UNGY-01 Another spy attempt

Rusten: I did mean to skip working the spec in the capital as it's not that food rich. Not sure if it's correct. GSpy for SY in capital naturally.

I think we should prioritize getting drama this set--we really need to get going on the Globe. We're going to need to expand and it's going to have to be a draft army--likely starting with muskets.

I agree with disbanding some units--my weed not to have done so.
 
GR8Scott: Thanks for the analysis. I think the cost of the tech we stole might have been considerably more than 10% less with the huge EP stockpile from the infiltration.

You were getting a 32% discount for espionage spending. In my SY games, my recollection is a discount in the range of 20% (you are still significantly outspending the AI on EPs). That is why I used a 10% difference, but you are right it could be more. However, in my analysis with SY, you had double the points compared to what you used.

As pointed out, the early war slowed our stealing down a lot as well.

I get a chuckle out of this because it points out my bias. I viewed the early war as something that slowed down the cottaging of the capital and the building up of economy wide EPs. I almost mentioned it as a factor in favor of SY! You are right that it slowed down the stealing effort as well. I'm not sure the net effect.

GS
 
Rusten: I did mean to skip working the spec in the capital as it's not that food rich. Not sure if it's correct. GSpy for SY in capital naturally.

I think we should prioritize getting drama this set--we really need to get going on the Globe. We're going to need to expand and it's going to have to be a draft army--likely starting with muskets.

I agree with disbanding some units--my weed not to have done so.

Agree with the drafting plan and I'll fire that spy specialist as well, that way London can mature another cottage instead.

Will squeeze my set in tomorrow sometime (a lot to do cuz of easter), expect the report up at least within 24 hours, probably a lot less.
 
Agree with the drafting plan and I'll fire that spy specialist as well, that way London can mature another cottage instead.
Just to double check--we're talking about firing the spec after we pop the GSpy.
 
You were getting a 32% discount for espionage spending. In my SY games, my recollection is a discount in the range of 20% (you are still significantly outspending the AI on EPs). That is why I used a 10% difference, but you are right it could be more.
I think the difference in actual cost ends up being substantially more--the total discount ends up being something like 50% instead of 60%. So the cost ends up being 50% instead of 40%, or a 25% increase in cost.
 
Just to double check--we're talking about firing the spec after we pop the GSpy.
Of course :)

My report won’t be as fulfilling as I had hoped because the event log stopped working….
To be more precise, my game crashes if I try opening it, this has never happened to me before. WTH is up with that? Is someone using a mod making it crash for the rest of us or something? Now I can’t go back and check dates/details, so sorry for the lack of info. I’m fine with people not playing well because it’s fixable by a killer set, but this kinda stuff really annoys me, I use that event log a lot. I usually play my turns first and then write afterwards, so without the log to check events it gets much harder.

I hope the log is still working for you guys otherwise we’ve got a problem. I have no idea what caused this. I tried opening the event log with a different game too, and that worked perfectly.

1200 AD -> 1300 AD

We should discuss where to put our Globe Theatre. I strongly suggest the city west of London (Warwick). Reason being that it has two resources with 6 food each in addition to a lot of coast/sea and not much inland (most of it plains). Shutting down its economy won't matter much empire-wise and it will regrow quickly. I also started irrigating northwards towards the corn, please continue with that. It would've been easier to take the 1 grassland tile north-east, but it had already matured a cottage for some reason, so I left it.

Alemanni would also be able to regrow quickly, but that city is great for production, so I’d rather let it be as big as possible (HE anyone? We even have marble so should be quick to finish)

Techs stolen: aesthetics -> drama -> -> philosophy -> machinery -> guilds

We should also make sure to keep our eyes open for Printing Press and Banking, both essential techs for us. The Khmer actually finished researching banking, so I suggest we make that a priority the coming 10 turns. Run 100% espionage for as long as possible too, it’s better to get gold after we make our UB.

First turns were nothing special. No spies having discount yet so I mostly MM cities. I noticed a lot of our cities were working coastal tiles; I personally think that's a bit of a waste at this point as they never improve and then won’t make for a long-term investment unlike cottages, at least when cheap superb infrastructure is lacking (such as +2 hammer temples). With this in mind I whipped a lot of infrastructure as happiness was not an issue in the cities working coastal tiles. The cities which were working/maturing cottages I let be for now.

