UFO: Enemy Unknown, remake by Firaxis

[sherbz]

About the 3rd slingshot mission, that cyberdisk is easily the most dangerous enemy on the map for the sole reason that it is pre activated. Not to mention that its a freaking disc before you have lasers and carapace

I had lasers and carapace, and even heavy lasers. But as you say, there isnt much you can do other than keep everyone behind some sort of cover. Its going to shoot at someone. Without the critical hit my sniper would have been ok, but he was flanked so thats death - even with carapce armour and a major. I guess i could have used the respirators or whatever. But i was totally cash strapped.

Problem was i was just lining everyone up to go through the next door. If you do that then at least the disk might go for your mech, which means they wont 1 shot it (assuming its not damaged).

 

[Pikkis]

It seems to me that the Marathon mode (Second Wave option) is extremely imbalanced. While research is four times slower and engineering costs are doubled (these define the mode), Portent still comes in early April! I'm pretty sure that in EU the aliens' progression was slower, too, but I guess that may not include council missions (or Marathon has been rebranded as yet-another 'makes the game a lot, lot harder' option).

Soldiers that are "bleeding out" when a mission ends, die. They do not go back to the barracks/infirmary. Could have swore in the previous version, they would transport back to the base, now it appears the become KIA. (can anyone else confirm this?

I've had a few and all have ended like in EU (i.e. the soldier doesn't die). Perhaps explosive-related death (after starting to bleed out) in your case?

 

[PhroX]

Why are people having so much trouble with Portent? OK, I'm not playing on Impossible (C/I), so it might be different on that level, but for me it was no more difficult than any other council mission (and certainly not a patch the goddamn bomb disposals...). I've played it twice and while the second time was almost laughably easy due to knowing exactly where the aliens would be, even the first time it wasn't a problem (5 soldiers, might've had carapace, ballistic weapons, no MECs), just use the standard XCOM tactics: be very very careful, overwatch everyone every turn unless you've had to shoot things, cover your movement with squadsight sniper on top of the buildings, make heavy (pun intended) use of explosives and when you get to the survivor only move him small amounts on the way back to prevent triggering multiple reinforcement spawns. The one thin man that spawned behind me on the way back was a little suprise, but an overwatching heavy made short work of him.

 

[PhilBowles]

It seems to me that the Marathon mode (Second Wave option) is extremely imbalanced. While research is four times slower and engineering costs are doubled (these define the mode), Portent still comes in early April! I'm pretty sure that in EU the aliens' progression was slower, too, but I guess that may not include council missions (or Marathon has been rebranded as yet-another 'makes the game a lot, lot harder' option).

Marathon always was harder than the standard game, due to the longer research times and wound recovery, and higher costs. The trick with Marathon is that, unlike standard mode, you have to build laboratories and take scientist reward missions as priorities.

Why are people having so much trouble with Portent? OK, I'm not playing on Impossible (C/I), so it might be different on that level, but for me it was no more difficult than any other council mission (and certainly not a patch the goddamn bomb disposals...). I've played it twice and while the second time was almost laughably easy due to knowing exactly where the aliens would be, even the first time it wasn't a problem (5 soldiers, might've had carapace, ballistic weapons, no MECs), just use the standard XCOM tactics: be very very careful, overwatch everyone every turn unless you've had to shoot things, cover your movement with squadsight sniper on top of the buildings, make heavy (pun intended) use of explosives and when you get to the survivor only move him small amounts on the way back to prevent triggering multiple reinforcement spawns.

It's the way back that's a problem. However slowly you move the survivor, you get two spawns on the first turn, three on the second, and two on the third, and they mostly don't spawn in sniper-friendly places (as well as spreading out too much for explosives). The mission is in early April, at which point you aren't guaranteed to have a squadsight sniper at all because soldiers promote a lot more slowly in EW. Any alien that survives its drop is likely to head for ground level in its first turn of movement, where it can easily flank the survivor because the ruined buildings have exposed interiors.

