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Unique Improvement Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Gyra Solune, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Brazilwood Camp - 11- Saving Jungles will cripple movement and keep food/production low for keeping around.

    Chateau - 20

    Feitoria - 22

    Kasbah - 21

    Polder - 18

    Terrace Farm - 25- Awesome for growth in Incan cities.
     
  2. cpm4001

    cpm4001 Goggleman

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
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    1,989
    Location:
    Not here
    Just because the Inca have a Hills start bias, in the games I've played I've very rarely had a start where my capital could actually use Terrace Farms to any degree of efficiency. Yes, sure, you can build 'em on every hill, but a Terrace Farm on a hill with no mountain next to it nets a total of 2 food and 2 hammers, or three if it's next to a river post-Civil Service. That's okay, but doing that sacrifices between 1 and 2 Production. Even with two mountains next to the hill, you're getting 5 food 2 hammers (and you'll often have to wait to the Industrial Era with Fertilizer to get up to even that yield.) 9 times of 10, you'll have to wait until your second and/or third cities to efficiently utilize the Incan UI.
    The Polders on the other hand start off in the same boat as the Terrace Farm. Yes, it's pretty rare to have a start where the Dutch can immediately take advantage of their UI. But here's the deal: Maybe you have to search a tad more to find Flood Plains, but I find Marshes pretty frequently, even with a Grasslands start bias. And when you do find tiles you can build Polders on, they're usually in "clumps." And, oh yeah, since no one else wants to settle near Marshes, there's way less competition for those city locations. So once you get your city founded, you can start adding +3 food to all of those worthless tiles. Suddenly a city with, say, 3 Marsh tiles around it gets 12 food from those tiles. That's impressive
    Now here's more. Yes, you have to tech Guilds to unlock the Polders - but now that that unlocks the Artist's Guild, it suddenly isn't so crappy. And yes, you have to wait until the Renaissance before you get that Production and Gold boost from the Polders, and yes, it's only 1 Production. But it's also 2 Gold, a major, major bonus in BNW now that Gold's much more rare. 5 Food 1 Production 2 Gold > 5 Food 2 Production (Gold is king.)
    Also, I don't understand the argument that the Terrace Farm synergizes well with the Incan UA. Is it because you can move a Worker to a Hill and Terrace Farm it the same turn? That synergizes like the Moai and the Polynesian UA. It's not bad, but it isn't good, either.
    I'm not saying the Terrace Farm is an awful improvement - it most assuredly isn't. But totally and in every respect better than Polders? Eh, I dunno...
     
  3. TreYs

    TreYs Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    69
    Brazilwood Camp - 11

    Chateau - 20

    Feitoria - 22

    Kasbah - 18 I don't see the benefit behind this, other than the defense bonus. It takes a worthless tile and makes it into a mediocre hybrid tile.

    Polder - 18

    Terrace Farm - 26 Makes mountains even more valuable, especially since settling near one grants the observatory.
     
  4. Sake

    Sake Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    Brazilwood Camp - 11

    Chateau - 20

    Feitoria - 22

    Kasbah - 19 - Combine this with desert folklore and Petra and you have desert hills with 2 food, 4 hammers, 1 faith and 1 gold. It even helps with defense, and ties perfectly with berber cavalry. Rifles can sit in kasbah fortified, when berbers cover their flanks with 75% bonus on home desert. Deserts are much more common than marsh.

    Polder - 15 - Good, but situational

    Terrace Farm - 26
     
  5. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,179
    I love all tile improvements, which makes it difficult to down vote any.

    Brazilwood Camp - 11

    Chateau - 20

    Feitoria - 19

    Kasbah - 20

    Polder - 15

    Terrace Farm - 26

    Yes, Kasbah is for hills and possibly flood plains, not regular desert tiles. You get roughly the same amount of hammers/food along with gold and 50% defense. Basically a mine, farm, trading post, and fort all in one improvement. Desert Folklore and Petra on top of it, and you have some super tiles.

