your soldier's stats over the course of the game, but reaching a certain stat level, such as improving the soldier's strength to 40, didn't mean he had gained a level.

That's because in a system that 'grows' characters organically, the concept of a 'level' is as meaningless as it is in reality. They improved their abilities - the rigid 'levelling' of RPG-inspired systems is not a goal to aim for, it's an intrinsically restrictive way of representing a continuous process of improving skills as a series of discrete gradations. Essentially, it's a step backwards, in the same way that I consider Shogun 2's addition of character levels that allow the player to select from paired options that increase one or other stat regressive compared with the organic character development of older Total War games, where you still get 3 star, 4 star etc. characters (indeed with a higher threshold than Shogun 2's 4-level system), but they develop in ways relevant to the actions they have performed. It also fosters the widespread gaming mentality that measures achievement by the 'level' your character reaches, which I've always seen as an unfortunate consequence of unimaginative game design rather than something to further encourage.

But my key concern is as I noted - the game's adoption of such generic genre standards as named levels, power-up skill trees and unit classes makes the end result feel, indeed, generic - losing much of the character of the original game in the process. Nothing in anything I've posted suggests I expect it to be a bad game; but I have no expectation that it will be an "X-COM" game in the sense of the original.

As you point out, in the original X-COM, having Officer-ranked soldiers was purely a function of the total number of soldiers you had, and when you had the proper number of soldiers, the game would choose who to promote, and as you said, it often promoted sub-par soldiers. Even though the original X-COM was a very good game, it could have been even better if it had let the player choose which soldiers to promote. At this point, do we know that there will not be a requirement in XCOM: EU to have X number of soldiers before you can have Officers?

Levels are named according to officer rank - it's remarkably unlikely that the game will include a system that will arbitrarily prevent certain soldiers from levelling up.

And in the original X-COM, since your initial base had a bunch of Scientists & Engineers for Research & Manufacturing, getting enough soldiers to have officers often meant building a 2nd base and staffing it with 10 - 12 Rookies, so that the soldiers in your main base who were running the Missions could get promoted. I don't think that made the game feel more real, and having to have a bunch of Rookies sitting in another base doing nothing just to get officer promotions certainly did nothing for the atmosphere of the game.

Why would you even do that? There was no benefit other than theme to having ranked soldiers, so why maximise soldiers to obtain ranks you don't need for gameplay reasons? And by late in the game I usually had at least three squads with transports anyway to maximise the missions I could run. Though even doing that, with the larger squad sizes in the original game you were still usually going to end up with a mix of officer classes and supporting squaddies - does a squad with 6 colonels really feel less realistic to you than that? Notwithstanding that so much of X-COM's feel was about seeing your characters grow. If the colonel is by default the best field soldier in your force (which is not itself very reflective of reality), then if he's the one getting all the kills there's nothing very interesting happening storywise, compared with the squaddie who performs above his station or the eternal sergeant who sets a good example for his men in every mission.

IMO, having abilities to choose as your soldiers advance in rank is a major improvement over the original X-COM.

I'd say that having abilities would be a major improvement in principle, but the way they're allocated is, once again, pandering to a rather unfortunate genre standard. I'd much rather see something along the lines of the old Total War system, where abilities are assigned based largely on the way the character plays during the game (in that game, for instance, a general who leads a successful attack with a predominantly cavalry force might be rewarded with a 'cavalry commander' ability).

I'm not sure how you can say this when there are four more ranks to be gained and seven more abilities that we don't know which could be chosen. The optimal method for promoting your soldiers are still TDB, and won't be determined until the full game is released and people get a chance to start playing.

The very idea of having an "optimal build" is anathema to strategic and tactical flexibility - and given the style of game X-COM is, it is unlikely that specific missions will require radically different set-ups. There are already so many games out there that revolve around levelling up and finding the right 'build order', why would I want one with the X-COM brand name if it does nothing new?

I get the unfortunate sense that you have already decided that this will be a bad game based on a too short Demo that revealed very little about the actual game.

