Unit Requests: Steampunk

[Blue Monkey]

(Y'know, with the blade, she kinda looks like an ex-girlfriend...)

One of my favorite films of "Alice" is the 1933 version (Gary Cooper + White Knight, W. C. Fields = Humpty Dumpty, Cary Grant = Mock Turtle, etc.). Far more surreal imho than Burton's. There's a big banquet scene in which the pudding yells at her for trying to slice it. That's what the knife reminds of. Couldn't find a picture with the pudding.

Spoiler :

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Ok, here's (hopefully) the final version of Alice:



I've decided to have her dual-wielding, and I made the adjustments you requested.

Just one question before I start animating: Is her dress supposed to be civ-colored or not? If not, then it's gonna cost you extra!

If there's nothing else you need/want changed, I'll start animating her this weekend....

....Although after all the changes/modifications I've had to make on this unit, I've been half-tempted to say "bugger it" and do the Studio CLAMP version of Alice.

Also, if I dialed up the effect I used to create the shimmer in the mirror version, it also makes an interesting "warp gate" effect:

 

[Takhisis]

Maybe a bit too… chesty? (I never thought I'd complain about that in a girl)

 

[Kyriakos]

Isnt Alice supposed to be a small girl?
:/

 

[tom2050]

Cool FX with the mirror!

 

[Balthasar]

Your Alice looks great, Hikaro. The smaller bust makes her seem to stand straighter, I think. Since she's got to carry the mallet, she might keep the blade under her skirts until needed. I think she would carry the mallet as one carries a baseball bat, i.e., rested on her shoulder. Can't wait for the next set of previews.

The mirror looks awesome. Can't wait for that, either.


Hi Tom: You'll be glad to know that your technician has made it onto the unit list, replacing a less-interesting version of the Ion Cannon in Era 4. It's a natural Steampunk unit. Any chance of a progress report on the Thark, etc.?

 

[tom2050]

Any chance of a progress report on the Thark, etc.?

I had a bit of trouble on working the 2nd set of arms to get them set up properly; I am not very familiar with 3ds Skins; and so I have just been twiddling about with it every now and then; as I was getting frustrated. But I have figured out what was the problem just recently; which will allow me to properly place and animate the 2nd set of arms (mostly done), and I can properly rebuild the shoulder mesh into the body. The other one, although it looked fine in a still frame (which I setup to make it look fine), ended up having too many issues even for a civ scale unit, had gaping holes in the mesh, and couldn't be animated properly. I have since gotten that figured out; Part of the learning curve I suppose.

The Banth (and Chaos Hydra) just happened to work out where it didn't need any of that, because the original Lion body didn't twist in a way that made it necessary to do much. I pretty much just cloned the whole unit, made everything except the legs transparent, and it worked.

 

[Balthasar]

Part of the learning curve I suppose.

That's what I like about you, Tom; you're the Flying Tomato of learning curves. Glad it's working out & look forward to the previews!

 

[tom2050]

I haven't animated the 2nd set of arms on this, so they just hang there... and there is still alot to do, but at least the arms work now and I can animate them properly.

EDIT:

I haven't tweaked anything at this point, I'm still reshaping the head, and then I need to adjust the textures to match (and get rid of the mutant radioactive green stripes on him), paint some of the leather straps / cloth that they often wear in pics; center it, adjust lighting, blah blah. But at least he is working.

Once I get a basic version done, then it will be easy to do as many as you need (different weapons, armor, w/e, color) since everything will be setup and ready to go.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Isnt Alice supposed to be a small girl?
:/

Helps to read the unit description.

