UFO: Enemy Unknown, remake by Firaxis

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I reserved my copy for xbox (I'll get the PC version later) for less than $24 at Gamestop. Of course, that was with $39 worth of trade-in. More than I was expecting. I did some housecleaning and took old madden and wwe games in which were just collecting dust on my shelf. Anyway, that is probably the best way to get a preorder discount.

Now, back to my (more important) question... what news is there of the multiplayer mode? I haven't yet come across anything in my searches.

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on the topic on cover, what does cover do? am I right to assume that all they do is make your guys tougher to hit? or they also cause damage reduction?

Tougher to hit.
 
Has anyone who's been following this found any pre-order sales with a better discount than Green Man Gaming? Currently they're offering for $45, which is $5 off, but I'm sure somewhere will come around and offer it cheaper.

And posts of this nature seem to vanish on the 2k forums.

If I really want a new game that comes out (rare because I prefer to buy discounted way later), and I know it's a Steam game, I usually get deals with codes on Green Man Gaming. I got Borderlands 2 and all of its future expansion packs for less than 60$, I got Guild Wars 2 for like 40$ and Gods and Kings for 20$. All of these would have cost me pretty much 100$, 60$ and 30$ if I had gotten them off Steam. But you gotta wait for sudden discount codes for it to truly work, and they come once in a while, and add up with already existing discounts.

I only buy games that I know will not require me interacting with Green Man Gaming ever again though. Borderlands 2 and Civ 5 are Steam games, Guild Wars 2 is a game that works through ArenaNet's servers. Basically all I got from GMG was the codes to unlock these on Steam or ArenaNet's servers. Then I can forget all about GMG. I don't want to deal with Capsule (their software).
 
I have not tried the demo, for the reason I will end this post with, but I have read through the comments here about people's impressions of it. The draw of the original game was that so much of it could be "personalized" to one's choices of playing the game. From the comments here, much of the player personalization seems to be absent from the new version. Namely the soldiers use class and level limitations, rather than earlier more realistic personal attributes. The game chooses the soldier's role, rather than the player. Their movement and shooting choices are now more limited, and less relating to real life. There is no inventory, choosing how to outfit the soldiers was always one of my favorite parts of the old game. My impression from the descriptions written here is that many things in the game are no longer a player chosen thing, but things the game selects instead. That is a retrograde step. Ironic that a new version of a game would be more restrictive of player choices than the original, given the vast improvement in computer power over the last 20 years. I would rather have seen that extra computing power go to an expansion of player choice and the removal of some the other restrictions.

The new game probably has other deficiencies in comparison to the original, not shown in the demo, or maybe not described here. On the other hand, the new game may have improved upon the game in other areas not shown in the demo. There were a few things in the old game I really hated. The AI cheating around the shooting was very annoying. But the mind control garbage was a game breaker for me. Once the game reached that point, I usually stopped enjoying it. If the new game did away with those two things, that would be great. But given Firaxis' track record, they probably made the shooting cheats figure higher in the coding and boosted the role of mind control in the game. Both are easy (and less costly to make) programming shortcuts to avoid programming a challenging AI.

Since the game requires the Steam malware to run, I wont be buying it, or trying the demo, since that requires the Steam malware also. I detest Steam and what it has done to gaming and do not use them.
 
Yeah Firaxis still hasn't learned their lesson. Further dumbing down of computer games. Sad that we can't make a game as good as 20 years ago. Pathetic.

I've given up on Civ5. I tried so hard to like that game. And it kinda sorta is fun, but taking away choices doesn't make a game more fun. Yes I can understand not everyone likes micromanagement, but some people do. Why not give us the option?

I still say SMAC was best in the regard to giving the player choices. Sure the AI couldn't handle it, but so what? Most people still regard the game very highly. Which they won't regard Civ5 in another 10 years. SMAC holds up much better.

I agree with your post right up until the Steam part. I'm okay with Steam.

I was never a fan of mind control, and I don't like being forced into that playing style (if you don't, your squad gets tore up pretty bad). Nothing will top the original. The new game would have to introduce some pretty amazing things to compensate for the cool things they took out.

I know it may not be feasible, but why not have things like inventory control? For those who don't like micromanagement have the game auto equip based on their abilities. Just give us the option to equip our squad as we see fit.
 
