Unit Limit Per Tile

[Afforess]

It seems that more people like the idea of a limited number of units per tile than I imagined. After the initial feedback, I'm considering these changes:

The limit only applies to your team. If the limit is 1 unit, it means 1 unit from each team can be on the tile. This should fix the problem where you can't attack a tile with too many units.

Defensive units (workers, settlers, etc...) are exempted from the limit and not counted.

Any other changes or additions along these lines you would like?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ick! I do not like this idea at all.

 

[Arakhor]

Those both seem like sensible ideas. I'm all for those in principle.

 

[Afforess]

Ick! I do not like this idea at all.

Neither do I; but it's purely optional, and already in 1.73.

 

[Hydromancerx]

As long as its optional (which most of your stuff is) then I don't care. ;p

 

[Killtech]

yeah, that should make it playable. thx for having the time to make changes for minorities. i'm really interested if the AI can deal with it properly.

ah yes. some minor things if you can do it without much work:
1.) transported units in cargo (on boats) should not be considered. i'm not sure if they are now
2.) if you can then new units should be placed at a neighboring tiles if a city is already full
3.) ships should be neglected when on a land tile (i.e. in a city or fort)

Ick! I do not like this idea at all.

Neither do I; but it's purely optional, and already in 1.73.

hmm... so what do you think about Civ5 then? isn't the limit = 1 there?

 

[Afforess]

yeah, that should make it playable. thx for having the time to make changes for minorities. i'm really interested if the AI can deal with it properly.

ah yes. some minor things if you can do it without much work:
1.) transported units in cargo (on boats) should not be considered. i'm not sure if they are now
2.) if you can then new units should be placed at a neighboring tiles if a city is already full
3.) ships should be neglected when on a land tile (i.e. in a city or fort)

1.) Good catch. I'll exempt them.
2.) Okay.
3.) Okay; units that have a different domain (air, land, sea) won't count against others. So only ships count towards a ships limit, planes against planes, land against land, etc...

I think the limit is silly in Civ5, and I plan on changing it (increasing it or removing it altogether)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

1.)I think the limit is silly in Civ5, and I plan on changing it (increasing it or removing it altogether)

Well it does all depend on what a unit is. If it is an army made up of spear men, chariots and archers who who work together in ways determined by your military technology/strategy/civics then it is a whole different ball game

 

[gramcrkr103]

The limit only applies to your team.

So my civilization will have a unit limit but an opposing civ wouldnt?

I like the "limited tile" idea both for tactics and to get ready for Civ5, but if it would only count for the human player then it seems like it would be quite a disadvantage

 

[Afforess]

So my civilization will have a unit limit but an opposing civ wouldnt?

I like the "limited tile" idea both for tactics and to get ready for Civ5, but if it would only count for the human player then it seems like it would be quite a disadvantage

No, to each team. Not just the human, but other team's units won't count against your limit.

Imagine 2 civ's. Each can have 1 unit on the same tile, but only 1 tile per team. Currently, having any unit, regardless of team, counts against everyone's limit.

 

[NBAfan]

hmm... so what do you think about Civ5 then? isn't the limit = 1 there?

Sounds like it could be a good idea. I will wait to see how it will work before I say any thing about it.

I think it is silly in Civ 4.

 

[Killtech]

I think the limit is silly in Civ5, and I plan on changing it (increasing it or removing it altogether)

well, i had my problems with it too. but it'll greatly change how wars look like and if the AI understands it it'll require more strategic (i won't be able to just block a huge AI stack with a few units like i can do it now). city sieges will be much more interesting and perhaps more realistic. i think it's at least worth a try. so that's what i was doing in my last game since you gave me the chance.

 

[gramcrkr103]

If the AI understands it this could be one of the best changes yet, since we all know that one of the weakest parts of Civilization series is that SoD's following each other and camping in cities isn't really fun.
If the AI understands it... Lately in my games the stacks have been mostly anti-air and maybe a few artillery, and very few actual conquering units. So they pretty much park themselves next to my cities as I whittle them down, so forgive me when I say I don't have much faith in the AI
Still an amazing game due to all the hard work thats in it though...

 

[Hydromancerx]

1.) Good catch. I'll exempt them.
I think the limit is silly in Civ5, and I plan on changing it (increasing it or removing it altogether)

I agree. Unless the scale of the game was greatly changed to where individual buildings took up more than one tile (thus making a city on the map huge), then I see no reason why units can't take up the same tile.

 

[Killtech]

I agree. Unless the scale of the game was greatly changed to where individual buildings took up more than one tile (thus making a city on the map huge), then I see no reason why units can't take up the same tile.

it leads to stack fighting which is not much fun and is quite poor in strategy.

 

[DRJ]

I think what the max/units lead to is that the AI still produces the same amount of units but has to divide them in as we germans called them in WW2 "Heeresgruppe Nord/Mitte/Süd" etc. which means Army-Group. So, if a AI attacks you and you dont have that many defenders, normally you would put them in the city let the stack of death try to attack it, it will lose most units, you are the winner. Now, the AI has three or more main stacks and surrounds you more or less and even "sees" if some cities in the back land aren't well defended and changes it's goal to them. Now you have to lower your frontlines cities defense to send some troops to the backland, that's why you either have to buy enough time to establish a new backwards defensive Army or you search for a open battle. However, the new AI tactics force the human to invenst more into the war than just to sit and wait. You even might have to lose something! You may get pillaged, or lose a city or two, although the number of AI units is still the same as it would be without the stack rule. Don'T forget AI gets bonusses, if you play with the "surround" custom game option like: AI stack=X; your city=O | XOX =+ 30%? battle chance... they have much better chances now against humans!

I like the max tile rule but would like to set it to 20/max units, 15 (which is max number now) is a bit low I think. All the other exceptions (as already have been written before) I think are good, too.

 

[Killtech]

another thing that changes: siege weapons don't do excessive harm to stacks anymore if there are no large stack possible. makes battles harder for humans who always have one or two sieges weapons to waste before their main force finishes the greatly weakened defenders. that's my main reason to dislike Civ4 large stacks: results in too easy winning!

 

[vincentz]

I love the idea, and always wanted it in civ4. It's too easy to waste a couple of siegeweapons or drop a couple of bombs on the AI's SoD, and then take them down 1 by 1. If the AI was forced to split its armies it would propably be more difficult to counter them=more fun doing battles.

 

[Iceciro]

Like most changes that fundamentally alter combat, my question is: Can you make the AI not ******** about it? I'd love to have multiple 10-stack armies coming in that I'd have to deal with on my own terms, but if the AI just sends in a 10-stack followed directly behind by a 10-stack, or worse, the stragglers it can't fit into the stack just marching along haphazardly waiting for something to die so they can take its place in the main stack, it won't provide any benefit at all.

Also, I might suggest that the limit be increased or removed in cities. Sorry, but defending should ALWAYS be easier than attacking, and then what? Oh no, your smaller stacks have to surround and get the bonuses from that? It's not like the city-stack can move.

 

[Galacticat42]

Few things:
A. Love the idea but is there a file where we can change the limit?
B. This'll have polarizing effects for the AI, either they'll over produce units and get stuck not realizing it. For example the AI stations an Infantry on a hill which also happens to be a 1 tile isthmus. They can't move their army to the neighbor they declared war on without extra AI programming to move the stationed unit accordingly.

They could be forced to take advantage of the Surround and Destroy mod without realizing it.

Also, what about coastal boats? I read you exempted land units from the limit when stacking into a boat, but what about the boats themselves? In the early ages you'd have to either declare war on everyone with a boat just to explore or just be non-exploratory. Are submarines exempt?