See above, and indeed my past posts. In fact I've already mentioned several times that I expect the game to be quite good, and moreover that the demo is plainly unrepresentative. But a good game whose selling point over a classic game I already own is that it adopts a standard set of generic mechanics from a bunch of modern games I already own seems an exercise in futility, and I'm not seeing anything in Let's Plays, previews or anything else that suggests the new X-COM game is going to be anything more than a turn-based version of Dawn of War II, only with fewer abilities for your characters.

The Bullet Swarm ability (firing primary weapon 1st doesn't end turn) implies that a Heavy Soldier with this ability would be able to perform two offensive actions in his turn. That gives a Heavy several options on his turn: fire LMG twice, fire LMG/throw Grenade, fire LMG/fire Rocket Launcher, throw Grenade/fire Rocket Launcher. Combine Bullet Swarm with Shredder Rocket at the Sargent level, and you could fire a Standard Rocket and a Shredder Rocket on the same turn. And I'd be surprised if there weren't two or three of the seven abilities which we don't know which would improve Rocket Launcher skill even more.

You're missing the point I intended, perhaps because I didn't quote the section of the 'Some Things You Should Know About the Demo' article that this was a response to. The claim there - and in the Let's Play, as I recall - was that the abilities needed to be selected in a way that maximised their abilities for the unit as a whole, not for the individual soldier. If it's all about finding the way that the heavy can become the best possible heavy, that's uninteresting and no different from your bog-standard Diablo clone. If it's about selecting abilities for your Heavy whose utility will vary depending on whether your squad is balanced, whether is composed mainly of assault personnel, whether it's focused on snipers and other heavies - that's when it becomes an interesting mechanic that presents genuine options. The way to be the best heavy will always be the same if all you need to consider is the character in isolation.

A Sargent Heavy with Holo-Targeting & Suppression Abilities can pin down a target with the suppression fire, giving that target a -30 Aim penalty, and granting all other allied soldiers on the mission a +10 Aim bonus on the target. Again, I'll be surprised if there aren't other abilities down the line that improve this line of Abilities.

Holo-targeting is another annoyance simply for the name - where does this technology come from without research? X-COM was intended as a unit of basic modern human soldiers, with limited special equipment at their inception. The new, small teams of magic superpower soldiers seem to have less in common with X-COM than with the X-Men.
 
to be honest, i agree with using military ranks as a leveling system is a pretty sloppy way of doing things. being in the military before(conscripted and stuff), NCOs level and below are much more efficient at getting things done than a bunch of 2LTs since they will be bickering among each other before they even start work.

I would very much prefer the player(commander) to advance the ranks as a officer, starting off being a lieutenant, giving passive boosts to the guys that you are commanding, makes alot more sense than sending a major or colonel out in the field. then once hitting senior officer ranks, u can aquire more supplies for ur guys, just throwing out some random ideas for officer perks.

if they have to use military ranks, imo NCOs and warrant officers are much better choices than officer ranks. those are the guys with real experience in field work.

holo targetting can also be another name for mark targetting. pretty much the same as the command 'watch my tracer'. fire a tracer round at the target to get everyone's attention so they will all know the enemy's position.
 
holo targetting can also be another name for mark targetting. pretty much the same as the command 'watch my tracer'. fire a tracer round at the target to get everyone's attention so they will all know the enemy's position.

Which would be fine - it's surprising how much difference something like the choice of name, whether for a rank or an ability, can make to a game's feel. I'm also troubled by this element of the 'ability' implementation - it's not adding a new layer that X-COM never had before, because the abilities are being split between 'new stuff', replicating effects from the time unit system that the new one lacks the inherent flexibility to implement (such as being able to fire twice or fire then carry out another action), and replacing the inventory system - so abilities include rockets, an effect that essentially turns your rockets into high explosive rounds, battle scanners that do what the old electroflares did and so forth. This again is very limiting. In X-COM of old you could change your Skyranger's loadout based on the enemies you were up against (once you'd developed tech to let you see which aliens were in a given UFO from the geoscape), or decide whether rockets were more appropriate than autocannon - now, if you've got a heavy trained up one way, he's always going to work that way.