Alice

We are looking for a matured Alice. one that is no longer naive - but neither should her experiences have deranged her. An Alice comfortable with life down a rabbit hole & competent to deal in looking-glass politics. Think Trinity in a pinafore.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Okay, first things first, I never said that I'd do the mirror... as you can see, if I converted it to a civ-palette, it would have MAJOR transparency issues and would require a LOT of time to straighten it out... Ditto goes for Alice: If I can't get her to hold the mallet like you want with merely adjusting two or three joint parameters, then she's going as-is: I already have an entire animation set that works with her current configuration and I've already diverted about as much time from my other projects into this as I'm willing to do. Initially I hoped this would be merely "change the hair and 1 or 2 items on my Girl Warrior unit and be done with it" and it has already dragged out for twice as long as I had intended it. Basically, you're entering into "take it or leave it" territory as far as this unit is concerned.

I'm fairly flexible, but even I have my limits: After all, I think you'll note that I did not approve of the whole "Lunar/Martian/other wacky civs" direction that the Steampunk mod took, and that is also why I've decided to mainly support King Arthur's "Warlords of the Air" mod, which is closer to what I had in mind with a Steampunk mod initially anyways, and I'd like to get back to my main projects.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Well, looks like you're in luck:



I WAS able to get the mallet on her shoulder with a few minor adjustments....

As for the knife, having her pull it would require entirely too much time and effort to get it looking even halfways decent, so she's just going to keep it in her off hand (I've had 0 luck with animations that involved drawing something out of something else, so sorry, that is not negotiable)....

If you don't have any last-minute gripes, I'll start animating her tomorrow. (My Poser computer is booked for rendering a unit tonight)....

 

[Balthasar]

It was not my intention to annoy you, Hikaro. If it's any consolation, I've enjoyed working on the new Alice unit with you, and you have my full support to render her as is; it looks great.

As for the 'wacky civs' thing: I can see your point, and I have in fact been working on an 1800's London Map (like my Manhattan map) to take advantage of the SP units in a future mod which will use the tech tree from this mod with minor modifications.

On the other hand, the concept for the Lost Worlds mod has generated a lot of attention, and a ton of units that will be handy in other mods long after this one is put to bed. I wouldn't have missed Plotinus' Cthulhu or Supa's Apatosaurus or Tom's ever-growing line of Barsoom units for the world. And I for one have quintupled my own knowledge about 19th century literature - the origins of Sci-Fi and Fantasy literature in that era in particular - and the works of Verne, Burroughs, Wells and others, including a crash course in Gothic Romances and the Bronte sisters thrown in for good measure. Without this mod, I'd have never learned about the Vril, the Cthulhu, or the rich culture of Barsoom. In this case, it really has been the journey and not the destination that has been most important in retrospect, and I don't regret a second of it. I just hope the mod will sufficiently reflect the work that has been put into it.

Again, I apologize if you've found the last few days aggravating or frustrating. I love the Alice you've built, and look forward to seeing her fully animated. You're one of the most talented unit makers here Hikaro, and you produce unique, versatile and interesting units. While I still hold out hope that one day you'll make a Gogo Yubari, I look forward to all of your future works with fascinated anticipation.

PS: so how do we get that mirror into flc form?

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

As for the 'wacky civs' thing: I can see your point, and I have in fact been working on an 1800's London Map (like my Manhattan map) to take advantage of the SP units in a future mod which will use the tech tree from this mod with minor modifications.

Something sorta like a victorian era version of the Super Civ scenario?

I'm sorry I got kinda testy... I've spent a significant part of today (when not spending time with my family) working on a certain king unit for the Final Fantasy mod that I started over a year ago, only to, after spending hours getting the animations done, only to keep finding one more piddly thing that needed fixing, so I had to go and edit every single animation over again... It takes almost 5 minutes for Poser to open a typical unit file on my computer.

...and this is on top of having someone run into the tree in front of our house at 4AM this morning. Thankfully, he wasn't hurt bad and he barely missed our vehicles in the driveway, but still....

I may yet get around to working on the "Portal Flash" version of the mirror, but it will take a while... In order for it to be used as a unit, you need a proper unit pallette, convert it into a storyboard somehow, and (if you don't want it looking like crap in-game) some way to make it so that it doesn't have transparent pixels on the mirror body in the final version... I have the ways and means to make all that happen, but the problem is finding a time slot in my unit making schedule.