En route you can also trigger a couple of the aliens - particularly the one at the back of the map - when they're too far away to easily hit (and well outside explosive range) and that alien particularly can hide behind the vehicle, where he's quite difficult to dislodge. Of course you also can't avoid triggering the 3 central Thin Men together (at least, you can trigger the one on the roof first, but he'll instantly move out of sight so he'll still be alive when the other two activate), and being faced with two Thin Men at close range with low-level soldiers will usually mean some fatalities - I got round that one with a flamethrower, for which I obviously needed a MEC.

The one thin man that spawned behind me on the way back was a little suprise, but an overwatching heavy made short work of him.

Which takes a bit of luck unless your heavy has better-than-average aim. I had my overwatching Support to deal with that Thin Man; his shooting dealt 3 damage and he went down next turn. To keep the Support alive I had to run the MEC back to deal the final point of damage before he bled out (since as per usual for Council missions you have to kill all aliens to win the mission).

 

[sherbz]

Marathon always was harder than the standard game, due to the longer research times and wound recovery, and higher costs. The trick with Marathon is that, unlike standard mode, you have to build laboratories and take scientist reward missions as priorities.



It's the way back that's a problem. However slowly you move the survivor, you get two spawns on the first turn, three on the second, and two on the third, and they mostly don't spawn in sniper-friendly places (as well as spreading out too much for explosives). The mission is in early April, at which point you aren't guaranteed to have a squadsight sniper at all because soldiers promote a lot more slowly in EW. Any alien that survives its drop is likely to head for ground level in its first turn of movement, where it can easily flank the survivor because the ruined buildings have exposed interiors.

En route you can also trigger a couple of the aliens - particularly the one at the back of the map - when they're too far away to easily hit (and well outside explosive range) and that alien particularly can hide behind the vehicle, where he's quite difficult to dislodge. Of course you also can't avoid triggering the 3 central Thin Men together (at least, you can trigger the one on the roof first, but he'll instantly move out of sight so he'll still be alive when the other two activate), and being faced with two Thin Men at close range with low-level soldiers will usually mean some fatalities - I got round that one with a flamethrower, for which I obviously needed a MEC.



Which takes a bit of luck unless your heavy has better-than-average aim. I had my overwatching Support to deal with that Thin Man; his shooting dealt 3 damage and he went down next turn. To keep the Support alive I had to run the MEC back to deal the final point of damage before he bled out (since as per usual for Council missions you have to kill all aliens to win the mission).

Basically this.

Its the map layout and spawn pattern thast the problem. It would have been more balanced to have the first slingshot mission, then have portent, because the first slingshot mission is far far easier. Even if that means Portent at the end of April, thats infinitely better than the start because as phil says, at least then you are more likely to have a squadsight sniper and/or mech. At the start makes things dicey.

 

[PhilBowles]

Basically this.

Its the map layout and spawn pattern thast the problem. It would have been more balanced to have the first slingshot mission, then have portent, because the first slingshot mission is far far easier. Even if that means Portent at the end of April, thats infinitely better than the start because as phil says, at least then you are more likely to have a squadsight sniper and/or mech. At the start makes things dicey.

Since it doesn't appear to advance the timing of the EXALT storyline in any way, it would also be thematically better-placed later in April, as setup for the first EXALT encounter in May.

 

[PhroX]

It's the way back that's a problem. However slowly you move the survivor, you get two spawns on the first turn, three on the second, and two on the third, and they mostly don't spawn in sniper-friendly places (as well as spreading out too much for explosives). The mission is in early April, at which point you aren't guaranteed to have a squadsight sniper at all because soldiers promote a lot more slowly in EW. Any alien that survives its drop is likely to head for ground level in its first turn of movement, where it can easily flank the survivor because the ruined buildings have exposed interiors.

I'm pretty sure that you don't face that many aliens just for reaching the survivor. I certainly don't remember ever getting 3 at once, nor three successive turns of spawning. I think your moving him too much and hitting spawn triggers. And by "too much" I mean "at all". Trigger him with the entire team on overwatch and leave him where he is. Kill the first lot that spawn. Reload and OW again. Edge him forward a few squares a turn and repeat. Standard XCOM extraction mission tactics.