So hmm… what happened… *try to remember*

I Stole Drama as planned and got very good deals for it.

ungy+1200+AD+%2350000.JPG


ungy+1200+AD+%2360000.JPG



The gold allows a 100% slider now before we get our UB and helps leverage our SY too. I had also been running 0% espionage the turns before our great spy. Mansa Musa made peace with Ragnar and Monty is still warring with the Khmer.

I founded a city east of London taking the irrigated Wheat. As we already had that settler completed and idling I saw no reason not to put a city there, it will easily pay for itself and more. It can also speed up cottages for York.

Our economy is strong right now. We have doubled +/- our EP/t--much due to bureaucracy. It was in the low two-hundreds, now it's closing in on 500.


PS: Did I go blind or did they remove the upload option from the forum? I can't see it anywhere. Uploaded the save to an external site, probably going to delete it in some days, so be quick to grab it.

http://illegalt.net/replays/ungy-01%20AD-1300.CivBeyondSwordSave

Guess it goes to pigswill then as shyuhe is having probs (good luck with that dude).

Edit: Nevermind that PS, I just found the announcement.
 
I think the difference in actual cost ends up being substantially more--the total discount ends up being something like 50% instead of 60%. So the cost ends up being 50% instead of 40%, or a 25% increase in cost.

Each factor is multiplied seperately, so a 32% discount vs. a 20% discount would be the difference between a .68 and a .8 multiple. The net result is you need to up the cost by 17.6% not 12%.

After playing a number of games, I think the rule of thumb should be:

Emperor ==> SY
Immortal ==> close call
Deity ==> Infiltrate

The biggest swing factor is the tech rate of the AI. With deity, the espionage you can get from SY just can't keep up. Also with Deity, CoL is usually available when you get alpha, so you can use your infiltration points to steal that and work on getting a quick second Gspy for your SY.

GS
 
Somebody is playing with BUG. It kills the game log unfortunately (for non-BUG users).

Are we going to draft redcoats (eventually) to take down Monty? I imagine once we do, we'll be able to get at least an SS victory with the land that we'll have (although it'll be tight since we'll never have a tech lead).
 
Got it.

Steal banking for stock exchanges, pinch pp when available, these should give us prereqs for RP which opens up rifling with gunpowder. Start Globe in hi food city. Survive (at least no-one's pi**ed with us atm).
 
Somebody is playing with BUG. It kills the game log unfortunately (for non-BUG users).
Seems you're right -> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6563987&postcount=104 :mad:
Are we going to draft redcoats (eventually) to take down Monty? I imagine once we do, we'll be able to get at least an SS victory with the land that we'll have (although it'll be tight since we'll never have a tech lead).
Redcoats sound like a great unit for us given no tech advantage.

Given Monty's score I assume he's expanded quite a lot on the islands we see west of him, so if he try to finish him we should be ready for accepting a capitulation after wiping him off our continent. If we get a vassal on a different landmass we can go for mercantilism and still make a lot of commerce from trade routes. The situation right now isn't too hot, we've open borders with everyone and they're getting trade from our cities. But managing this kinda stuff requires precise decisions and very hard to handle as a team/sg, so we should just forget about it and aim for vassal+mercantilism instead.

pigswill said:
Steal banking for stock exchanges, pinch pp when available, these should give us prereqs for RP which opens up rifling with gunpowder. Start Globe in hi food city. Survive (at least no-one's pi**ed with us atm).
If you see anyone start reseaching it send a spy there right away. Also keep an eye out for constitution, we could use those jails.
 
My computer is back online. Thank goodness I didn't toss out my old power supply unit. Now I have to go see if Best Buy will give me an exchange. Ungy - can you slide me back into the roster somewhere?
 
My computer is back online. Thank goodness I didn't toss out my old power supply unit. Now I have to go see if Best Buy will give me an exchange. Ungy - can you slide me back into the roster somewhere?
that's good to hear. How about coming in after Pigswill?

Roster:
Ungy
Rusten--just played
Pigswill--UP
Shuyhe--On deck
Mystyfly
Morganknight
 
Got it.

Steal banking for stock exchanges, pinch pp when available, these should give us prereqs for RP which opens up rifling with gunpowder. Start Globe in hi food city. Survive (at least no-one's pi**ed with us atm).
I'd also try and get lit to open up HE.
get any gunpowder pre-reqs.
 
Played 10 turns.

Getting late to write a report, will write it tomorrow evening.

If you're impatient here's the save:
 
Woke up early so here's a report.

T0. 1300.
Looking good, no tweaks needing tweaking that I can see. <enter>.

