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Unit Design

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Star Wars Mod' started by Civmansam, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. Kissamies

    Kissamies Prince

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    There's some disagreement on that. Cruiser is a very wide category in SW classifications. I think Acc could fit the firigate role for Republic as a recognisable ship while Venator or Victory take the cruiser class.

    I guess you could use more classifications, but basic corvette-frigate-cruiser progression is pretty standard. You just need to classify them by relative size and firepower rather than their official classifications sometimes. Hapes Nova-class battle cruiser seems more like frigate to me, for example.

    offtopic:
    Don't forget the TIE Avenger. To quote Darth Vader on cutscene on TIE Fighter: "Hyperspace capability... impressive."
     
  2. Civmansam

    Civmansam King

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    Yes, that head was actually yours. i'll let you know if I need anything.

    Qdin, how are those Gungans going?
     
  3. DonStamos

    DonStamos Mobster Inc©

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    If they do the expansion in the modular XML form it wouldn't be that hard to just UU everything for flavor. Kinda sucks that it has to be that way, though.

    @Kissimies: I forgot about the Venator. Dunno what I was thinking. I also agree with the classification of the Hapes Nova-class cruiser. I'm trying to remember what they used as corvettes, I want to say the Marauders.

    Pretty much I tried to classify as such:

    Corvette - the smallest capital ships (Corellian Corvettes, Star Galleon)

    Frigate - the next size up, between Corvettes and Cruisers (VSD, Nebulon-B frigates)

    Cruiser - the next largest class of capital ship (ISDs, MC80 Cruisers, Chiss SDs) These would end up being the run-of-the mill capital ships, with smatterings of the two larger classes to bolster attack/defense.

    Battleship - the largest class of capital ship that isn't a national unit. They still come with a hefty price tag, though and perhaps they could give leadership bonuses (just like the Dreadnoughts, there needs to be a reason to build them, just an idea) These would include the Super Star Destroyers and the Mon Calamari Star Defenders, among others.

    Dreadnought - The ultimate capital ships. These are more powerful than any other capital ships but come with a very very hefty price and can only have a limited amount (national units). These include the Eclipse and the Mon Cal Star Defenders. I could also see these giving useful benefits to the fleet units that accompany them (the Eclipse giving an increased attack bonus, the Star Defenders giving increased defense bonuses, for example).

    The biggest problem I see with this is the lack of some factions to have ships that fit the appropriate categories, especially Battleship/Dreadnoughts (such as the Hapans, who could conceivably use the NR/GA equivalent or maybe an 'updated' Battle Dragon, lots of room for improvisation). At least it's a baseline to work from and gets every major ship class a place to fit (with a bit of stretching/squeezing).
     
  4. Kissamies

    Kissamies Prince

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    Well, you need to have a line of "generic" ships. If a civ doesn't have a ship in certain class, it gets a generic ship. I tried to list 1 of those in each category in my list back in the last page. Some of the older Rebel stuff could also be classified generic. I don't think the Hutts would get many unique big ships. The generic line could also be a starting point when you add a new civ. Give it the basic ships and then start to make special ships.

    Victory-class is really a cruiser, but I guess you could call it a frigate if you wanted to. Not sure if Battleship and Dreadnought classes need to be differentiated, but that's my opinion. SSD seems to be most common kind of these huge ships so that might be the generic ship of that category.
     
  5. DonStamos

    DonStamos Mobster Inc©

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    Well I wanted to separate them because the battleship class ships were built much more often than the dreadnought ones but they were still expensive to both build and maintain.

    The dreadnoughts on the other hand, could be limited and provide significant boosts to attack/defense/withdrawal or other benefits. Almost like naval hero units - it really means something to bring one down.
     
  6. woodelf

    woodelf Bard Retired Moderator

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    Without reading 7 pages can you guys tell me what the plan is for ship scale? Obviously there is going to be some issues having tie fighters next to dreadnoughts on the screen. I can make most of the ships that Dual didn't make, but I don't know how detailed to get.
     