    For down vote I had to go with Feitoria. CS's can be conquered (speaking of which, what happens if you have a Feitoria up and the CS gets conquered? do you keep bonus?). A lot of CS's end up having the same 2 or 3 luxuries which means the happiness bonus is limited. You can spend a lot of time just moving to all the CS's to get Feitoria up, where as other TI's you can do immediately in your own territory. It just isn't as solid as the others (except for perhaps the situational Polder)
     
  6. pthmix

    pthmix Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    154
    It is just my personal experience that Incan starts are generally more UI-friendly than Dutch starts. And if the start looks bad I do the following: I usually move my warrior first and then decide wether or not to move my settler. More often than not my warrior then sees some mountains (remember, mountains often peak out of the fog) and I can move my settler to a better position.

    Yes, Polders are good after Economics. But before that they are not that hot. Marsh polders are easily replaced by river-/lake-side farms and flood plains polders are only 1 :c5food: better than a farm. Terrace Farms are better early because you can get a 3 :c5food: 2 :c5production: tile (free deer) with just two mountains after construction. CiV is all about snowballing and this early food bonus helps with that.

    I find mountains pretty frequently and when I do find them, they're usually in "clumps". It also works the other way around ;). I've never noticed that other Civs shun marsh-heavy areas. I'll have to look out for this more. Yes, your 3-marsh-city can get 12 food with polders. The only problem with this is that it is quite rare to get 3 marshes in your first ring and if they aren't you will have to spend a fortune to buy these tiles. Marshes are just so expensive to buy and the cultural border expansion mechanism hates them. I just checked this with IGE and yes, the expansion mechanism prefers hills over marshes.

    The Artist's Guild is crappy unless you get Sistine Chapel or Cathedrals because there is only one slot available in the palace. And going Acoustics -> Architecture to make use of your artists delays Economics. The problem I have with the gold bonus is that it comes too late. In the Renaissance I usually don't have gold problems. What I do have are production problems because there are just so many things to build. If gold is king than production is god.

    The Terrace Farm synergizes with the Incan UA because you want your cities in hilly regions to make as much use of your maintenance-free roads and your mobility advantage (Hey Shaka, you are attacking my city in the hills? Bad move!) as possible. And where do you find hilly regions? Near mountains of course!
     
  7. vibe96

    vibe96 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    264
    Brazilwood Camp - 12

    Chateau - 20

    Feitoria - 16

    Kasbah - 20

    Polder - 15

    Terrace Farm - 26
     
  8. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Brazilwood Camp - 9- Culture boost has no help in culture victory and saving for camps make Brazilian cities have horrible production

    Chateau - 20

    Feitoria - 17- Resources for little effort.

    Kasbah - 20

    Polder - 15

    Terrace Farm - 26
     
  9. georgie

    georgie Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    137
    Brazilwood Camp - 9

    Chateau - 21 - Gives gold in a game in which it can be lacking, and culture which synergizes with France's UA.

    Feitoria - 17

    Kasbah - 20

    Polder - 12 - Too situational for me in most games.

    Terrace Farm - 26
     
  10. georgie

    georgie Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    137
    I picked a bad green color.... Sorry.
     
  11. TreYs

    TreYs Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    69
    Brazilwood Camp - 6 The culture bonus seems nice, but if I had to improve my jungle tiles, I would prefer TPs with the University and Free Thought policy.

    Chateau - 21

    Feitoria - 18 Basically allows you to get happiness without spending gold to get CS allies.

    Kasbah - 20

    Polder - 12

    Terrace Farm - 26
     
  12. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
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    2,379
    Brazilwood Camp - 7 (6+1)

    Chateau - 21

    Feitoria - 18

    Kasbah - 17


    Polder - 12

    Terrace Farm - 26

    +1 to Brazilwood Camp. Beyond amazing with sacred path and university, makes cultural victory much easier, and is fitting.

    -3 to Kasbah. Such an overrated UI! After Fertilizer, it gives a whole +1 gold more over a farm. Petty ammount considering how late it arrives. Doesn't make regular desert really worth using, only a slight improvement over +2 food farm while it comes very late.
     