I think a lot of people are being rather negative about this. My only worry is that the game should not turn in to massive script with little or no replay value. The beauty of the original is that there were so many strategies you could employ in your pursuit of victory. Im also slightly disappointed that there is not the option of building new bases, although you can build radar bases to further your detection. Whether or not the aliens will attack your base and invade it, is as yet unknown.

My understanding of the choices you have to make is that this merely impacts upon your position in that particular territory. For instance, in the demo, the map was identical, but you got a certain reward for completing it depending on the choice that you made. I also think that there are a finite number of maps for the computer to use, but that alien placement is random.

I think the demo was almost certainly set on easy difficulty. When i first play, im going to stick it on normal i think because it was a little too easy.

Finally, the apparent lack of ability to kit out your troops. Im not sure this is the case. I just think that you do it before the mission. Admittedly you cannot pick stuff up from the battlefield. I did use to enjoy that aspect of UFO. I always used to just down the first etheral ship, shoot one with a stun bomb, pick up its stunned ass and stick it in my backpack, then set off for home leaving the rest. I guess you wont be able to do this now.

I think adding boss elements to the aliens is a definite improvement. The commanders and leaders in the original were only marginally more powerful than their peers. And often the only noticeable difference was that they carried a different weapon.

Finally the levelling system is a marked improvement in my view. The original only offered fairly moderate increases in your stats and the addition of special abilities is a good idea. I hope that a similar system is used for the aliens. Some people seem to be advocating a skyrim style system of improving your soldiers. I think this is a silly idea and that there is nothing wrong with levels. The emphasis should be completely focussed on the strategic element of the geoscope and the tactical aspect of the combat.
 
Skyrim?

The first X-com was the first do have skills improve as you use them. Why not stick with the original?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Imho there is nothing broke in the original game except perhaps psi combat, and the length of the game (although I personally am fine with a game that takes several days to complete).
 
I think a lot of people are being rather negative about this....Im also slightly disappointed that there is not the option of building new bases, although you can build radar bases to further your detection.

Only one base - that sucks. Another thing to be negative about. ;) Part of the fun of the strategic element of the original was picking the best spots for your bases to try and get maximum anti-alien coverage. I usually filled up all the base slots with half of them having assault teams, research and manufacturing capability, and the rest to provide better radar coverage and extra storage. Setting up the layout of the bases themselves to best resist alien attack was also fun.
 
Colonization wasn't that bad was it? I may still pick it up some day if I see it cheap. I keep meaning to pick up Pirates (which they did about 7 years ago I think), I just never get around to it.

note: I have not played the originals of either game.

I think the only thing truly bad about Civ4 Colonization on release was that the strict revolution win condition was nearly impossible (between getting a war declaration and actually winning the war) and the economy was a bit challenging (especially in keeping up a trained population). The founding fathers implementation was an original take on Civ4 AND the original Colonization. The mods of Civ4 Colonization made it very playable. They also patched it so a "tory" victory was possible I recall, which was ok for sandbox building without juggling liberty bell income.

Although if the reviewer felt Civ4 was not an improvement on Civ3 (which it was in my opinion), then the Civ4 Colonization would probably not be taken as an improvement on the original.

I would agree that the amount of economy micromanagement in Civ4 was extreme, mostly because of the "Railroads" like game-play of setting up trade-routes and tweaking production levels.

But anyways, not really relevant for Xcom vs X-com discussions. It's too early to tell, but it looks like the new Xcom is definitely streamlined to appeal to consoles and casual gamers, more like Civ Rev was vs. Civ4, but I think they are leaving a bit of 'crunchy' management for tactical RPG gamers to enjoy. It might not appeal to people who massively micro the original X-coms, but I think Xcom will probably get good public reception.
 
I have not tried the demo, for the reason I will end this post with, but I have read through the comments here about people's impressions of it. The draw of the original game was that so much of it could be "personalized" to one's choices of playing the game. From the comments here, much of the player personalization seems to be absent from the new version. Namely the soldiers use class and level limitations, rather than earlier more realistic personal attributes. The game chooses the soldier's role, rather than the player. Their movement and shooting choices are now more limited, and less relating to real life. There is no inventory, choosing how to outfit the soldiers was always one of my favorite parts of the old game. My impression from the descriptions written here is that many things in the game are no longer a player chosen thing, but things the game selects instead. That is a retrograde step. Ironic that a new version of a game would be more restrictive of player choices than the original, given the vast improvement in computer power over the last 20 years. I would rather have seen that extra computing power go to an expansion of player choice and the removal of some the other restrictions.