For a alien to survive its drop it has to last through both a full team's overwatch and another turn of fire. Not impossible but unlikely.

En route you can also trigger a couple of the aliens - particularly the one at the back of the map - when they're too far away to easily hit (and well outside explosive range) and that alien particularly can hide behind the vehicle, where he's quite difficult to dislodge. Of course you also can't avoid triggering the 3 central Thin Men together (at least, you can trigger the one on the roof first, but he'll instantly move out of sight so he'll still be alive when the other two activate), and being faced with two Thin Men at close range with low-level soldiers will usually mean some fatalities - I got round that one with a flamethrower, for which I obviously needed a MEC.

Not if you play it carefully - your troops should be well ahead of the survivor and therefore when he triggers the spawns (again, this is standard XCOM tactics for things like the Van Doorn (or whatever his name is) mission), you should be close enough to kill them with relative ease. Sure, it's much easier knowing where the spawns are going to be, but even on my first play of Portent I could make a reasonable guess.

Which takes a bit of luck unless your heavy has better-than-average aim. I had my overwatching Support to deal with that Thin Man; his shooting dealt 3 damage and he went down next turn. To keep the Support alive I had to run the MEC back to deal the final point of damage before he bled out (since as per usual for Council missions you have to kill all aliens to win the mission).

And if that heavy hadn't killed him, I had my team in hard cover ready to shoot him next turn. He'd've gotten of a max of one shot which, even for a TM was not likely to hit. As soon as I saw that one had appeared behind, I stopped and didnt trigger any more spawns until it was dead.

OK, I'll admit I've played this game a lot and therefore knew about things like not moving the guy. I guess this would be tough for a new player but, well, thats what low difficulties and save scumming is for (hey, I did it on my first playthrough )

 

[Pikkis]

Marathon always was harder than the standard game, due to the longer research times and wound recovery, and higher costs. The trick with Marathon is that, unlike standard mode, you have to build laboratories and take scientist reward missions as priorities.

I played a full Classic/Marathon/Ironman game back in EU so I did have an idea what to expect. It seems, however, that Classic/Marathon has upped in difficulty more than plain Classic. Went back to playing plain Classic (with other Second Wave options, though) in EW now.

I'm pretty sure that you don't face that many aliens just for reaching the survivor. I certainly don't remember ever getting 3 at once, nor three successive turns of spawning. I think your moving him too much and hitting spawn triggers. And by "too much" I mean "at all". Trigger him with the entire team on overwatch and leave him where he is. Kill the first lot that spawn. Reload and OW again. Edge him forward a few squares a turn and repeat. Standard XCOM extraction mission tactics.

Yes, definitely there are only single and double drops in that map. But I hold that given the complexity of the map and the deadliness of Thin Men at that point in the game, it can well be a disastrous mission if you have neither MECs, nor Squad Size I. At least your best soldiers ought to be out of the infirmary in that case.

 

[PhilBowles]

I'm pretty sure that you don't face that many aliens just for reaching the survivor. I certainly don't remember ever getting 3 at once, nor three successive turns of spawning. I think your moving him too much and hitting spawn triggers. And by "too much" I mean "at all".

You have to move him at some point to complete the mission, and there's no point at all in reaching him, not moving him, and overwatching him - you shouldn't be activating him at all while any of the starting spawns are still alive, and nothing will drop that you can shoot if you don't move him.

For a alien to survive its drop it has to last through both a full team's overwatch and another turn of fire. Not impossible but unlikely.

Only if the full team can see it, and it drops alone (which it doesn't). Four squad members and 2-3 drops is not particularly good odds for killing every alien off the bat, especially at a point in the game when you're using low-level squad members with typically poor stats, and since they drop on overwatch you can't move into good positions to flank (if you move far enough forward to flank them or get the close range bonus in anticipation of the drop, you just trigger extra spawns).

Not if you play it carefully - your troops should be well ahead of the survivor and therefore when he triggers the spawns (again, this is standard XCOM tactics for things like the Van Doorn (or whatever his name is) mission), you should be close enough to kill them with relative ease.