T1. 1310.
Sitting Bulls asks us to cancel deals with Ragnar. Decline.
Mansa offers us dye for fish, seriously tempted but he's our neighbours' worst enemy so reluctantly decline.
Maybe a wise move. AP resolution: stop trading with Mansa. Abstain.
Qin builds Sankore Uni.

T2 1320.
Sury offers us war with Monte. Decline.
AP resolution passes (Monte, Qin and Sury say yes). No trading with Mansa.
Two spies arrive in Nagoya.

T3. 1330.
A spy in Nagoya is rumbled, the other ain't.
York starts walls.
Alemanni starts theatre.
Spy in Chengdu steals banking.
Spy in Chengdu steals engineering.
Spy in Huangzhou fails his mission!
Spy in Tianjin steals literature.
Monte has nationalism and is researching printing press. Allocate more eps to Monte and fewer to Sury.
Spy arrives in Tianjin.

T4. 1340.
Nottingham finishes aqueduct, starts Heroic Epic (deciding factor was settled MI).

T5. 1350.
London aqueduct > stock exchange.
Coventry something> stock exchange.
Alemanni something >stock exchange.
Sell guilds to Monte for 410g (only one who don't have it, we could do with the cash and diplo rip-off bonus).
Cancel ivory to Ragnar for 7gpt.
Swop to ivory to Ragnar for bananas (heathy food, yum).
Spy arrives in Chengdu.

T6. 1360.
Newcastle granary > rax.

T7. 1370.
Spy in Nagora steals calendar.
Spy arrives in Hari...
Versailles bidl.
Monte builds spiral minaret.

T8. 1380.
Ragnar dow Mansa.
Spy arrives in Nagora.
Spy arrives in Aztacaculpo (sic).


T9. 1390.
Warwick forge > theatre (for Globe).
Spy in Tianjin steals compass.
Spy arrives in Texcoco.

T10. 1400.
London stock exchange > walls (for castle).

Diplo relations:
Monte +8 -2 = +6.
Sury +13 -3 = +10.
Qin +11 -2 = + 9.

Spies:
Chengdu 1 turn to go.
Hari... 2 turns to go.
Nagora 4 turns to go.
Aztaca 4 turns to go.
Texcoco 5 turns to go.

u4c0000.jpg


u4d0000.jpg


:sad: move. Need paper before printing press. We can pinch paper from Qin at Chengdu next turn.

Save in post above.
 
I'm back.

Very sorry about BUG-mod, team. Don't know why I didn't unload it... :mischief:

Seems this game hasn't been a good one for me so far. I definitely hope I'll make up for it somehow...


5 techs / 10 turns is nice. But we definitely need Paper > PP and later rifling for protection and possibly a crusade against Monty? Redcoats are incredibely strong and Monty can't be @ RP yet (as he lacks Banking) so we might be able to compete vs him and conquer enought land so we can be confident on winning via space. We should start building Trebs then.
 
got it. The only problem about rifling is that the AI tends to ignore it until after SM which is a pain. However if an AI is at war, they're much more likely to research rifling. We may have to just go to war against Monty with equal technology units. I'll try to send a scout through his territory to figure out what he has.

Also, I think running nationalism for a prolonged period may be useful in this game since the bureau bonus isn't as powerful for us this game. Am I nuts?
 
You made the HE without marble. t_t
Seems we're still exporting it to the Khmer since turn 80 or something. We should've cancelled that deal and replaced it with something else quite some time ago, the marble is too good to give away, but I forgot about it.

I think Alemanni would be better for our HE, but Nottingham is good too, a decent pick (due to the MI).

- Warwick is running an engineer specialist instead of a spy (probably got automated that way).

Other than that HE without marble, very good turns! :goodjob:

shyuhe: I didn't sit down and do any maths, but SY+bureaucracy is not to be underestimated. Nationalism will be very good when we get more Scotland Yards up and running, but as of yet I don't think it will benefit us. At least not enough to sacrifice a full turn going into revolt. But we'll go there for rifling and drafting soon enough anyway.

PS: Remember to get a plantation for the York sugar the coming 10 turns. That's riverside sugar, meaning we'll get 4 food and 3(!) commerce.
 
I was building eps v Monte specifically to pinch nat and pp. Once we've got those then maybe dial back eps v Monte and refocus on Sury; iirc we've still got an embedded Gspy there which will help pick up other techs (and due to no tech trading we have to steal everything).

Edit: Totally forgot we had marble and didn't notice it when looking through the active trades. Oops :eek:.
 
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