I agree that it's a retrograde step (and have argued so at length), but it does have to be looked at in the context of the perhaps unfortunate reality of modern game design, which is standardised, rules-driven and mechanical - and as a result often feels very generic.

The difficulty in simply 'crying foul', other than relying on now-unrealistic expectations, is that the design decisions behind doing this are ultimately valid. If you go onto any RTS, say, forum, or a Diablo game forum or whatever, you hear one concern raised again and again: balance. Mechanical balance is essential in a multiplayer gaming world, as we're now in, and takes precedence over theme or simulation. In 1993 it didn't matter that you could get an X-COM soldier with incredible psychic resistance, 90% accuracy, a blaster launcher and the action points to use it a couple of times a turn - the AI aliens weren't going to cry foul. Balance ultimately means standardisation - the only way to approach true balance is to use restrictive, equivalent classes with similar types of abilities, and games that stray too far from this (say, Company of Heroes to use a recent example) are routinely accused of having balance problems.

So we're forced into these kinds of class-based straightjackets because the designers and testers can't evaluate how balanced more than a few combinations of equipment/abilities/etc. are.

The other motive is accessibility; the more games look like other games someone is familiar with, and the more they play similarly, the easier it is for new players to get into them. This is a less valid reason mechanically, but it's a commercial reason and so is hard to criticise from an industry that exists to make money from selling nonessential products. Company of Heroes is quite likely the best game released this millennium, but it's not user-friendly even to players of other modern-style RTSes; the more popular Dawn of War series by the same developers strips away a lot of the detail, replaces the innovative 'Company Commander' series with more familiar hero units, eliminates considerations of supply and the need for a tactical map, and for the above-mentioned balance reasons does more to standardise unit types and hero abilities/types across factions. While Blizzard has gradually been standardising the game interfaces for all three of its products, and its latest World of Warcraft expansion has dispensed with learning special abilities in favour of being granted them automatically and selecting from between them. The reason is likely that WoW is declining in popularity while Diablo III - which implements this system - has picked up new or lapsed fans for a WoW-type game. So making WoW even more similar to Diablo than it was before may be an attempt to bring in Diablo fans.

But given Firaxis' track record, they probably made the shooting cheats figure higher in the coding and boosted the role of mind control in the game.

The original AI really wasn't that bad - in fact replaying the game, it's probably comparable to most equivalent modern AIs. Likely better in some respects - I can't really see a modern AI handling options like grenades well, while the old game always seemed to throw them to maximum effect.

Mind control was what it was meant to be - very scary (when it was the aliens with it), and you quickly learned even before getting psionics yourself which of your operatives tended to be resistant. This is one of those things that really wouldn't work well in a multiplayer environment the same way it was implemented before, but a single-player game is about challenging yourself and balance isn't really a concern. Although Sectoids seemed to be a bit too capable of using psionics against targets they shouldn't be able to see.

Finally, the apparent lack of ability to kit out your troops. Im not sure this is the case. I just think that you do it before the mission. Admittedly you cannot pick stuff up from the battlefield. I did use to enjoy that aspect of UFO. I always used to just down the first etheral ship, shoot one with a stun bomb, pick up its stunned ass and stick it in my backpack, then set off for home leaving the rest. I guess you wont be able to do this now.

I think the only way to kit troops is with the laser/plasma version of whatever weapon they have by default - the Let's Play makes a passing reference to giving the squad lasers which are best against Cyberdiscs. But weapon options are plainly class-defined, and we already know that weapon and ammo types have been reinvented as character abilities.

I think adding boss elements to the aliens is a definite improvement. The commanders and leaders in the original were only marginally more powerful than their peers. And often the only noticeable difference was that they carried a different weapon.

Sounds like a class in the new version... I hadn't actually registered any 'boss elements', though presumably Sectoid leaders/commanders are still the only psionic Sectoids.