It's not the survivor's progress that triggers spawns, I don't think - if it's like the other extraction missions the drops are triggered by any character (either VIP or soldier) moving over a trigger point. Van Doorn is an almost completely open map, except for the low-elevation blind spot - it's a very different situation from this one.

And if that heavy hadn't killed him, I had my team in hard cover ready to shoot him next turn. He'd've gotten of a max of one shot which, even for a TM was not likely to hit.

Your Thin Men are apparently less accurate than the ones I'm used to... Especially since there's not a lot of hard cover in areas where you have a realistic chance of shooting him - a station on the roof tends to mean half cover at best.

As soon as I saw that one had appeared behind, I stopped and didnt trigger any more spawns until it was dead.

I've had him spawn on the same turn as the two on the roof ahead, so don't have that luxury.

OK, I'll admit I've played this game a lot and therefore knew about things like not moving the guy. I guess this would be tough for a new player but, well, thats what low difficulties and save scumming is for (hey, I did it on my first playthrough )

I don't think anyone commenting here on the difficulty of Portent is a new player. I've beaten Impossible in vanilla (after numerous attempts, it has to be said), and am playing EW on Classic. Note also that I'm using all the vanilla Second Wave options available at the start of the game (Damage Roulette, Hidden Potential and Not Created Equal, and New Economy. None of the opening EW SW options appeals), and the fact that my soldiers are rarely causing enough damage to kill on a successful hit makes your estimates of squad success (such as killing all spawns before they have a chance to move) wide of the mark.

 

[PhroX]

You have to move him at some point to complete the mission, and there's no point at all in reaching him, not moving him, and overwatching him - you shouldn't be activating him at all while any of the starting spawns are still alive, and nothing will drop that you can shoot if you don't move him.

I thought the first drop occurs upon activating him. Maybe its when he gets to the first building. Either way, don't move him much until you've cleared the first drop and reloaded and re-overwatched.

Only if the full team can see it, and it drops alone (which it doesn't). Four squad members and 2-3 drops is not particularly good odds for killing every alien off the bat, especially at a point in the game when you're using low-level squad members with typically poor stats, and since they drop on overwatch you can't move into good positions to flank (if you move far enough forward to flank them or get the close range bonus in anticipation of the drop, you just trigger extra spawns).

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I rarely have aliens appearing where I can't get at least 2-3 of my people hitting them, and they don't usually survive two turns of that kind of firepower. I did get the OTS pretty early and picked up the 1st squad size increase, and I think I might even have had 3 heavies by then (certainly did on my second run through) - two shots a turn and rockets are amazing for clearing missions like this.

It's not the survivor's progress that triggers spawns, I don't think - if it's like the other extraction missions the drops are triggered by any character (either VIP or soldier) moving over a trigger point. Van Doorn is an almost completely open map, except for the low-elevation blind spot - it's a very different situation from this one.

I'm pretty certain it is the survivor that triggers spawns. On the Van Doorn mission you can preposition your soldiers as much as you like, move them all over the map, but the aliens don't appear until he gets to certain points (roughly the top of the ramp above where he starts for the first reinforcements), and from my two plays of Portent the behavior seems the same.

Your Thin Men are apparently less accurate than the ones I'm used to... Especially since there's not a lot of hard cover in areas where you have a realistic chance of shooting him - a station on the roof tends to mean half cover at best.

TM is 80% to hit base IIRC -40% for hard cover and thats less than half. Not something to bet on maybe, but a decent bit of protection, particularly as even if he hits, it's unlikely to kill a carapace armoured heavy.

I've had him spawn on the same turn as the two on the roof ahead, so don't have that luxury.

There was at least one ahead at the same time - which I killed, then positioned my troops to deal with the one behind when he tried to catch up. Well, second time round, I prepositioned someone to kill him when he spawned

I don't think anyone commenting here on the difficulty of Portent is a new player. I've beaten Impossible in vanilla (after numerous attempts, it has to be said), and am playing EW on Classic. Note also that I'm using all the vanilla Second Wave options available at the start of the game (Damage Roulette, Hidden Potential and Not Created Equal, and New Economy. None of the opening EW SW options appeals), and the fact that my soldiers are rarely causing enough damage to kill on a successful hit makes your estimates of squad success (such as killing all spawns before they have a chance to move) wide of the mark.