Also, I do agree that the Lost Worlds has had some side benefits: I never heard of the Barsoom chronicles until it came out (I read Tarzan of the Apes in school, and never particularly felt any overriding desire to read any more of Burroughs works), and like I said, it was thanks to this scenario that I was able to get the reference/joke in Eric Flint/Ryk E. Spoor's book Boundary... I.e. they named the Mars Lander John Carter and the crew dubbed the rover Thoat (and one of said crew made a comment about how he'd rather ride Dejah Thoris, which 99.9% of the male population probably agreed with).

 

[Balthasar]

Yah, all that Barsoom knowledge will come in handy until Pixar releases John Carter of Mars sometime next year. After that, it won't be such a big deal to have heard of it I guess. Still, it's a point of pride that we started working on Barsoom before Pixar announced that they were making the movie. I'm also planning a Barsoom stand-alone mod after Lost Worlds is finished; if we can get Lost Worlds done soon enough, we might beat Pixar to completion!

Sounds like you had a long, busy day. Happy Thanksgiving, Hikaro....and everybody.

 

[tom2050]

Here is Thark with 1 curved blade (seems common among the pics).



Do you want an unarmed (hand-to-hand combat) Thark? Some pics show a sword in every hand. I can't remember exactly what the weaponry types you wanted.

- Swords (if you want 1-hand/2-hand/4-hand versions? let me know)
- Barsoomian Ray Gun or w/e it is called?
- multiples of any weapons you list is fine
- ?

I guess his underpants can be civ-colored. Or as some pics show, they wear bands on their arms, wrists, and they have some chest straps (haven't added yet). Perhaps the wrist or arm bands might work best.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Working Relationships

Basically, you're entering into "take it or leave it" territory as far as this unit is concerned.

I'm fairly flexible, but even I have my limits...

... and I'd like to get back to my main projects.

It was not my intention to annoy you, Hikaro. If it's any consolation, I've enjoyed working on the new Alice unit with you, and you have my full support to render her as is; it looks great.

Speaking for myself, I try to make it clear that when I get into detailed requests that's all they are. Requests. That goes for every request posted by me. I'm sure both Balthasar and KingArthur agree with the spirit of that in a general way, even if we have strong feelings - including differences of opinion - about what is needed to make a particular unit useful. Furthermore, there's no reason for anyone to ever sacrifice the creative work that it is closest to their heart. There'd be no serendipity. Such discussions are one of the reasons we have a private forum:

Spoiler :

A discussion from Jan. 2009:

Here's my current unit to-do list:

Chocobo units (Chocobo Rider, Chocobo Cavalry Chocobo Dragoon)

Five units from now!?? I don't think I'll hold my breath real hard. I'll write him; maybe I can get us moved up behind the Chocobos.

Use some Bartitsu. Don't know what you have in mind for Barsoomian cavalry...



Amazing what you find when you are looking for pictures of Deja Thoris with at least some clothes on.

Oh, no. Don't let Hikaro see those...

Too late...{n.b.: take that part of the exchange humorously} I hoped maybe to encourage him with the thought that his units might see use beyond his own mod. I didn't say that directly - just mumbled something about a Busman's Holiday.

Potential Scenarios

... I think you'll note that I did not approve of the whole "Lunar/Martian/other wacky civs" direction that the Steampunk mod took, and that is also why I've decided to mainly support King Arthur's "Warlords of the Air" mod, which is closer to what I had in mind with a Steampunk mod initially anyways, ...

As for the 'wacky civs' thing: I can see your point, and I have in fact been working on an 1800's London Map (like my Manhattan map) to take advantage of the SP units in a future mod which will use the tech tree from this mod with minor modifications.

On the other hand, the concept for the Lost Worlds mod has generated a lot of attention, and a ton of units that will be handy in other mods long after this one is put to bed.

I'm also planning a Barsoom stand-alone mod after Lost Worlds is finished; ...

