In the last days, after the Referendum idea which shook up the entire EU (and the world) many has been written about Greece. Some positive (such as the latest article in the front page of the french newspaper Liberation) most negative. This thread is an attempt to provide some background to what is going on currently, and the daedalus-inspired machinations in greek politics.
A few key dates in the history of Greece should be noted.
-The first one, without a doubt, has to be 1204. The fourth crusade destroying the Byzantine Empire, effectively ending a millenium-old existence and the last time a Greek civlization or state was the frontrunner in Europe.
-The second date is 1453, the final destruction of the empire, and the start of more than 300 years of slavery to a foreign power, moreover one non-european and not compatible with Greece.
-The third is 1830, the formation of the new Greek state. It has to be noted that the three main political parties were called "The English party", "The French party" and "The Russian party". Even that alone would spell out just how independent this state was, from the beginning.
-The fourth is 1922. The disastrous defeat in the Greek-Turkish war. Much has been written about it, but it is significant that here the consensus (either from people who actually read history, or those who don't; the latter obviously being the majority) is that Greece was betrayed, first by Italy, then by France and the Soviet union. Worth noting that the french pm at the time even insisted that Greece does not annex even eastern Thrace. In 1922 effectively the megale idea ended, and with it ended the collective hope that Greece as a state would once again be a major European power.
-The fifth is 1940. The "Ochi" (greek for No) of pm Ioannes Metaxas to the Italian embassador, when the latter asked for Greece's capitulation to Italy. It is written that the crowds enlisted with joy and enthusiasm to go fight the Italians in Epirus, and then in norther Epirus and Albania, with noted success. It is often argued that the reason for such enthusiasm is that the ordinary people saw this war as an opportunity to erase the 1922 development. And indeed in a way they did, if it was not for:
-The sixth, being 1946. The end of ww2 saw Greece openly asking for territorial gains to be granted to it in reward for its part on the winner's side. Apart from the italian held islands in the dodecanese though nothing was given, and instead a civil war was triggered. Some have claimed this happened exactly so that the territorial redistribution would be erased as an idea.
In these 6 dates i tried to sum up the basic sense that the average person in Greece has about the other European powers, particularly the major ones. You may have read that 70% of the public want to keep the Euro as a currency. This probably is due to despair, since by now it is obvious that leaving the Euro would be utter ruin as things have developed. Skepticism against the EU would have been a lot more pronounced if it was not counter-balanced by massively bigger skepticism and downright antipathy for local politics and politicians.
To put it concisely, the average greek person (and Greeks are as a percentage of the population of the world the most populous emigrating students, and student diaspora in the EU and elsewhere) is dismissive of the idea that the rest of Europe means to help. But he is even more dismissive of greek politicians. This leads to a dangerous balance, and breeds corruption (after all one is more prone to make corrupt deals with someone he does not respect at all).
Is there a solution?
Yes, in my view there is. Surely it is not Greece being kicked out of the Euro currency. Lets not forget that the greek debt is only 3% of the total Euro GNP, in other words it could have easily have been erased if things were different in the zone.
I think that this latest crisis has made greek politics die. They have to be reborn, and this time be extremely different from the dead ones. What would have been ideal would be to have a european-wide discussion (not screams and hostility) as to how to help, both Greece and other euro countries in crisis. The steps taken up to now clearly are insufficient.
As for me i am beginning to be more optimistic. Not just because "there is only a way up from here", but mostly due to the fact that the population seems to have waken up, even those who made deals with corruption (and they are of the past generations, not my own) now must be seeing what this lead to. So i am optimistic about the future of Greece. Perhaps it can serve to make the Eurozone bond stronger, and this time to have to be based on actual philadelphia (friendship of one's siblings) and not one-sided interests, vague ambitions, and unrealistic idealism.
A few key dates in the history of Greece should be noted.
-The first one, without a doubt, has to be 1204. The fourth crusade destroying the Byzantine Empire, effectively ending a millenium-old existence and the last time a Greek civlization or state was the frontrunner in Europe.
-The second date is 1453, the final destruction of the empire, and the start of more than 300 years of slavery to a foreign power, moreover one non-european and not compatible with Greece.
-The third is 1830, the formation of the new Greek state. It has to be noted that the three main political parties were called "The English party", "The French party" and "The Russian party". Even that alone would spell out just how independent this state was, from the beginning.
-The fourth is 1922. The disastrous defeat in the Greek-Turkish war. Much has been written about it, but it is significant that here the consensus (either from people who actually read history, or those who don't; the latter obviously being the majority) is that Greece was betrayed, first by Italy, then by France and the Soviet union. Worth noting that the french pm at the time even insisted that Greece does not annex even eastern Thrace. In 1922 effectively the megale idea ended, and with it ended the collective hope that Greece as a state would once again be a major European power.
-The fifth is 1940. The "Ochi" (greek for No) of pm Ioannes Metaxas to the Italian embassador, when the latter asked for Greece's capitulation to Italy. It is written that the crowds enlisted with joy and enthusiasm to go fight the Italians in Epirus, and then in norther Epirus and Albania, with noted success. It is often argued that the reason for such enthusiasm is that the ordinary people saw this war as an opportunity to erase the 1922 development. And indeed in a way they did, if it was not for:
-The sixth, being 1946. The end of ww2 saw Greece openly asking for territorial gains to be granted to it in reward for its part on the winner's side. Apart from the italian held islands in the dodecanese though nothing was given, and instead a civil war was triggered. Some have claimed this happened exactly so that the territorial redistribution would be erased as an idea.
In these 6 dates i tried to sum up the basic sense that the average person in Greece has about the other European powers, particularly the major ones. You may have read that 70% of the public want to keep the Euro as a currency. This probably is due to despair, since by now it is obvious that leaving the Euro would be utter ruin as things have developed. Skepticism against the EU would have been a lot more pronounced if it was not counter-balanced by massively bigger skepticism and downright antipathy for local politics and politicians.
To put it concisely, the average greek person (and Greeks are as a percentage of the population of the world the most populous emigrating students, and student diaspora in the EU and elsewhere) is dismissive of the idea that the rest of Europe means to help. But he is even more dismissive of greek politicians. This leads to a dangerous balance, and breeds corruption (after all one is more prone to make corrupt deals with someone he does not respect at all).
Is there a solution?
Yes, in my view there is. Surely it is not Greece being kicked out of the Euro currency. Lets not forget that the greek debt is only 3% of the total Euro GNP, in other words it could have easily have been erased if things were different in the zone.
I think that this latest crisis has made greek politics die. They have to be reborn, and this time be extremely different from the dead ones. What would have been ideal would be to have a european-wide discussion (not screams and hostility) as to how to help, both Greece and other euro countries in crisis. The steps taken up to now clearly are insufficient.
As for me i am beginning to be more optimistic. Not just because "there is only a way up from here", but mostly due to the fact that the population seems to have waken up, even those who made deals with corruption (and they are of the past generations, not my own) now must be seeing what this lead to. So i am optimistic about the future of Greece. Perhaps it can serve to make the Eurozone bond stronger, and this time to have to be based on actual philadelphia (friendship of one's siblings) and not one-sided interests, vague ambitions, and unrealistic idealism.