Okay, the tactical flexibility aspect of weapon selection was not brilliantly-handled in the earlier X-COM games - there were too few alien weapon types, and plasma beat other options against most things; it was only in the early game when you had weapons with different types of rounds. While you might bring a couple of lasers along in case you ran into cyberdiscs, you certainly weren't going to lug around incendiary rockets on the offchance you'd run into Reapers, because it was just too much investment in TUs, ammo limitations and reduced utility against Floaters for the sake of a low-priority alien type. But this is surely precisely the area where flexibility is to be added rather than taken away. I'm not sure I want to play an X-COM game and feel as though I'm playing a single-person version of a World of Warcraft adventuring team where all that matters is that I've selected the right classes of the right levels.
 
Was the original game this scripted?

I played the demo twice now and chose to save the Chinese the second time. It was the exact same map as in the US, same aliens and the same places.
I thought, never having played the original, that the original game was a fairly random experience. This feels like it's going to be a fully scripted SP campaign. If you fail a mission because of a scripted ambush, you'll know about it the second time.

Does anyone have any info that suggests what the singleplayer campaign will be like in terms of scripted-/randomness?
 
Yes, there's some info ^^...

I guess everyone, who's worried about the linearity and the cut scenes in the demo, might be pleased to hear that this is only in the demo, according to RockPaperShotgun (Article: Some Things You Should Know About The XCOM Demo).

From the article:
2) Going on from that, you won’t see many more cutscenes. [...] in terms of in-mission or even pre-mission stuff, there’s almost nothing after the scripted, scene-setting stuff in the tutorial missions. [...]

6) Do not worry about linearity. This demo will barely let you breathe because it’s only the tutorial and some bonus cutscenes, and for that reason I think it might have been a huge mistake. It’s giving out the wrong impression entirely, and it doesn’t reflect the ongoing tension of the constant decision-making the game involves.
 
That seems a strange definition of failure to me, and would do even if "less than a year" wasn't much under half the game's lifetime to date. I haven't been playing it that long and consider it a success. Failure would be something closer to Endless Space (not worth playing past the beta, plus a check to see that the final version hadn't improved any of its features) or to a lesser extent Diablo III (fun to play at the time, but I recall both of the first two games having replay value which seems completely lacking in the new one). If you stuck with it for that long pre-patch and G&K, it will certainly be worth revisiting now.

It was a failure at launch, because the game created worked in the exact opposite way of that the designers had intended. This part is not even debatable (except, of course, the definition of failure), as they did state they had created a game where small empires were the way, and the game clearly favoured sprawling empires.
It was a failure because there were no strategic choices, because there were a single best way to play the game.
It was a failure because the AI did not know how to play the game, and to make it even remotely challenging, it cheated so much so that it played a different game.

Now, it may have been fixed, but that doesn't change that it was a failure.

Also, I didn't play it constantly, just a handful of times over a year or so, to see if it had improved. It had not in any meaningful way.

Now, I may at some point go back, because I found Civ IV to be a launch-failure as well, and ended loving Civ IV BTS (partly because of the mods though).

But the point is that Firaxis have had a very poor track record, and an even worse at launch, and I would have to have more than a highly scripted demo/tutorial for me to buy this game before at least a year have gone by.


More on topic. I find it somewhat disconcerting that inventory is gone.
That alone cuts the amount of ingenuity you can bring to the game down quite a bit. All the stuff you could use to enhance the game, mines, tripwires, demolition equipment for those times where you want to go through a wall instead of the door, a probe, hell even a look-around-the-corner mirror would be welcome, especially considering the new focus on cover (which is not a bad thing).
Also, overwatch seems to be out. That is a darn shame, and could be incorporated into a cover fire mechanism.
Seems to have caught a mild case of consolitis, I just hope these are all the symptoms there is.
 
