UNGY6 The health nuts

[Dirk1302]

Despite her current research Bess is a non factor, Izz got most of the land there. Bess always peters out after Lib. Personally i'd go SM (we'll lose the GL anyway somewhere soon) from here and directly to physics/bio/electricity/medicine/fission/eco. The order depends on circumstances meaning physics race, Sushi etc...I'd detour through radio if we have a chance to get our hands on the valuable redentor.

We can certainly trade for nat.I'd prebuild some knights and i'd only self research MT if someone who can declare on us gets to wheoorhn, then upgrade some units. But i think they'll kill each other.

 

[Duckweed]

Well, I have very little experience to deal with backward tech situation after ~1000AD. Obviously, bulbing Edu is a waste and Astro would be the best choice for now. After that I suggest stop tech and accumulate some cash for a few turns. It is pretty hard to pick the optimal tech path. I would prefer to beeline to Communism and build Kre with double bulb of SM. Don't know whether liz will prioritize SM.

 

[Dirk1302]

I agree with the idea of accumulating cash after astro. We just don't have the funds to research 100% nonstop atm so this must be a good plan.

SM is one of the first techs the ai researches/trades. OK if we're first we can trade it ourselves but generally i don't like bulbing this tech. I usually research to something like rifles/steampower or whatever and trade back once i don't have a monopoly on that tech anymore.

Here it might be a good idea especially if we can subsequently win the race for communism, only one gs really invested in that case. So let's keep it open as an option if Bess doesn't have it yet.
Especially if we've saved cash we can win the race. We'll need PP for SM. Hope to get it in trade somehow, we'll see.

 

[ungy]

OK-I agree we're looking good--once we clear the continent we can cottage spam and our economy will rock.

Tech to astro then break (unless something unexpected happens).

Continue the treb builds just to make sure--clear the north first.

Academies--if we run research at breakeven, Novgorod gets a whopping 15 beakers.
Lisbon has one--it seems a little weird to drop one in Novgorod. So I need a little clarity here.

Also do we take conf? Weigh in on this one please.

 

[ungy]

P.S. - eventually give something to kubbie. 60g or so should be enough to bump him to pleased. I don't know what's everyone's opinion on this(I give them 40g no matter what when we meet, but, not knowing what you guys think, I didn't toss in drama for that bonus - some say it's cheap, I'm ok with it).

Actually should have mentioned that we discussed this in an earlier game and considered the cash gift on meeting AI exploitive. I'm OK with gifting a tech--that's not a freebie as
1) you have to have one, and
2) you risk taking a -4 with an unknown

So in the future let's avoid that one.

 

[Dirk1302]

For academies Oporto is best candidate now. But NovGorod and Rostov will be quite good in the not so distant future (well probably after demo). Maybe we have even better cities for academies, didn't look too closely. Point is, if we don't have a clear goal with a specific bulb we can as well backtrade for it a bit later. Once we've consolidated our position these academies can easily contribute ~30 bpt, even more later. In my own games i often build quite a few academies and i tend to stop bulbing after chemistry.Also late game academies tend to be more profitable than settled scientists.

About conf, we could certainly use OR and Izzy friendly isn't that bad either. But it would worsen relations with Kublai and Sal, probably also with the unknown seventh civ. Ultimately I wouldn't take conf now, let the others fight their religious battles. I would spread conf for the AP hammers. Maybe in a golden age or with redentor when the others are fighting we can switch to conf.

 

[Dirk1302]

Actually should have mentioned that we discussed this in an earlier game and considered the cash gift on meeting AI exploitive. I'm OK with gifting a tech--that's not a freebie as
1) you have to have one, and
2) you risk taking a -4 with an unknown

So in the future let's avoid that one.

First time i hear that. I don't think giving cash on meeting is exploitive myself. The +4 trade bonus is roughly:

Amount of commerce given (gold or beakers) / turns you know this civ.

For that reason even giving a small amount of gold gets a civ you now know for 1 turn to +4 but this bonus evaporates very fast if you don't throw him/her some bones later. So the only real exploit imo might be that you can trade tech/maps in that short time.

But i have no problem with not giving gold and getting the bonus with really fair trade.

 

[Duckweed]

I think we can choose the way to win at this point. I incline for a domination win or domination-based diplomatic win. Space win would be slow without hammers boost buildings before Ecology. If we go for domination route, then the only choice of GS is to bulb. How many turns will an academy need to generate enough beakers to match a bulb? I only build academy in capital and occasionally Oxford city.

Kre is much more important in this game. We should try to get it. So save GS for now and prepare to bulb SM when the bulb is open and no one has it.

I vote to convert to Confu.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

Actually should have mentioned that we discussed this in an earlier game and considered the cash gift on meeting AI exploitive. I'm OK with gifting a tech

I've just worded poorly; what I meant is that I didn't give him anything exactly because I didn't know what's the stance on it(and I forgot to ask tbh).

I'd convert to confu. Kubbie will give us -2 in the end I think(we ain't founder, he ain't founder, we're far from each other). Sal. won't exactly love us, but izzy is closer.