  7. Qdin

    Qdin Warlord

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    then don't :) I don't think we should start modelling or anything if we aren't even sure of the scales.. The buildings you do are great - keep them up ;)

    I've been fiddling with that exact same questions for almost a year now... How are we gonna make the sizes? HOW can we make it fit..?

    Is it actually possible to make a unit fill in several tiles..? This way it would be kinda easier to look at the scales, and the classes for them based on the size...

    any suggestions how we solve this measure-problem?
     
  8. NikNaks

    NikNaks Deity

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    I don't see why we couldn't start modelling if we didn't know scales. You can change that in XML...
     
  9. woodelf

    woodelf Bard Retired Moderator

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    With proper use of group sizes for fighters, maybe 5, and then smaller groups as the ship size goes up we might be okay.

    I'm still cranking out buildings, no worries. My problem is finding time to texture.
     
  10. Civmansam

    Civmansam King

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    Here's a first look at Darth Maul.
    I still have to retexture his face, it looks like a red blob right now.
    This model is based off my sith units and Chugginator's jedi units
     

    Attached Files:

  11. NikNaks

    NikNaks Deity

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    Awesome! :goodjob:
     
  12. woodelf

    woodelf Bard Retired Moderator

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    He looks good Civmansam.

    My only concern is that in the wide scheme of an entire Star Wars mod how important is he compared to other units? Unless the generic units are done or will be using placeholders? In that case a sprinkling of super Jedi is a good thing.
     
  13. Civmansam

    Civmansam King

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    That's a good point. I guess it's just fun making hero units, but I should probably concentrate on regular units. Gungans and battle droids will be hard because I'm not much of a model maker, but I could do some human units.
     
  14. zhardan

    zhardan Chieftain

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    Sorry, my english is very very poor but i will try explain what's is my opinion about how this mod should be classify the distincts class of units. If anyone know read spanish, in the final post there are the "translate" :p

    I think that the units of Starwars universe should be classify in 3 class:
    - Space Units: Only can attack other space units, bombard planets and transport other units.
    -Terrestrial units: Only can attack other terrestrial units and are the only units that can conquest planets.
    - Jedi units: Special units, a mix between spy, general and mage of FFII mods. They use "spells" to interact with the environment.

    If we bear in mind that the way of conquering a planet in different books of starwars always is the same:
    1. Destroy the planetary shields landing troops in the poles that it is where the shields are weaker. (if exists it)
    2. Spatial bombardment.
    3. Terrestrial occupation.

    I believe that the combat should be to orientated in this path. For example, allow that our planets could create buildings that allow the protection against spatial bombardments (up to annulling it if they are sufficiently powerful) depending on the technology or force to translate terrestrial units to conquest planet.

    The jedi utility in the game should be more in the style of "magicians" of FFII (any jedi could be beat a army, but if to avoid that assault, to distract(embezzle) it, better it, command it, etc ...). The jedis only should be able to be "killed" by other jedis that they had sufficient skill to detect it. There is presupposed that a jedi can escape of a normal individual always.

    The jedis experience should be rise with the time, althought that certain buildings of your civilization could be increase it. Too some searches (Temple exploration?), killing other unit jedi, etc..

    In short, the spaceships same as civilization ships.
    The terrestrial units continue like always.
    The jedis units, are special units, as the magicians of FFII but without possibility of attacking physically nobody who is not another jedi and using sorceries to interact with the environment.


    Spanish Version:

    En mi opinión, las unidades del universo de Starwars deberían dividirse en 3 categorias:
    - Unidades Espaciales: Solo pueden atacar a otras unidades espaciales,bombardear y trasladar unidades terrestres.
    - Unidades Terrestres: Solo pueden atacar a otras unidades terrestres y son las únicas que pueden conquistar planetas.
    - Unidades Jedis: Unidades especiales tipo espia y con "sortilegios estilo FFII" como si fueran magos.