  13. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Brazilwood Camp - 4 Keeping jungles that long will make your cities horrible.

    Chateau - 21

    Feitoria - 18

    Kasbah - 17

    Polder - 13- If used well, this improvement is amazing

    Terrace Farm - 26
     
  14. pozz

    pozz Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    106
    Brazilwood Camp - 1 Comes too late for it to be truly worthwhile.

    Chateau - 21

    Feitoria - 18

    Kasbah - 17

    Polder - 13

    Terrace Farm - 27 Amazing food generation while maintaining high production, makes you wish all your lots were hills :D
     
  15. Nickbonista

    Nickbonista Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Gateshead, UK
    Brazilwood Camp - 0 Putting it out of it's misery, as people have said, comes too late to help, and if you keep jungle around your capital it will hurt growth and development. Yes, sacred path + universities is good, but growth is too important.

    Chateau - 21

    Feitoria - 18

    Kasbah - 17

    Polder - 13

    Terrace Farm - 28 Map situational to some extent but still can create super tiles for your empire.
     
  16. Petiscator

    Petiscator King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
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    Location:
    Brazil
    I saw some people here saying that the Brazilwood Camp or the Moai aren't very good because they give culture, and culture is useless for Cultural Victories. Erm... Hotels and Airports? With those two buildings, all your cultural tiles could be converted into tourism, which is very helpful (specially if your UA grants you double tourism on GAs).

    I mean, a Brazilwood Camp nets you 2 :c5culture: and 2 :c5gold: , but that's not all: you can enhance those values with the Sacred Path pantheon, a University, Hotels, Airports, the National Visitor's Centre and a Golden Age. With all those bonuses, your jungle tiles would net you 2 :c5food: 3 :c5culture: 3 :c5gold: 2 :c5science: and 12 tourism. Yes, 12 (in the city with the NVC, the others would get 6). All that in one tile. You get 3 culture (2 from improvement, 1 from pantheon), so the Hotels + Airports + NVC turn that into 6 tourism. Because you are on a golden age, your tourism is doubled, so each tile grants you 12 tourism, and that is huuuge because jungles are fairly common, so this beauty can be spammed. Also, Polynesia can also get big tourism bonuses from their Moais, but they are more situational, I guess.
     
  17. pthmix

    pthmix Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
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    Hotels, Airports and the NVC only increase tourism from culture from specific sources (Wonders, Landmarks, Great Works, Brazilwood Camps, Moais, Chateaux according to the tooltip). So having culture from jungles doesn't do anything for your tourism.
     
  18. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Chateau - 21

    Feitoria - 18

    Kasbah - 14- Makes okay tiles, but these tiles still aren't very good. I always seem to spawn 5 tiles or so outside of desert as Morocco.

    Polder - 14- Super Marsh Tiles!

    Terrace Farm - 28
     
  19. BUDISMYBUDDY

    BUDISMYBUDDY Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Chateau- 21

    Feitoria- 18-3=15

    Kasbah-14+1=15

    Polder-14

    Terrace Farm- 28

    Terrace farm is already getting tons of love and they deserve it but I want to keep the Kasbah alive cause they are beast combined with hill and petra.

    Feitoria umm i could do without, i would rather just ally the cs
     
  20. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Maryland
    Chateau- 18 People have been pretty neutral on this so far. It could be good, but the brazilwood camp gave gold and culture and was eliminated pretty early. This is more limited than that improvement was, and pretty similar to it overall. I haven't played BNW France yet, but this looks underwhelming compared to some others.

    Feitoria-16 The formula for Portugal is simple. Build a fleet of workers and Naus in the renaissance, explore the world faster than anyone else can, and build these things everywhere. This is a lot of additional happiness for no cost, and then you can use the money you saved from not having to spend on city states, gained from Naus, and are getting from your newly formed portugese naval trade routes across the ocean (which should have lots of resource diversity now) on whatever you want. Portugal is one of my favorite civs in the game, because everything works so well together, and the Feitoria is part of this synnergy.

    Kasbah-15

    Polder-14

    Terrace Farm- 28
     

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