I'd acad. and go space simply because I hate the logistic time sink of oversea invasion. But not at all strong on this one. And frankly I don't know how much lack of factories will affect since, needless to say, I don't know the prereqs for eco(it's always the last I research).

 

[ungy]

sorry got jammed up will play tomorrow night.
I'm thinking save the GS--even if we decide to academy we won't have lost too much by waiting--we don't have a compelling place to put it.

We're probably going to meet the last AI in a few turns here--so I'm thinking wait just a bit on the conversion as that might influence us but otherwise go ahead and get religion.

 

[ungy]

err make that Mon

 

[ungy]

A frustrating set with a crash at the end that wiped out my report--so this is a brief version (maybe better anyway).

I leave the builds the same, I keep the GS for future use. Move on Guimaries--it falls with heavy losses--2cat, 3axe, 2HA, 1XB --Joao had a bunch of units up there.

We complete a quest!

didn't know we had it

That gives us 4 mace.

By the end of the set all except Bess are in merc and all except Sal have astro.

Sal is almost to astro--he won't even trade us music

On the last turn we meet the remaining AI--as expected we've got the -4 traded with my enemy:

As he's Sal's worst enemy I don't gift him paper to get relations up.

I do trade him some resources tho.

On my last turn I cancel the dye for $ trade with Iz and unfortunately instead of a better one I get no trade. So look for this one.

Unfortunately my recommendation to go for astro didn't work out too well.

We're starting to slip behind a bit so I think we need to plan our research carefully.

We have a second GS and we also popped a GG which I think we should settle in HE city--we should decide that.

Note: Joao has an XB in our territory--it's been there a while.

 

[Duckweed]

I suggest to focus on population grow for now.
Set the research to Edu. After capturing the next Joao's city, make peace with him without vessalling him. Try to trade with Joao for Edu. Leave Joao alive with one city, he is a decent trade partner.

 

[ungy]

I suggest to focus on population grow for now.
Set the research to Edu. After capturing the next Joao's city, make peace with him without vessalling him. Try to trade with Joao for Edu. Leave Joao alive with one city, he is a decent trade partner.

He may give us edu for peace, but we razed a city so we're -5 with him after peace.
Our only tech is astro, so we can't easily gift to him.
If he vassals to someone else, they'll give him tech which is a good thing if we can regain relations--we'll get 2 trades if we can get something to trade.
Culture is no problem--we'll lose a couple of happy which I think we can handle.
His last city is really pretty marginal anyway--it's hard to imagine we'll get to use all those trade routes anyway so I guess I don't see too much downside.

Want to take the next set?

 

[Dirk1302]

We have a forge in Moscow?!
Bad luck on astro. Others being in merc hits us hard here. We'll need to get to demo so we can fast grow cottages, we're miles away from it however. Indeed we should focus on growth now so we can run specialists.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

we had a quest?

guess we'll be at -6 if we eat a -1 close border; leaving him alive is weird - for 1-2 techs we'll have unhappiness in 5 cities. On the other hand, if he vassals, we'll increase ai tension. Still, I'd kill him.

we need to give something to brennus. He's definitely pleased with kubbie, so it'll be a pick between us, sally and izzy(and bess, but probably with izzy always > bess), none bordering him. Also, currently we ain't lonely heart with J on the same landmass. Ok, that's without loading the save, so I don't know if he met izzy. Actually, I don't remember very well what was happening when you are LH and the ai ain't... Or even better, we should wait till everyone meets everyone, if they didn't already.

dirk, what do you mean by forge in moscow?

who won lib.?

 

[Dirk1302]

Look at the save, a Forge has been built in Moscow, there's also one in production in another city.I guess Ungy forgot about the rule for a moment. Guess we have to deal with that unless it's only completed some 2 turns ago and Ungy has a save, then we can replay those turns.

Else i suggest finishing the other Forge until 1 turn from completion and then let all the hammers decay as punishment, a protest from our healthy people who refuse to build such hideous buildings in the future.

I'd kill Joao too, we'll be behind for a long time now but i still think we'll catch up eventually with all the good land we've got. Once we've grown a bit and we have built the AP buildings we can run quite a few specialists and we could convert production to wealth if we're beelining something
ineteresting.

if we go Confu Sal will hate us anyway so i'm also in favor of giving something to Brennus. I was too optimistic last time, i forgot about merc, still those ais won't be teching fast for some time as well. I really figured Astro would net us Edu and Nat, now we've got neither.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

delete it in wb?

anyway, we can bulb on the sci. meth line if we want some fodder

 

[Dirk1302]

Ah ok, i never mess with wb but that would be best. We'll need PP for the SM bulb, it's not sure if we're in time to trade SM away profitably. SM will hurt us (GL and monasteries). It's on the route to ecology though. The tech i'd really like to have is Demo but i don't think a beeline to it makes any sense right now.

 

[ungy]

A FORGE????

What was that last guy smoking?

I replayed the last 2 turns as little was going on--and to make myself feel less stupid I gave us a temple instead (using most of the lost hammers).

A new save:


I guess I'm for finishing Joao.