I don't have damage roulette, but I do have the other 3 of those on. Maybe that's why I'm not having trouble - NCE means I only use soldiers with at least 70 if not 75+ aim to start with unless I'm desperately short of numbers.

 

[PhilBowles]

Yeah, the Exalt clues are rather varied....I even got one that was wrong - "They're in a nation you can play in Civ 5" and yet the UK was still a valid location (well, I suppose they might be playable in some scenario?)....

I got this clue, but I think it meant to say "can't play in Civ 5" since all the excluded countries are missing from the game:

Though even if it did mean "can't play" it's wrong, since Mexico is still an allowable country - hint at a Mexican DLC civ, perhaps, or do they count the Aztecs and/or Maya as the modern country?

 

[Sonereal]

They usually roll the Aztecs into Mexico.

To be honest, I don't like the clue system I've heard of so far. It is way too meta for my tastes.

 

[PhilBowles]

They usually roll the Aztecs into Mexico.

To be honest, I don't like the clue system I've heard of so far. It is way too meta for my tastes.

I quite like the variety in clues, but I don't like the way it's structured. Clues will always exclude X countries; there are no 'positive' clues that allow you to estimate which of the remaining countries are more likely than others. And the clues themselves are just flavour - the system automatically excludes inappropriate countries for you. So there really isn't any actual detective work involved, it's just a matter of running missions until you've excluded all but one country.

Plus the clues are a bit bizarre when you try relating them to the in-game justification that they're intelligence gathered by your agents. Did they come across a terminal playing Civ V and decide that EXALT was using it to plan their next move?

 

[Pikkis]

To be honest, I don't like the clue system I've heard of so far. It is way too meta for my tastes.

Plus the clues are a bit bizarre when you try relating them to the in-game justification that they're intelligence gathered by your agents. Did they come across a terminal playing Civ V and decide that EXALT was using it to plan their next move?

I agree. I'd rather have a system with, let's say,

P(one country excluded) = 0.25,
P(two countries excluded) = 0.5,
P(three countries excluded) = 0.25,

and no meta-clues at all. It's not the most immersing of games anyway, but meta definitely doesn't help that.

 

[sherbz]

Well i just got flattened in the base defence mission. Thats a real on CI! You get hit with 3 cyber disks, plus a whole load of other nonsense, and you dont even get to equip your squad, and only have like 3/4 vets. As mine were all Colonel, none of them were equpiied with the right weapons because i never take them on missions once they max out because there isnt much point.

I think this part needs to be rethought. At least you dont insta die though. I get to replay. Still though, thats bull .

I have found with EW there are loads of missions which are fine, and then 1 or two which are just not fair. I dont mind hard, but unfair just pisses me off.

 

[GoodGame]

wow DLC with product placement

 

[Pikkis]

Well i just got flattened in the base defence mission. Thats a real on CI! You get hit with 3 cyber disks, plus a whole load of other nonsense, and you dont even get to equip your squad, and only have like 3/4 vets. As mine were all Colonel, none of them were equpiied with the right weapons because i never take them on missions once they max out because there isnt much point.

I think this part needs to be rethought. At least you dont insta die though. I get to replay. Still though, thats bull .

I have found with EW there are loads of missions which are fine, and then 1 or two which are just not fair. I dont mind hard, but unfair just pisses me off.

I agree that it would be better if the game equipped the base defenders properly regardless of whether they were on the last mission or not. In my first completed EW game I happened to have everyone with correct equipment; in my current game I make sure it's so because 'Ashes and Temples' will come sooner or later.

I don't fully understand why you would leave all your Colonels home though. In my experience, having 2-3 (or sometimes more) Colonels often saves lives (especially if they are Snipers), and Temple Ship Assault alone is not that big part of the game's difficulty (should a Colonel die).