Finally the levelling system is a marked improvement in my view. The original only offered fairly moderate increases in your stats

All a soldier is is stats (and equipment). Any special ability you can give him is ultimately a stat improvement in one way or another, so why not just do it directly?

and the addition of special abilities is a good idea.

As I noted, my issues with this aren't in having special abilities, but with the implementation - the abilities we've seen so far are mostly just restricting certain abilities available to everyone in the old game to one or other class (only assault units can run and fire, rather than everyone, only heavies with certain upgrades have 'HE ammo' or the ability to fire twice, only snipers with battle scanners have electro-flare, and so forth), rather than adding a genuine new element. Secondly, tying them to levels is uninteresting and - again - I'd prefer the more organic character development of the original. Perhaps a character who has a lot of success firing at long range would get sniper-related abilities as he gains experience; someone who makes more use of grenades might gain benefits when using them. etc. etc.

I hope that a similar system is used for the aliens. Some people seem to be advocating a skyrim style system of improving your soldiers. I think this is a silly idea and that there is nothing wrong with levels.

There's nothing wrong with levels if seen in isolation. If this game is seen as a successor to UFO, however, levels look like a step backwards from the previous system.
 
I am thinking that is an option. I saw another playthrough where it was switching between "Humans" and "Aliens". One player was the "Humans" and the other player was the "Aliens". I think it was G4...

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PhilBowles

Turning a unique game into a generic one because they think it will sell better is precisely what is wrong with many games now. The innovation and creativity has been replaced by what they think will bring the highest sales. So we get numerous clones of the same basic game. It's like the pop music scene or Hollywood.

One thing you didn't mention that might be a major reason for this decline is the choice of game engine. Do these game developers all build their programming from the ground up, or do they purchase or license existing already developed engines to which they add their own bells and whistles? Back in the 90's there were several engines in use that were used by many different games. The same might be true now. It would certainly be cheaper to use an existing engine and the use of these could make all these games seem alike in structure, if not in exact details.

The AI in the original XCOM was very rudimentary. Knowing to set off a grenade is simple mechanics of selecting the most damaging weapon and having the code to implement it. I never noticed any real tactical movement of the AI in that game beyond the use of simple mechanical "tricks". The AI generally stayed put through a scenario, or seemed to wander randomly. Very simple AI programing. If this is better than recent games, then that really is a very sad reflection on the game makers.
 
Turning a unique game into a generic one because they think it will sell better is precisely what is wrong with many games now. The innovation and creativity has been replaced by what they think will bring the highest sales. So we get numerous clones of the same basic game. It's like the pop music scene or Hollywood.

To a large extent I don't disagree, but I do think that genuine issues of balance play a role - the era of gleeful experimentation with different computer game genres in the '80s and '90s (have any genuinely new genres emerged since?) didn't have to worry about game balance to any degree.

On the other hand, these are ultimately unnecessary products. Game development prices are higher than they were in the '90s and the potential market for any given game likely smaller due to the competition. So if people made more distinctive games that don't sell, there's not going to be an industry - the generic games can still very often be good games, but expecting a return to the heyday of the '90s is never likely to be realistic.

One thing you didn't mention that might be a major reason for this decline is the choice of game engine. Do these game developers all build their programming from the ground up, or do they purchase or license existing already developed engines to which they add their own bells and whistles? Back in the 90's there were several engines in use that were used by many different games. The same might be true now. It would certainly be cheaper to use an existing engine and the use of these could make all these games seem alike in structure, if not in exact details.

I hadn't been aware of that, but it might make sense.

The AI in the original XCOM was very rudimentary. Knowing to set off a grenade is simple mechanics of selecting the most damaging weapon and having the code to implement it. I never noticed any real tactical movement of the AI in that game beyond the use of simple mechanical "tricks". The AI generally stayed put through a scenario, or seemed to wander randomly. Very simple AI programing. If this is better than recent games, then that really is a very sad reflection on the game makers.

It often seemed to produce better results. How simple are the mechanics of selecting the most damaging weapon? If an AI could crack that reliably, the larger part of AI performance in most games would probably improve drastically. Aliens may have been largely sedentary (and if they spawned in the spaceship or on the top floor of a building they'd tend to wander aimlessly or not do anything), but they knew to make use of cover when available and how to use height and the fog of war to their advantage.