"The Hollow Earth" and "Sceptre & Orbs" have also been mentioned publicly. Both of those scenarios will require use of the various extensions to the editor people have made in order to see the light of day. And other scenarios are in some early stage of discussion/development as well but not yet ready for public discussion. We need serendipitous discovery from all of the community's creative effort.

Working Relationships Redux

I may yet get around to working on the "Portal Flash" version of the mirror, but it will take a while... In order for it to be used as a unit, you need a proper unit pallette, convert it into a storyboard somehow, and (if you don't want it looking like crap in-game) some way to make it so that it doesn't have transparent pixels on the mirror body in the final version... I have the ways and means to make all that happen, but the problem is finding a time slot in my unit making schedule.

Just as you turned my static bmp into an animated flic, there's bound to be help available from someone experienced in palette issues.

I can't remember exactly what the weaponry types you wanted.

- Swords (if you want 1-hand/2-hand/4-hand versions? let me know)
- Barsoomian Ray Gun or w/e it is called?
- multiples of any weapons you list is fine
- ?

I guess his underpants can be civ-colored. Or as some pics show, they wear bands on their arms, wrists, and they have some chest straps (haven't added yet). Perhaps the wrist or arm bands might work best.

Taking a quick look at the thark gallery we posted I see both single & multiple weapons used. for the later there are pictures with 2 swords, sword & spear, sword & gun... Ideally (see above for what that means) having more than one thark would be nice. Note that the thark firearm prominently displayed in the gallery is a musket or rifle. Maybe a large muzzle flash could let it be interpreted as either a projectile or an energy weapon.

don't know how well it would show at game scale, but as described in the novel circular medallions are worn on the chest straps as honors for particular accomplishments as well as affiliations. Maybe a place for civ-colored circle(s).

 

[KingArthur]

Tharktastic tom!
Until Balth shows up I agree with Blue regarding the rifle - the characteristics of those rifles are that they are very long barreled and can fire 100 rounds of "radium" bullets before requiring reloading - the bullets behave similarly to refined phosphorous and reacte with atmospheric oxygen. So not really an energy weapon as such but a large muzzle flash might be appropriate.

It would also be nice to see a pistol and sword combo and one with 4 swords to represent an elite warrior.

 

[KingArthur]

Alice looks smashing Hikaro.

"Warlords of the Air" is Ozy's project though, not mine.

 

[Balthasar]

Sorry I've been out...

The Thark looks great so far, Tom! Do remember that he is half again taller than a regular unit - they're fifteen feet tall in the books, but I think something just taller (like your Titans) would be better in Civ scale - that he has small bright white tusks at his jawline, and that he is olive green. He wears no pants, possibly leather straps in an X across his chest and a belt. His head is a little larger in proportion to his body than human heads are, and has large protruding eyes. A female looks the same, except has 4 breasts, almost no tusks, maybe hoop earrings.

Weapons

I think it would be easiest to imagine that Tharks reward higher rank with better weapons, thus:

Home Guard = female with knife
Worker = none
Settler = none

Than = warrior = Axe
Kadar = Guard = Spear
Torthan* = Corporal = Barbed club + either above
Barthan* = Sergeant = Sword + plus any above
Thanwar* = Top Sergeant = Axe, Mace, + any above
Padwar 1 = 1st Lieutenant = Radium Pistol, Sword + any above
Dwar = Captain = Radium Rifle + any above

We won't need separate officers beyond captain, and if we did, they would be a Dwar unit with the ability to "see" farther, reflecting battlefield awareness.

Not included on this list is a Thoat Rider (when we get a Thoat). At some point a Jeddack (king) unit could be made.

I agree with everyone else as well. I like King Arthur's idea of an 'elite' Swordmaster..

Spoiler :

While I was researching this, I found an interview with the Swordmaster for the John Carter movie. In the comments section, someone wrote: "Somebody asks you what you do and you say, 'I'm a Swordmaster.' How cool is that?"

*These unit names are my invention. They are as true to the barsoom universe as I could make them, using the Barsoom Glossary and a Barsoom Lexicon. I can explain elsewhere how these names were arrived at, if anyone is interested.