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Unique Units elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Tabarnak, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Not so. IMO, the appropriate use of Hussars is (1) move one Hussar next to an enemy unit; (2) move a second Hussar next to an enemy unit; (3) attack with both Hussars to get the flanking bonus for both of them; and (4) move both Hussars to safety. Don't forget about their movement and sight bonuses. These extra bonuses do wonders for setting up the attack.
     
  2. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Battering Ram 18
    Camel Archer 25
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 17
    Foreign Legion 11 (-3)
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 10 (+1)
    Hwach'a 5
    Immortal 6
    Jaguar 19
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 36
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    I'll be the lone defender of the Hussars. +50% is no small thing. And even if you ignore that bonus, they're great scouts. If you beeline to dynamite you can create a perfectly awesome fighting force with just Hussars and artillery (you need Military Science to get to Dynamite).

    The Foreign legion is a bland unit that goes obsolete quickly.

    Edit: Hussars will be even better post patch.
     
  3. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Yes. However, gatling guns so dominate warfare in this era, that anyone who doesn't use them right on the front lines to establish zone of control is just asking for a loss. A wall of gatling guns/gatling guns spaced 1 unit apart creates a wall that the Hussars can't jump through. End a turn here and the Gats will chew the Hussar up. Add GW planes to the mix and the Hussar really struggles to make an impact. They oftentimes aren't durable enough to survive using their flank attack.

    Again, I don't think Hussars are bad units. I just think they impact combat in their era less than every other unit on this list.
     
  4. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Two gattling guns are no match for two Hussars, particularly given the gats' range limitations. If you're using your Hussars correctly, the matchup should be 51 versus 36 (not counting other modifiers that go both ways). A Hussar should never be hit by the gat given its movement bonuses and sight bonuses.

    There will always be an edge of your wall. With five movement, I can find that edge before you cover it up.
     
  5. Petiscator

    Petiscator King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    785
    Location:
    Brazil
    Battering Ram 18
    Camel Archer 25
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 18
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 10
    Hwach'a 2
    Immortal 6
    Jaguar 19
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 36
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    Dromon because it is awesome, I already said that

    Hwach'a because if I built a siege unit, I wanna siege, not defend

    ----

    I agree with the Hussars being quite powerful! 3 of these guys together make wonders!
     
  6. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,181
    Battering Ram 18
    Camel Archer 25
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 18
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 10
    Hwach'a 2
    Immortal 6
    Jaguar 20 (+1) These units can be built until metal casting is built. And as the Aztecs you don't need to head to metal casting right away anyways since you tend to want to go tall. The bonuses in jungle make it a quick spam unit that you can use to act like a Spartan and just hold a piece of jungle forever. And their extra warrior strength makes them good units for a tall empire to bully city states for even faster tall growth.
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 36
    Legion 20 (-3). Swordsmen in general are much too weak now. Why build a legion when you could build a ballista now in GK. A decent unit but very little reason to keep it on the list now that the Ballista is gone
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29
     
  7. Crafty Bison

    Crafty Bison King

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    756
    Battering Ram 18
    Camel Archer 25
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 18
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 10
    Hwach'a 0 (Au Revoir)
    Immortal 7
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 36
    Legion 20 Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    Hwach'a - Like the strong slow mounted units - I don't need my UU messing up my armies balance (unless they're keshiks :)). I'm not even gonna comment on the current bug.
    Immortal - Shouldn't go yet. It really is up there for early rushes atm, and for a great early unit is rare in carrying some benefit for later on.

    Question - I haven't played Austria cos of the stupid UA, but the hussar - is it that all flanking modifiers are changed by 50%, or is it that it adds 50% as the flanking modifier for that unit? The second one is 35% stronger (assuming just the one flanker). If it's the former, does it work as both flanker and attacker? If it's the latter, does it stack with other hussars?
     
  8. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    Battering Ram 18
    Camel Archer 25
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 18
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 10
    Immortal 7
    Jaguar 17
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 36
    Legion 21
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    Legion: The life span of legion is very long and they can do well in any sort of war.

    Jaguar: Warrior UU, I don't like it. After adding up the extra combat strength in forests and jungles, it's still weaker than spearmen.
     
