Unique Abilities discussion

[Shadow717]

I'm a little worried about the Carthaginian's mountain movement ability. I understand there needs to be some penalty to it, but -50hp seems really harsh, to the point that it will never be useful. Of course we will have t wait and see how it plays out, but I would think -25hp would work better, and allow sneak attacks over mountains to be a viable strategy rather than a suicide charge.

I realize that the free Harbors are th ebig part of their UA not the mountain crossing.

and actually I have a question about that too. What is a "free harbor"? Does a city founded on the coast start with a harbor, or does it only mean that once a harbor is built it has no maintainence?

 

[tofofnts]

I'm a little worried about the Carthaginian's mountain movement ability. I understand there needs to be some penalty to it, but -50hp seems really harsh, to the point that it will never be useful. Of course we will have t wait and see how it plays out, but I would think -25hp would work better, and allow sneak attacks over mountains to be a viable strategy rather than a suicide charge.

50 dmg only happens if you end your turn on a mountain

 

[Shadow717]

50 dmg only happens if you end your turn on a mountain

True but how many units will be able to get through a mountain in one turn? I doubt even knights could deal with the movement cost, leading me to believe until we see fast units like lancers come about the only unit that has chance of getting through in one turn is a horseman. I can't imagine the terrain cost would be less than rough terrain like hills, and truthfully I expect it to 3 movement points cost.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't think they will pay a rough terrain cost for moving across mountains. So even a 2 movement warrior can cross a single mountain in one turn. The penalty exists to keep the player from using a mountain as a melee-resistant base to attack enemies.

Something I am wondering: can you build Citidels on mountain tiles?

 

[Shadow717]

If there is no movement penalty on mountains then yeah -50Hp is no problem, I would just imagine there is a movement cost. As for a citadel on a mountain, very interesting idea. I imagine no, even if only because nothing can be built on a mountain tile, but I hope yes =p

 

[AbbieRevo]

Maybe the idea is that you will have to take the penalty if you wanna cross the mountain.

So you still get the bonus of being able to attack from an unexpected direction, but not too quickly, because you'll have to take a bit to rest up your dudes.

 

[smallfish]

If there is no movement penalty on mountains then yeah -50Hp is no problem, I would just imagine there is a movement cost. As for a citadel on a mountain, very interesting idea. I imagine no, even if only because nothing can be built on a mountain tile, but I hope yes =p

Imagine you have a string of mountains between you and Korea

Imagine in the near lategame, you can build forts on the mountains his borders haven't yet touched, and base a crapload of artilleries in range of his capital. And if forts can protect those arty from damage...

 

[CYZ]

Even with the movement penalty it would not be a bad UA. You can use it to go around an enemy army, which is all dug in a chokepoint, and just go around. Yeah, you´ll need time to heal once you get outof the mountains, but it only makes sense. If you manage to get a few units through, they can hold off the enemy while other units heal and more reinforcements slip through.

Especially with those empires protected by long mountain ranges, this will be perfect for suprising them again and again.

 

[bonafide11]

Plus, Carthage getting free harbors in all of their cities seems awfully useful as well.

 

[Nyanko]

Plus, Carthage getting free harbors in all of their cities seems awfully useful as well.

Thats the real bounus of Carthage; the mountian bit is just a little extra

 

[shaglio]

Imagine you have a string of mountains between you and Korea

Imagine in the near lategame, you can build forts on the mountains his borders haven't yet touched, and base a crapload of artilleries in range of his capital. And if forts can protect those arty from damage...

I've never build a fort, but I imagine it takes more than 1 turn, in which case your worker would be dead by turn 2 after taking 50hp damage twice.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Workers don't have HP, do they?

It's also worth pointing out, since there appears to be a misconception, that you can build forts in enemy territory.

 

[MadDjinn]

Workers don't have HP, do they?

It's also worth pointing out, since there appears to be a misconception, that you can build forts in enemy territory.

they do. If you range attack a worker, it'll appear.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Oh right, I forgot about that. I had the AI terraform me while at war once and I only had a city to kill them with (couldn't capture). I guess it comes up so rarely that I forgot.

 

[Stefanskantine]

The mountain movement seems very situational, or really just for fun against ai. I can't really recall a time where an ai had me completely blocked off by a chokepoint that I couldn't get around by a peace treaty of convenience in advance of my attack. Against a human player the ability to attack from an unforseen direction potentially gets a bit more interesting.

 

[CYZ]

The mountain movement seems very situational, or really just for fun against ai. I can't really recall a time where an ai had me completely blocked off by a chokepoint that I couldn't get around by a peace treaty of convenience in advance of my attack. Against a human player the ability to attack from an unforseen direction potentially gets a bit more interesting.

It's totally hit and miss. And certainly more of the second than the first.

But some mapscripts do provide long thin mountainranges with just a few single tiles to go through. It'd be extremely usefull to hit a civ on the other side in such a case. But that's very rare and I doubt needed against the AI.

Against a human however. They are much more likely to keep a small army if they're on such a location, and that leaves them very weak against Carthage. Then again, a human realizes this

 

[GenjiKhan]

If ai finally learns how to place Citadels and Forts to protect Choke points,which is something they never do,then this ability of Carthage can be very powerful . I've only played MP once,but it seems that if players also use Citadels to protect their cities from invasions,then this ability gets even more useful in MP .

 

[Stefanskantine]

I just had an idea regarding the mountain crossing. Buff the ability a bit, perhaps by lowering the damage to 10-25%. But then make it so the only time it can be used is when the Carthaginian units are within the radius of a Great General (representing Hannibal of course).

 

[animalguy]

I think the Carthaginian UA could be very useful for scouting, especially on fractal maps as once you have spawned a GG your scouts could cross those thin mountain ranges that form to essentially split a continent in two. Now I admit that these formations are rare but when they do form Carthage will be able to scout faster than other civs (I only whish the inca would be able to do this with their workers counsidering their start bias)

 

[CYZ]

I just had an idea regarding the mountain crossing. Buff the ability a bit, perhaps by lowering the damage to 10-25%. But then make it so the only time it can be used is when the Carthaginian units are within the radius of a Great General (representing Hannibal of course).

If the damage is lowered it seems only fair that the movement penalty for rough terrain is applied.