At the very least, the rudimentary AI did what it needed to to fit the feel of X-COM even if it might have been mechanically poor: playing it, I get the sense of being up against dangerous aliens who I can rely on being in the most inconvenient spots and using the weapons I'd least like them to. The spawning system could have used work to vary the weapon types you'd be up against for any given UFO class, though, or at least to change them over time. I often got relieved when I knew the only aliens left were ones with small launchers.
 
PhilBowles

Turning a unique game into a generic one because they think it will sell better is precisely what is wrong with many games now. The innovation and creativity has been replaced by what they think will bring the highest sales. So we get numerous clones of the same basic game. It's like the pop music scene or Hollywood.

One thing you didn't mention that might be a major reason for this decline is the choice of game engine. Do these game developers all build their programming from the ground up, or do they purchase or license existing already developed engines to which they add their own bells and whistles? Back in the 90's there were several engines in use that were used by many different games. The same might be true now. It would certainly be cheaper to use an existing engine and the use of these could make all these games seem alike in structure, if not in exact details.

The AI in the original XCOM was very rudimentary. Knowing to set off a grenade is simple mechanics of selecting the most damaging weapon and having the code to implement it. I never noticed any real tactical movement of the AI in that game beyond the use of simple mechanical "tricks". The AI generally stayed put through a scenario, or seemed to wander randomly. Very simple AI programing. If this is better than recent games, then that really is a very sad reflection on the game makers.

The use of generic game engines is by no means a bad thing. It means that we now more good games and less terrible ones. Back in the early 90s, it was rare that you had a game that worked flawlessly. Most of them had at least a few bugs, and some of them didnt work at all. Back in the 80s this was even more pronounced.

There is still room for innovation whilst using a generic game engine. You only have to look at portal for that. I guess it really boils down to the costs involved in making an engine from scratch. Its incredibly expensive and like it or lump it, graphics are a very important part of a game. But an engine (and graphics) are only a means to an end, not an end in themselves. RAGE demonstrates this point i think quite nicely. I do agree though that Firaxis are making an alarming slide in to the mass market. By doing that they risk alienating their core fans.
 
The use of generic game engines is by no means a bad thing. It means that we now more good games and less terrible ones. Back in the early 90s, it was rare that you had a game that worked flawlessly. Most of them had at least a few bugs, and some of them didnt work at all. Back in the 80s this was even more pronounced.

There is still room for innovation whilst using a generic game engine. You only have to look at portal for that. I guess it really boils down to the costs involved in making an engine from scratch. Its incredibly expensive and like it or lump it, graphics are a very important part of a game. But an engine (and graphics) are only a means to an end, not an end in themselves. RAGE demonstrates this point i think quite nicely. I do agree though that Firaxis are making an alarming slide in to the mass market. By doing that they risk alienating their core fans.

This I can't agree with, for the simple reason that Firaxis has always been mass market. It was conceived specifically to develop a spin-off, and then sequels, based on the brand name of a game known for being one of the most popular of its time. Half of the threads praising Civ IV to the heavens use as supporting evidence the suggestion that it's considerably more popular than Civ V. Mass market tastes have changed, but Firaxis isn't going after a new demographic it wasn't before - it's just adapting to retain the same mass market appeal it's always aimed at.
 
There certainly wouldn't be any sense spending four years and massive amounts of resources if you are targeting a niche market.
 
You guys really need to spend a lot more time looking at the different gameplay videos across the web from different reviewers and so on. There are quite a few out there. They tell you this

1. The demo is extremely limiting.
2. The first tutorial mission is automatically skipped on the second playthrough.
3. The scripting in the first mission is not present in later missions.

And a wealth of other things. Look up gamestop's TWO HOUR livestream, for instance.

edit- I even found it, here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaR-oDSxb3I

Oh look, a forum post containing links to what are probably all the videos.

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?134821-General-XCOM-Preview-Thread!
 
Terrible choice for a demo. It's not normal you end up reading in 50 different places "but guys the demo doesn't really represent the game, believe me". It means that not only is the demo not representing the game, but it's also obviously an not-so-hot experience for many people.
 
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