 

[sherbz]

I agree that it would be better if the game equipped the base defenders properly regardless of whether they were on the last mission or not. In my first completed EW game I happened to have everyone with correct equipment; in my current game I make sure it's so because 'Ashes and Temples' will come sooner or later.

I don't fully understand why you would leave all your Colonels home though. In my experience, having 2-3 (or sometimes more) Colonels often saves lives (especially if they are Snipers), and Temple Ship Assault alone is not that big part of the game's difficulty (should a Colonel die).

The difference between a colonel and a lieutenant is not much IMO. Especially at a point in the game when its ok to skip a few vets in favour of blooding a few rookies/more junior troops. I try to have at least 2 vets of each class in case something happens to one of them. In this case though, 2 of my vets were in the gene lab and had only just returned so didnt have any equipment at all. You just dont do enough damage with conventional weapons against cyber disks.

Im just going to replay the mission, and if i sustain too many casualties, im just going to kill myself until i get the right result. This is not the mark of great level design IMO.

 

[PhroX]

The difference between a colonel and a lieutenant is not much IMO.

Depends on the class. Colonel snipers are hugely powerful compared to earlier levels thanks to their top tier abilities. Other classes possibly less so, but even then, gaining the extra aim can make a big difference.

In my current game, I bring 2 colonels on every mission (sniper and heavy) - trying to get the achievement for 1 soldier coming on ever mission - and they've pulled my ass out of the fire on several occarions when I wouldn't have trusted a lower level soldier.

Especially at a point in the game when its ok to skip a few vets in favour of blooding a few rookies/more junior troops. I try to have at least 2 vets of each class in case something happens to one of them. In this case though, 2 of my vets were in the gene lab and had only just returned so didnt have any equipment at all. You just dont do enough damage with conventional weapons against cyber disks.

Im just going to replay the mission, and if i sustain too many casualties, im just going to kill myself until i get the right result. This is not the mark of great level design IMO.

I do agree with the equipment thing. It isn't great design - I was lucky in that I'd read about it and ensured my guys all had good equipment when possible even though not on missions, but even then one of my top 6 ended up "naked" as he'd just been injured (and ended up dead...).

The mission itself though is great. Some crazy moments in there. The start with 5 mechtoids. Desperately hiding my troops on the balconies and hoping that the three 'disks didn't try to rush me at once - two did, but fortunately I had three heavies with HEAT among my troops and I was just able to bring them down. Sectoid commanders popping up and mind controlling my best guy...Really, this is XCOM at it's most fun, particularly as the aliens are controlling the pace of the mission.

Anyway, I've just played the second progeny mission (the dam), and it was laughably easy - even had 4 turns left by the time I finished. Don't think even a single alien got to shoot

 

[Pikkis]

The mission itself though is great. Some crazy moments in there. The start with 5 mechtoids. Desperately hiding my troops on the balconies and hoping that the three 'disks didn't try to rush me at once - two did, but fortunately I had three heavies with HEAT among my troops and I was just able to bring them down. Sectoid commanders popping up and mind controlling my best guy...Really, this is XCOM at it's most fun, particularly as the aliens are controlling the pace of the mission.

It is a great mission. It and the Newfoundland mission are my favorite ones from the expansion, though I like the Progeny ones a lot too.

Anyway, I've just played the second progeny mission (the dam), and it was laughably easy - even had 4 turns left by the time I finished. Don't think even a single alien got to shoot

The game seems to treat council mission weirdly at times. Progeny (parts 2 & 3) of course has things that require it to be somewhat late in the game, but it comes very, very late, while Progeny pt. 1 (Portent) comes unnecessarily early. In my previous game I could have entered the final mission before Progeny pt. 3 finally came around.

In my current game I had a very weird council mission of 12 Sectoids at a time when all my soldiers had plasma weaponry etc. Also, there has been no sign of the Newfoundland one this time although I'm close to Overseer phase already.

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I noticed that the 'Absolutely Critical' Second Wave option gives +50% crit bonus also to Kinetic Strike and Flamethrower that normally wouldn't be able to crit at all. Most likely a bug.