More on topic. I find it somewhat disconcerting that inventory is gone.
That alone cuts the amount of ingenuity you can bring to the game down quite a bit. All the stuff you could use to enhance the game, mines, tripwires, demolition equipment for those times where you want to go through a wall instead of the door, a probe, hell even a look-around-the-corner mirror would be welcome, especially considering the new focus on cover (which is not a bad thing).

I agree. This was something they could have expanded on rather than removed, and even most games that use level-based upgrades still have an inventory system. It seems there's a 'backpack' but the degree to which you can customise its contents is unclear (probably just different numbers/types of grenade) - certainly weapon and ammo changes are out, as are electro flares (confirmed in the Let's Play).

On a related subject, grenades seem much too easy to use now - no more careful positioning while you take most of a turn to equip, prime and throw a grenade, and what's more with the shorter ranges at which soldiers apparently see enemies, it looks as though your grenades are always in range. And without a prime mechanic as in the older games, as you mention you can't lay mines. Sure you're going to be more limited in the numbers of grenades you have, but it makes a big difference to how relevant true tactical play is if rushing up and chucking a grenade pretty much negates any importance of cover.

Also, overwatch seems to be out. That is a darn shame, and could be incorporated into a cover fire mechanism.

It's in as a specific mechanic, rather than opportunity fire when you have TUs left over, and you have to actively trigger it as an action rather than end your turn with a free action and expect your guys to do their thing. I actually quite like the fact that you can no longer set up a guy with large numbers of TUs and reliably machine gun everything that comes into sight - it does force tactical play that your guy on overwatch is only going to fire once that turn, so you have to place him where it will count. But it's inherently inflexible that you have to set overwatch as an action, combined with the way movement now works - overwatch seems rather like kneel in the older games, something to do by default once you're ready to end your turn, rather than something to consider when deciding whether to take actions at all in order to increase your chances of getting a successful shot if any enemies emerge.
 
on the topic on cover, what does cover do? am I right to assume that all they do is make your guys tougher to hit? or they also cause damage reduction?
 
on the topic on cover, what does cover do? am I right to assume that all they do is make your guys tougher to hit? or they also cause damage reduction?

Just harder to hit, I suspect, as in the first game. Particularly since weapons seem to have a fixed amount of damage they deal (criticals notwithstanding).
 
removal of the inventory unfortunately seems to fit well with the reduced squad size and the remodelling of things such as unit progression and how you take your actions. No need to have an ammo mule for your "heavy" if you can only fire your rocket once. With fewer and more specific units you have no need to tailor your equipment as if you did you would lose the benefit of the restrictive class levels. With only a few "moves" per turn how can you get that proximity grenade you have in your belt, prime it and throw it instead of using the conventional grenade you already have in your hand? Actually the answer to the last one is easy, you just have an ability button for both grenades.

I do think it will be a good and fun game, I just don't think its going to be the worthy successor to UFO I've been waiting for.
 
This demo will barely let you breathe because it’s only the tutorial and some bonus cutscenes, and for that reason I think it might have been a huge mistake. It’s giving out the wrong impression entirely, and it doesn’t reflect the ongoing tension of the constant decision-making the game involves.

Woeful, terrible, idiotic mistake. Anyone who just plays the demo thinks this is going to be like a turn-based FPS singleplayer campaign. I know enough about the project to know better, but a lot of people don't.
 
Actually, you just reminded me of something...

I finally got a chance to watch the hour long developer play-through yesterday and they had a multiplayer option in the main menu with promises of more details to come...

So, has that info been relayed yet?

Sent from my LG-C800 using Tapatalk 2
 
Has anyone who's been following this found any pre-order sales with a better discount than Green Man Gaming? Currently they're offering for $45, which is $5 off, but I'm sure somewhere will come around and offer it cheaper.

And posts of this nature seem to vanish on the 2k forums.
 
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