  9. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,960
    Location:
    Québec
    Battering Ram 18
    Camel Archer 26
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 18
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 10
    Immortal 4
    Jaguar 17
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 36
    Legion 21
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    Camel Archer : Well rounded unit. Move and attack units always have a reason to live and destroy.

    Immortal : The UA's civ make this unit pretty decent(+1 move under GA) but if i analyze this unit alone it doesn't make any difference unless you build at least 6 of them which is pretty hammer expensive.
     
  10. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,066
    Many UUs to decrement. Immortals are one. Few units to increment. Keshiks are one.
     
  11. Awsome Sause

    Awsome Sause Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Battering Ram 18
    Camel Archer 26
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 10
    Immortal 0
    Jaguar 17
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 37
    Legion 21
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    Dromon: Having the first ranged ship is huge for early warfare.

    Immortal: A good unit but having an army of lancers is the mid to late game isn't very helpful.
     
  12. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,960
    Location:
    Québec
    +1 and -3 for vote now :)

    But it's ok the immortal was going to die anyway. No changes.
     
  13. Petiscator

    Petiscator King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    785
    Location:
    Brazil
    The immortal died. Paradox? lol
     
  14. Wabango

    Wabango Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Canada
    Battering Ram 18
    Camel Archer 26
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 7
    Jaguar 17
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 38
    Legion 21
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    One is the best Unique horse in the game, the other the worst :)
     
  15. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,066
    No argument here. I'd vote again. But it would probably be -3 for immortal.
     
  16. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    Battering Ram 19 (+1)
    Camel Archer 26
    Carolean 25
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 7
    Jaguar 17
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 38
    Legion 18 (-3)
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    Battering Ram literally makes the Huns. (well with a little help from the Horse archers).

    Legions are good, but since pikemen are a substitute and arent too far off in the tech tree, they dont really get a fair chance.
     
  17. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Battering Ram 19
    Camel Archer 26
    Carolean 26 (+1) I've got a soft spot for Sweden, and these guys let you execute Sweden's Optimal strategy perfectly. March lets these guys fight wars a long way from home, staying alive longer to generate excess GGs to gift.
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 11
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 4 (-3) A good, not great UU. When I play against Austria, I never think, "Oh no! Gotta prepare for the Hussars!" Lancers and Gats handle them.
    Jaguar 17
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 38
    Legion 18
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29
     
  18. kamikazees

    kamikazees Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    266
    Battering Ram 19
    Camel Archer 26
    Carolean 26
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 8
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 4
    Jaguar 18
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 38
    Legion 18
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    Jaguar: These guys move like scouts (except across rivers and naked hills) and heal after kills, in addition to having combat bonuses in most rough terrain. An excellent unit.

    Foreign Legion: These are good units, but come too late in the game to really help all that much.
     
  19. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,181
    Battering Ram 19
    Camel Archer 26
    Carolean 26
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 8
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 4
    Jaguar 19 (+1) Its a cheap easy to spam unit. Its promotions allow it to act as a super scout. The 20 heal per kill is a powerful ability that carries over. A spearman upgrade from a ruin also works fine. Jaguars are more defensive units that you build early on to hold terrain and bully city states for more gold to buy more infrastucture/more jaguars for bullying.Janissary 38
    Keshik 38
    Legion 15 (-3) The Legion was meant for war. A sword isn't that great anymore post GK. And with Ballistas being spammable and powerful they make for a better weapon anyways.
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29
     
  20. jacksone7

    jacksone7 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    28
    Battering Ram 19
    Camel Archer 26
    Carolean 26
    Chu-Ko-Nu 34
    Companion Cavalry 22
    Dromon 20 (+1)
    Foreign Legion 8
    Horse Archer 27
    Hussar 4
    Jaguar 19
    Janissary 38
    Keshik 38
    Legion 15
    Longbowman 39
    Minutemen 34
    Mohawk Warrior 20 (-3)
    Sea Beggar 35
    Ship of the Line 29

    I really like the dromon's uniqueness. The mohawk warrior is one of the weaker units on the list. A little situational & it's a swordsman.
     

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