    La forma de conquistar un planeta sacado de los distintos libros de starwars siempre es la misma.
    1. Destruir los escudos planetarios desembarcando tropas en los polos que es donde los escudos son más débiles.
    2. Bombardeo espacial.
    2. Ocupación terrestre.

    Solo ha existido un dispositivo capaz de atravesar un escudo desde el espacio y este fué la famosa estrella de la muerte.

    Creo que deberia orientarse el combate en ese sentido. Por ejemplo, permitir que nuestros planetas puedan crear edificios que permitan la protección
    contra bombardeos espaciales (hasta anularlo si son suficientemente potentes) dependiendo de la tecnologia.
    Cambiar el uso de los jedis más al estilo de "magos" de FFII (ningun jedi podria vencer a un ejercito, pero si evitar que ataque, distraerlo, potenciarlo, etc...).
    La experiencia de los jedis deberia subir con el tiempo, ciertos edificios de tu civilización, busquedas (exploración de templos/edificios especiales de tu civilización), etc..
    Los jedis solo deberían poder ser "matados" por otros jedis siempre que tuvieran habilidad suficiente para detectarlo. Se presupone que un jedi puede escapar de un individuo normal siempre.
    En resumen, las naves espaciales serian el equivalente a barcos.
    Las unidades terrestres siguen como siempre.
    Las unidades jedis son unidades especiales, como los magos de FFII pero sin posibilidad de atacar fisicamente a nadie que no sea otro jedi y utilizando sortilegios para interactuar con el entorno.



    Sorry for my bad english and good luck with the mod.
     
  15. Kissamies

    Kissamies Prince

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    I've made similar suggestion about the Force units earlier. Basically the Force units should work on the "epsionage plane" being only vulnerable to units that also work on that plane and they'd mainly do spy stuff. They could also work with military units by merging with them to give a special Force promotion, much like Great Generals can do. Could be tricky to code.

    Hero units are different, however. They should be more like regular military units and able to take part of regular combat. However, they should also be able to attack epsionage units.
     
  16. Qdin

    Qdin Warlord

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    I dunno...

    Regular units can kill Jedies too, ya know..
    At least in the Star Wars Universe ;P

    They shouldn't be allowed to be considered greatest powers or units of all times etc. just because they know about the force... They just have merrits - it doesn't mean they are invincible to other than their own...
     
  17. Civmansam

    Civmansam King

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    i think jedi should be like Qdin said, strong but not invicible. Maybe an jedi knight should be around strength 8. But I agree that Jedi should get espionage abilities
     
  18. Qdin

    Qdin Warlord

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    hm... I DO like the idea, though - of making them get XP over time until a certain level... But the strength? I guess it depends on the whole scale we're working with..
     
  19. thrallgor

    thrallgor Chieftain

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    Here's some promotions (check out force powers for more)
    Black Market Technology
    Blast
    Bribery
    Buzz Droids
    Cloaking Device
    Cluster Bomb
    Core Overload
    Corrupt Militia
    Corrupt Systems
    Create Dark Troopers
    Damage Increase
    Detect Enemy Stealth
    Drain Life
    Enemy System Control
    Force Attack
    Force Cloak
    Force Sight
    Full Salvo Attack
    Hack Death Star(Galactic conquest only)
    Hard Point Assault
    Intimidation
    Jam missiles
    Jedi Mind trick
    Kidnapping
    Launch Fighters At Will
    Orbital Bombardment
    Piracy
    Point Laser Defense System
    Prowl
    Proximity mine
    Purchase Black Market Technology
    Radioactive Contamination
    Racketeering
    Rally Strike
    Remote DetPacks
    Saber throw
    Sabotage
    Sabotage Ships
    Sensor scrambler
    Shield Flare
    Shield Leech
    Slavery
    Sonic Stunner
    Spread Corruption
    Stimpack
    Summon Rancor
    Superlaser
    Transport Infantry
    Weapon Swap
     
  20. woodelf

    woodelf Bard Retired Moderator

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    Almost been a year, but here's a ship I just made. Not sure if Dual made a Y-Wing or not. It'll be in the database once I export it.
     

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