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Unique Ability Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by crawf0rd, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. crawf0rd

    crawf0rd The One and Only

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 20
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 21
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 22
    Druidic Lore 20
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 19
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 20
    Ancien Regime 20
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 20
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 9
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 21
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 20
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 21
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 20
    River Warlord 20

    heheh... ooops. Added River Warlord.
     
  2. Art Grin

    Art Grin Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,746
    Location:
    Germany
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 21
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 22
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 19
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 20
    Ancien Regime 20
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 20
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 9
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 21
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 20
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 21
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 20
    River Warlord 20

    Diplomatic Marriage: Very nice ability, lets you expand without fighting wars and gives you a nicely build up city with and army most of the time.
    Druidic Lore: I just don't find it to be all that great to have +1 faith from unimproved forests.

    P.S.: It seems Diplomatic Marriage got downvoted once and nobody noticed.
     
  3. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    691
    Location:
    Vitória, Brazil
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19 (-2)
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23 (+1)
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 19
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 20
    Ancien Regime 20
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 20
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 9
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 21
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 20
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 21
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 20
    River Warlord 20

    Ingenuity just won't add up to that many more GS over a game than any other civ. Getting them earlier is nice, and tech makes the world go round, but it just doesn't make the cut in my book.

    Maybe it has a lot to do with my play style, but I normally expand along the coast anyway, building roads to inland cities from nearby coastal cities, just because harbors are such efficient buildings for trade routes. Getting them for free is massive.
     
  4. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 19
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 20
    Ancien Regime 20
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18 (-2) Was overwhelming in Vanilla, but doesn't do too much in G+K. Religion really took the wind out of Greece's sails.
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 9
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 21
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 20
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 21
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21 (+1) Love it, love it, love it. Maybe the most versatile ability. By midgame you can have +150% Great person generation!!!!! Plus, 90 culture is HUGE and easily worth a lackluster great person (e.g. 3rd admiral, 5th general, great merchant, unwanted great prophet...).
    River Warlord 20
     
  5. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,181
    My post from yesterday wasn't counted just correcting

    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 20
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 20
    Ancien Regime 20
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18 (-2) Was overwhelming in Vanilla, but doesn't do too much in G+K. Religion really took the wind out of Greece's sails.
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 7
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 21
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 20
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 21
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21 (+1) Love it, love it, love it. Maybe the most versatile ability. By midgame you can have +150% Great person generation!!!!! Plus, 90 culture is HUGE and easily worth a lackluster great person (e.g. 3rd admiral, 5th general, great merchant, unwanted great prophet...).
    River Warlord 20
     
  6. Awsome Sause

    Awsome Sause Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 20
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 20
    Ancien Regime 20
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 5
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 21
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 20
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 22
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21
    River Warlord 20

    Population Growth : happiness is not much of a problem in G&K especially when going tall.

    The Glory of Rome: really helps those new cities become productive faster.
     
  7. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,960
    Location:
    Québec
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 20
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 20
    Ancien Regime 21
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 3
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 21
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 20
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 22
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21
    River Warlord 20

    Population Growth : Bashing continue...i mean the next UA going off the list after this one is at least 3x better :D

    Ancient Regime : The ole fast culture civ is always one of the best. Finish that tree ASAP!
     
  8. Crafty Bison

    Crafty Bison King

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    756
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 20
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 18
    Ancien Regime 21
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 3
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 21
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 21
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 22
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21
    River Warlord 20

    Adwa: Excluding high level early rushes, this UA is not only negative and backward looking but, worse, 100% at odds with the Stele UB, which is the best part of the civ.

    Archaemenid: All of this bonus is amazing, but my absolute favorite (apart from all the gold you'll be swimming in and the more powerful units and better production and culture for longer) part is the increased movement, which is really, really useful for warmongers (a.k.a me), and is also really fun.
     
  9. JetStream

    JetStream Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Philippines
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 20
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 18
    Ancien Regime 21
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth 1
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 22
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 21
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 22
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21
    River Warlord 20

    Dutch East India Company (+1): The skill gives you the option to expand faster than any civ which will, in turn, be helping you gain more production/lux/resources/gold without stunting your population growth.

    Population Growth (-2): G&K made this UA useless. it will be hard to think of anything to say that will give this ability a nod above all the other abilities.
     
  10. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 20
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 18
    Ancien Regime 21
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    Population Growth -1 (bye)
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 22
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 21
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 23
    Siberian Riches 20
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21
    River Warlord 20

    The glory of Rome: The +25% bonus is huge and really makes Roman cities develop quickly. Also suits the style of Rome.

    population growth: this UA contradicts itself. The use of happiness is allowing you to expand or conquer, but population growth doesn't allow this. Population growth is just ridiculous.
     
  11. crawf0rd

    crawf0rd The One and Only

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 20 (-1)
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 23
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 20
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 18
    Ancien Regime 21
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 22
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 21
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 23
    Siberian Riches 22 (+2)
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21
    River Warlord 20

    (I hope I am allowed to vote in my own thread)

    Trade Caravans: I never really expand much, and if you really think about it, each city gives 1 additional gold. 1. So if you have a wide empire, with say, 15 cities, thats 15 additional gold. Sure, oil is useful, but not enough to make this UA a mediocre one.

    Siberian Riches: You can get more Strategic Resources, for either your own use or to trade away. Then you get additional production from these, for the lolz I guess.
     
  12. black213

    black213 Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,487
    I would say the opposite. In G&K as Greece it's possible to have no influence drop with City-States whatsoever.
     
