Unit Pack Preview: Ages of Oppression

[Dom Pedro II]

if its mainlly supposed to represent the eras after 1000 CE< why include egypt and rome at all; after all, both fo the nations had some laws agiasnt it, and it was certinalyl a cultural no-no to treat your slaves badlly when they did not diserve it (the excpetion beign witht he Roman gladiatorial schools, but seeing as even free men woudl join these, obviouslly, that hell was worth it in the end)not to mention a long standing tradition in all med sea cultures to have munission; eg; letting slaves earn limited incomes to buy thier freedom, or letting slaves go for good work, or upon the death of th eowner, agian, as a reward for loyal work; compared to later ages, the life of a Roman, Greek, or egyptian slave was better then the condtions faced by most everyone in fth eold world, but particuraley the peasentry in europe...

Well, I meant the Trans-Saharan set represents the time after 1000 CE, not the pack as a whole.

And yes, I know that their lives were comparably better... but that was often only for domestic slaves. I mean, look at the helots under the Spartans. They were slaughtered in droves every year to make sure the majority stayed in line! The Romans used plenty of slaves in mines, etc. that certainly could not look forward to much of a chance of getting out of manual labor. And as we know, the Egyptians weren't too keen to let the Hebrews just go on their way...


EDIT: How is a Gladiator unit supposed to be actually used in game???

 

[nameless53]

just like captured workers in "aztec mods" ect.


SACRAFICED for culture.

they provide "entertainment" with their lives.. peeps come to see...

like "people flocking to universities and great libraries" as the culture advisor would somehow state.


AND THANKYOU DOM FOR YOUR HELP!
THE TECH TREE IS COMPLETE!

i just need to write all the stuff in it.. (civpedia...)

 

[Xen]

The spartans were bastards, thyer an exception to almost everything

as for Roman slavery, yes thier was a good deal of "industrial" slavery, none can deny that; but the vast majority of slaves were villa, and private household slaves

as for the Egyptians; I've never seen real evidence for thier being a mass slavery fo the israleites, outside the bible, which, whiekl a valuble historicle document, is always suspect as a resource; seesm to me that teh hebrews were *****ign about, along with the res tof the assorted tribes that made up the Hyksos that conqoured upper egypt, being forced out at spearpoint.

as for the gladiators; i suppose that insead fo the roman soldires enslaving workers, they themselves can handle road builind (possibly the single most important worker fuinction), ad fortifying, while, being able to enslave units who pop-out as gladiators; alternatelly, you coudl have a cooloseum wonder produce gladiators, or even have a "slave resource" (IIRC, the resources for "fallout" have a man as a resource; it would be good for such a purpose as a slave resource I suppose0

 

[Dom Pedro II]

The spartans were bastards, thyer an exception to almost everything

as for Roman slavery, yes thier was a good deal of "industrial" slavery, none can deny that; but the vast majority of slaves were villa, and private household slaves

as for the Egyptians; I've never seen real evidence for thier being a mass slavery fo the israleites, outside the bible, which, whiekl a valuble historicle document, is always suspect as a resource; seesm to me that teh hebrews were *****ign about, along with the res tof the assorted tribes that made up the Hyksos that conqoured upper egypt, being forced out at spearpoint.

as for the gladiators; i suppose that insead fo the roman soldires enslaving workers, they themselves can handle road builind (possibly the single most important worker fuinction), ad fortifying, while, being able to enslave units who pop-out as gladiators; alternatelly, you coudl have a cooloseum wonder produce gladiators, or even have a "slave resource" (IIRC, the resources for "fallout" have a man as a resource; it would be good for such a purpose as a slave resource I suppose0

Well, I still don't see how a gladiator could actually be useful in a scenario or mod... It's used for entertainment purposes. It'd almost be better as a city improvement. I mean, they didn't use Gladiators for war really, they certainly wouldn't have wasted them on manual labor... and beyond that, they really have no function in Civ3 terms. Similarly, villa slaves, while being the dominant population of slaves, are inherently useless in Civ3 as units... and so we are only left with the industrial slaves.

As for the Hebrews, while that may be true that there was no mass enslavement of the Hebrews, it might still be useful for someone making a Biblical mod. But hey! If you want me to leave them out... and do less work... I'm more than willing!

 

[Xen]

sure, leave them out, so you make room for a samnite style gladiator (one has to admit, it woudl still be neat to look at, all the more so as it can double very nicelly as an "adventurer/mercenary" unit for the civs that are (and lets face it, just about every fantasy series has at least one of them) base don either Greece or Rome

 

[Dom Pedro II]

*sigh* what would said gladiator look like?

 

[Xen]

nevermind it actually, although they do look cool, I'm currentlly forumulateing a better request to make, somthign that could go distinctlyl well with soem fo the other projects runnign about...

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Okay....... well, if it doesn't go distinctly well with this project, post it in my previews thread...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Actually its pretty much a historical fact that the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews...I saw it on the History Channel afterall.

But as to if Dom Pedro should do a Hebrew Slave...I couldn't care less...he can do what he wants to do. He already put out the African units...and I'm happy...

 

[Xen]

Actually its pretty much a historical fact that the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews...I saw it on the History Channel afterall.

But as to if Dom Pedro should do a Hebrew Slave...I couldn't care less...he can do what he wants to do. He already put out the African units...and I'm happy...

actually, its pretty much a distinct fact that half of what the history channel shows are progrmas about biblicle history; or history as recorded by the bible, but not necessarily true

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Ah...but the History Channel also has those Roman Battle Simulations now doesn't it...

Besides...the special I saw was called the Pharoahs of Egypt..and it wasn't a biblical special..it mentioned Hebrew slaves during the reign of Pharoah Ramses II(Who was also the Pharoah of the book of Exodus more than likely). Whether or not the events of Exodus are true is another topic, but the Egyptians certainly kept Hebrew slaves...as well as others at one point.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Slaves in Egypt were simply domestic servants. They were far too expensive and valuable to be wasted on large building projects. There is no record of the Egyptians using slaves to build monuments and it has been found that the builders were always simply conscripted peasants that were well-fed and taken care of by the Pharaoh and his government.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I've read this as well. So probably then it'd be better not to have Hebrew slaves then because they wouldn't have been doing the manual labor of road construction, fort-building, irrigation, etc.

 

[NateDawgNY]

While there may be little evidence for Hebrew enslavement in Egypt, it does not mean that it did not happen.

Think about it for a sec, you're compiling your nation's history, why would you invent a story about being slaves? It's definitely not the hallmark of a great and glorious nation, but rather a dark page in it's history. Why would you transcribe such a thing if it were not true?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Self-pity?

Seriously though, I've never really heard it disputed before that the Hebrews were indeed enslaved for a period by the Egyptians... but the scope is somewhat in dispute.

 

[Louis XXIV]

From what I've heard Egyptian Slaves were almost like everyone else, although I believe someone did own them. The thing you have to remember is the Pharaoh owned everybody, so a slave's life was similar to everyone elses life. They were allowed to own land and farm, iirc, but, of course, they would have to pay taxes on what they grew.

 

[gorn]

I love Oppression!

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

of coarse you do gorn, your from the evil Gorn Empire...