  13. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    691
    Location:
    Vitória, Brazil
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 24 (+1)
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 18 (-2)
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 18
    Ancien Regime 21
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 22
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 21
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 23
    Siberian Riches 21
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 20
    Nobel Prize 21
    River Warlord 20

    Free...trade...routes. Not every trade route will be free, of course, but the fact that coastal cities will be connected, without cost or hammer investment, is insane.

    Viking Fury, meh. Not impressive now and where everyone else sees a buff coming I see a potential problem. There are only so many improvements, so you won't want one unit taking down everything, least of all on one turn. Most of the time you'll be pillaging and attacking an adjacent unit anyway, so still not good, pre or post patch.

    Corrected the above vote. I'd say it's ok to vote in your own thread, but you can't trade downvote power for upvote power ;)
     
  14. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    True... Greece can hold City States indefinitely with religion. But ALL civs got better with CSs via religion. Greece isn't that unique anymore. Plus, completing quests is the name of the game now, especially early. Nothing says Greece will hold onto its CS when another player pops a great artist or kills some barbs nearby.
     
  15. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    691
    Location:
    Vitória, Brazil
    No other civ got the extra drop in CS influence loss that Greece did. Going to 0 is massive. It means that with continual investment even close to what other civs have to make, Greece can build up enough influence to lock other civs out of coups.

    With or without religion, Greece gets more for doing CS quests. While Greece and someone else might both complete two quests quickly, leading Greece to losing ally status for some time, the other civ will see his influence drop more quickly, leaving Greece as the ally soon enough. Even as just friends, Greece will end up keeping those bonuses for longer without any investment. That can actually be big early on, when you might complete quests without wanting or being able to invest gold. The longer friend status lasts, the more you get out of doing that quest. Greece's UA works on CS's that are only at Friends, as well, they do not need to be Allies.
     
  16. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 24
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 18
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 18
    Ancien Regime 21
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 21
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 22
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 21
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 23
    Siberian Riches 21
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 18 (-2) With Spain, its all-or-nothing. Find a high quality natural wonder (Fountain of Youth, Mt. Sinai, Cerro Potosi...) near your capital and you've got a massive head start. Don't find much nearby, or don't find El Dorado in the first 40 turns, and you're just a regular civ. I don't like UA's that depend on luck.
    Nobel Prize 22 (+1) Fantastic, flexible UA. Fight the good fight with Sweden and you'll have great generals and admirals to burn all game long. I'll vote this up again because I'm sure that the "I never give great people away when I play" downvotes are right around the corner...
    River Warlord 20
     
  17. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Unless I'm mistaken, the only way to do this is by getting a religion that has the slower influence loss with religiously alligned CSs (Papal Primacy?), and then getting them to follow your religion, and preventing other religions from taking over majority status.

    So this means forgoing the much more powerful enhancers, and even worse, having to face them yourself.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and Greece's UA is awesome now, but I guess we won't know until the final standings are decided!
     
  18. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,968
    Manifest Destiny 16
    Trade Caravans 21
    Diplomatic Marriage 19
    Sacrificial Captives 20
    Ingenuity 19
    Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
    Phoenician Heritage 24
    Druidic Lore 18
    Art of War 21
    Viking Fury 18
    Monument Builders 20
    Sun Never Sets 21
    Spirit of Adwa 16 (-2)
    Ancien Regime 21
    Furor Teutonicus 17
    Hellenic League 18
    Scourge of God 20
    Great Andean Road 22 (+1)
    The Great Warpath 18
    Bushido 20
    Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
    The Long Count 21
    Mongol Terror 18
    Dutch East India Company 22
    Barbary Corsairs 20
    Achaemenid Legacy 21
    Wayfinding 20
    The Glory of Rome 23
    Siberian Riches 21
    Father Governs Children 20
    Seven Cities of Gold 18
    Nobel Prize 22
    River Warlord 20

    The Great Andean Road is simply awesome. There is nothing like starting in a 90% hill continent or Pangaea, and getting not only massive tactical advantages over your other opponents but also free roads between cities and perhaps even future conquests. Allows you to field an even larger army as result and keep in economic shape with your Immortal neighbors at the same time.

    Now Ethiopia is one of my fav new civs, but as someone once put it, their UA doesn't really synergize with their expansionistic-minded UB. Perhaps this patch will change, perhaps not, but currently it isn't well complemented.
     
  19. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    691
    Location:
    Vitória, Brazil
    As far as I know, there is no belief of any kind that slows influence loss of CS's. Them simply having your religion is enough. Papal Primacy gives a +15 resting point, which, due to the slow loss of influence isn't all that great for Greece (however I always take it as Siam). There is another that makes is spread to non-enemy CS's at double the rate, as an enhancer, but other enhancers are likely better for maintaining your religion in a CS.

    Now, getting all the CS's on the same page can be an issue. The AI does love to send missionaries and prophets to CS's. You can offset it to some extent by giving tons of units to CS's. Since they rarely leave their boarders, it can clog up the way. I'm not sure if they'll keep an inquisitor in their city, use it to get rid of 1 pop of another religion, or just instantly delete it, but if they keep it, that could be an option (anyone know?) or one could just declare war on fanatical civs. Only a few civs seek to actively spread their religion, and taking an inquisitor to their holy city is generally a major blow for them (even better if you do that, get peace, and use a prophet on their other cities, they'll spend the rest of the game on themselves and not be able to think of CS's.
     
  20. crawf0rd

    crawf0rd The One and Only

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Sorry about that, it was early, I was tired, and my brain wasn't thinking. It is -2 and +1, not the other way around :p
     

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